Libyan Rebels Recognized as Countries Government, and gets 30billionUSD

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#1
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/16/world/africa/16libya.html?pagewanted=all


ISTANBUL — The United States formally recognized the rebel leadership in Libya as the country’s legitimate government on Friday, allowing the rebel government access to $30 billion in Libyan assets held in the United States. It is not yet clear how and when the money would be released.



The war is still taking place, however this could be a big boost for the rebels who want to be freed from Gaddafis regime.
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Last edited by JimmyBanks6 at Jul 17, 2011,
#2
Alright, what the hell.

I'm not against foreign aid, and I've kept an eye on the situation in Libya as I want to know how it ends, but given what's looming for us on August 2nd, now isn't really the time for us to give other countries tens of billions of dollars.
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

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#4
Quote by necrosis1193
Alright, what the hell.

I'm not against foreign aid, and I've kept an eye on the situation in Libya as I want to know how it ends, but given what's looming for us on August 2nd, now isn't really the time for us to give other countries tens of billions of dollars.

uhm its libyan owned assets, it was never the americans money
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#5
Quote by JimmyBanks6
uhm its libyan owned assets, it was never the americans to own


This is why you shouldn't read news articles ten minutes after getting up.
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#6
You might think this is good, but is it really?
The rebels are terribly unorganised. I'm not sure if they can handle this.
#8
Quote by SG_dave
Link doesn't work for me.

should work now
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Quote by jimmyled
jimmybanks youre a genius.


aparently i ar smrt?
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GO SENS GO
#9
no-one even knows what the rebels want, they aren't a coherent organised force. even if they do win, which seems inevitable, do they have the capacity or structure to lead? they don't have a leader or even a figurehead at the moment, i predict a lot of infighting when the rebels eventually win
#11
Quote by michal23
Nothing more than US imperialist bullshit.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said at an international gathering held to discuss the Libyan conflict that Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s government no longer had any legitimacy, and that the United States would join more than 30 countries in extending diplomatic recognition to the main opposition group, known as the Transitional National Council.

Yeah totally.
#12
Quote by Dirge Humani
Yeah totally.


I don't see your point. It's pretty obvious other Western countries would support it. Same thing as Iraq & Afghanistan, really.
#16
Quote by Dirge Humani
Except that news story is talking about British companies.


And as we all know British companies operate solely in Britain, right?

EDIT: Besides, I mostly chose it as an example of the reality of what wars and shit like in the OP are done over. There is nothing in the USA's or any other of the countries' actions that has been done out of goodwill and a moral concern for the poor citizens of Libya. They don't give a **** about the Libyans living under Gadaffi's rule. Anyway, I'll stop hijacking the thread.
Last edited by michal23 at Jul 17, 2011,
#18
Quote by Dirge Humani
So anything any company in the world does wrong is America's fault, and is a result of 'American Imperialism', because they operate in America too?


No, but to claim that America had no interest in Iraqi oil is naive and wrong.
#19
Quote by JimmyBanks6
should work now


Cheers.

I see what they're getting at with the legitimacy of the government.
I haven't heard a lot of what's happening in Libya since the initial news coverage so am unaware of what exact hold either this TNC or Gaddafi have over Libya.

I just wonder whether they're going to hold onto these assets until the TNC have finally thrown Gaddafi out, and what if they don't and he assumes direct control again? They're forced to hand it back to him, but how exactly would that go down
#20
Quote by MadClownDisease
Why do we think the rebels are going to be any better than Gaddafi?

So rather than supporting a despot we now support a general?

That's the worry, isn't it?

The rebellion still doesn't have any clear leader, and we have no idea who could take over if and when Gadaffi buggers off or gets killed.

However, I'm all for revolution and all that jazz. I'm gonna go find my Che beret.

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#22
Quote by chud123
mujahideen

anyone?

anyone?


buller?


What the hell is buller? And what does Mujahideen have to with this?

If you're trying to make the point that the country might fall into the hands of extremist Muslims, just say it. It's a somewhat possible outcome.

However, I doubt it. Unless Libyan assets are given back before a proper leader is found. I think we should hold onto the money until a clear and outlined government is formed. Giving this money back to a group which is still trying to find a leader seems like a foolish thing to do.
#23
Seems likely that it will be a gradual process of unfreezing, no?
#24
Quote by necrosis1193
Alright, what the hell.

I'm not against foreign aid, and I've kept an eye on the situation in Libya as I want to know how it ends, but given what's looming for us on August 2nd, now isn't really the time for us to give other countries tens of billions of dollars.



