#1
lol so far this is the most confusing thing about music theory, which diatonic traids, i know what there for andwhy use them of course, cause it shows how to be in key when making a song. i even get the fourmla for a major diatonic traid

1.major
2.minor
3.minor
4 major
5. minor
6. minor
7. dimished
8. major (same traid as the first one)

but i just dont get how some can be major and some can be diminshed and some are minor it just confuses me cause each of them use different half steps. for example


C-E-G use uses a major 3rd and a perfect 5th
while D-F-A use a minor 3rd and a perfect 5th, shouldnt The one with D-F-A, be D-F#-A? since they would use the same half steps
#2
5. is major


I'm not sure where you're confusion is with with the D-F-A thing. D-F-A is a minor 3rd and perfect 5th, hence minor. If by "same-half steps" you mean the formula used in the C-E-G example, using the same half steps starting with D, making D-F#-A would make D major.
Last edited by Macabre_Turtle at Jul 18, 2011,
#3
Quote by harvestkingx
lol so far this is the most confusing thing about music theory, which diatonic traids, i know what there for andwhy use them of course, cause it shows how to be in key when making a song. i even get the fourmla for a major diatonic traid

1.major
2.minor
3.minor
4 major
5. minor
6. minor
7. dimished
8. major (same traid as the first one)

but i just dont get how some can be major and some can be diminshed and some are minor it just confuses me cause each of them use different half steps. for example


C-E-G use uses a major 3rd and a perfect 5th
while D-F-A use a minor 3rd and a perfect 5th, shouldnt The one with D-F-A, be D-F#-A? since they would use the same half steps



You have to understand that with purely diatonic chords, all chord tones are within the scale.

So, when you have a C scale, you have:
C D E F G A B C

when you have a chord with a root on D, the chord would be be spelled D F A because it is only allowed to contain notes from the scale itself. It can't be D F# A because there is no F# in the C major scale.

Diatonic chords are not just built from roots that are in the scale, but must also only contain notes from the scale itself.

Does that clarify?
#4
I'm not really sure what you're asking... .

The diatonic triads are found by harmonizing the major (or minor) scale. In F:

F G A Bb C D E

Starting at each possible root, you can find it's third and fifth. So:

F: F A C
Gm: G Bb D
Am: A C E
Bb: Bb D F
C: C E G
Dm: D F A
E*: E G Bb

Hope that shed a little light on your predicament; again, I can't decipher exactly what you're asking, please try to be more clear in your follow-up.

EDIT: I should've known the post would be difficult to read when the thread starts with 'lol.'
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
Last edited by soviet_ska at Jul 18, 2011,
#5
Quote by nmitchell076
You have to understand that with purely diatonic chords, all chord tones are within the scale.

So, when you have a C scale, you have:
C D E F G A B C

when you have a chord with a root on D, the chord would be be spelled D F A because it is only allowed to contain notes from the scale itself. It can't be D F# A because there is no F# in the C major scale.

Diatonic chords are not just built from roots that are in the scale, but must also only contain notes from the scale itself.

Does that clarify?



You excalty answered what i was asking. Thank you cant believe i missed that lol.
#6
C-E-G use uses a major 3rd and a perfect 5th
while D-F-A use a minor 3rd and a perfect 5th, shouldnt The one with D-F-A, be D-F#-A? since they would use the same half steps


Yes, but then it wouldnt be diatonic. diatonic means it is using ONLY notes from the key.
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#7
Ahh, so THAT'S why each note in a scale has a certain major/minor/dim affiliation to it, thank you nmitchell


But what happens if you then "break" those rules? E.g playing a D major chord in the key of C, what, if anything, would that affect?

Thank you
#8
Quote by Mausmaus
But what happens if you then "break" those rules? E.g playing a D major chord in the key of C, what, if anything, would that affect?


Then you would be playing non-diatonically; try it out and see what it sounds like.
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#9
Quote by Mausmaus
Ahh, so THAT'S why each note in a scale has a certain major/minor/dim affiliation to it, thank you nmitchell


But what happens if you then "break" those rules? E.g playing a D major chord in the key of C, what, if anything, would that affect?

Thank you


non-scalar pitches have two functions: a) to serve as passing or neighbor tones to ornament scale tones, or b) to modulate to other keys. Say you are in C major, and you want to have something that pulls really strongly to its dominant (which is G major), the best course of action would be to use the V chord of the Dominant itself (known as V/V). The V chord of G major is D F# A (C as the seventh). So, if you played a D major chord, in a C major piece, it would have a strong tendency to pull towards a G major chord. This happens precisely because D major does not fit in the C major scale, the F# has alot of energy in it as a result, which allows for a stronger pull to G.

I won't go too far into this, as I don't want to mislead anyone (which anything less then a full explanation is prone to do, and this is by no means a full explanation)
#10
Quote by Mausmaus
Ahh, so THAT'S why each note in a scale has a certain major/minor/dim affiliation to it, thank you nmitchell


But what happens if you then "break" those rules? E.g playing a D major chord in the key of C, what, if anything, would that affect?

Thank you


I'd recommend that you explore Diatonic Harmony for a while to make sure you fully understand it and have worked with it, and can notate it and analyze it harmonically, otherwise you're going to be jumping into a black hole when trying to understand non diatonic chords and harmony.

Best,

Sean