It's Libyan money. They are giving the rebels Qaddafi's money essentially.
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that'd be slightly creepy if i didn't find it so amusing.
#25
He meant "Buehler." As in Ferris Buehler. 3.5 Billion of the 30 Billion is liquid right now, the rest is mostly in property. I think funds will be released with the understanding that they be committed to finishing of Qaddafi and setting up some civil services until a legitimate election can be held and an effective government established.
#26
i didnt mean mujahideen in the sense muslim extremists are going to take over. im just pointing out that --- in the 70s the u.s backed a rebel group and it turned out a certain way (not good? :P) and now the u.s are backing another rebel group.

we dont really know a lot about them, certainly not enough to hand over 30billion
#27
Quote by abdulalhazred
It's Libyan money. They are giving the rebels Qaddafi's money essentially.

It's also a pretty big political move. They're taking real action specifically against Gaddafi, as opposed to just speaking out against him or taking action to 'protect the people' (even if that hapens to include bombing Gaddafi's HQ). Call it semantics if you will, but IMO it's an important move nevertheless.

On a vaguely connected side note, did you know that General Motors last year made a bigger profit than the 37 poorest African countries put together?

Food for thought.
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#28
Quote by chud123
i didnt mean mujahideen in the sense muslim extremists are going to take over. im just pointing out that --- in the 70s the u.s backed a rebel group and it turned out a certain way (not good? :P) and now the u.s are backing another rebel group.

we dont really know a lot about them, certainly not enough to hand over 30billion



We'd be dealing with Al Qaeda whether we supported them or not. The Russians were going to lose no matter what and Bin Laden's hatred for America has nothing to do with its involvement in The Aghan/Soviet war. Check out The Looming Tower if you want a really good well researched book on Bin Laden and Al Qaeda
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Quote by GoldenRose94

that'd be slightly creepy if i didn't find it so amusing.
Last edited by abdulalhazred at Jul 17, 2011,
#29
Quote by magnus_maximus
@ Americans reading this and going

"WTF why we giving dem our moneiz?!?!11"

or

"y we interferings?!?!11"

It's their money that America was holding and has now been released back to them.

Good on the US, good on the rebels.

It's not that simple in the slightest. They people holding this money and have made a moral and political decision to fund the rebels.

Yes it is Libyan money, but to declare the rebels the rightful leaders of Libya before their victory, or before they instigate or even suggest an alternative system of government, is very short sighted and very much simply funding a war against Gaddafi.

To allow a political movement that seems to be almost entirely militarily focused access to $30billion is a very short sighted strategy.

EDIT: also i should mention I'm not American, I was not responding to that accusation.
#31
Quote by Spartan101400
Wow, what a bullshit move by the US, not to mention that US involvement in Libya is unnecessary and a waste of time.


Ha, nice edit. Just out of curiosity, how is involvement in Libya a waste of time?
#32
France did this even before the war started. As in, before NATO etc started bombing Libya.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#33
Quote by crimsonblood12
Ha, nice edit. Just out of curiosity, how is involvement in Libya a waste of time?


I'm a hardcore isolationist, anytime America goes into another countries affairs that will have no significant impact on our country, I bitch about it. I think the US should keep their nose out of everyone else's business and focus on the problems we have here at home.
#34
Quote by Spartan101400
I think the US should keep their nose out of everyone else's business and focus on the problems we have here at home.


Like isolationists?
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Quote by GoldenRose94

that'd be slightly creepy if i didn't find it so amusing.
#36
Quote by Spartan101400
Precisely, good sir.

I think you misunderstood the question. Either that or you just have an extremely confusing way of arguing.

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#37
I don't really see much of a problem with this. So long as it's not "Ok, here are your assets... also, out of interest, would you like to buy these guns". Best case scenario, the money is distributed in the form of medical and reconstructive aid.
#39
Quote by magnus_maximus
@ Americans reading this and going

"WTF why we giving dem our moneiz?!?!11"

or

"y we interferings?!?!11"

It's their money that America was holding and has now been released back to them.

Good on the US, good on the rebels.


This! It seems like some people here just want to hate on America for the sake of it.
#40
Quote by MadClownDisease
It's not that simple in the slightest. They people holding this money and have made a moral and political decision to fund the rebels.

Yes it is Libyan money, but to declare the rebels the rightful leaders of Libya before their victory, or before they instigate or even suggest an alternative system of government, is very short sighted and very much simply funding a war against Gaddafi.

To allow a political movement that seems to be almost entirely militarily focused access to $30billion is a very short sighted strategy.

EDIT: also i should mention I'm not American, I was not responding to that accusation.

America has been gradual in recognising the Libyan rebels. Even if this is a hasty decision (I don't have the information to make such a judgement) the Americans most likely do not perceive this move as short sighted. The American Government is superb for gathering intelligence and, as previously stated, have been gradual in recognising the rebels. Even if they are being hasty, they'll most likely be able to justify to themselves why it's not.

We can judge for ourselves once they've declassified or have a bunch of papers leaked
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