#1
I'm drumming in a band, but I write a LOT of the songs on guitar/piano and often I try to insert improvisational sections. One of the guitarists just quit, so all we have right now is me, a guitarist, and a bassist. Our bassist has some great lines I could never come up with...freaking Phil Lesh material (although he doesn't know any of the crazy crap Phil uses when coming up with basslines, but he can outline chords and keep rhythm pretty well while doing some interesting things). I'd just like to get him into walking basslines, a little more understanding of diatonic harmony, and maybe a bit of improvisation. Our guitarist is like Hendrix in that he coms up with these hooks that just blow me away...His only big problems are A) he really needs to practice keeping his rhythm tight, he kinda tears songs apart because he stops listening to the other band members and his timing will just make no sense and B) he doesn't really know crap about theory or even the major scale. He had this crappy teacher who taught him 5 pentatonic scale shapes all over the neck so he can play all over the neck, but, he only knows the pentatonic scale (a big no-no because everyone needs the major scale for plenty of reasons you all know) and also he doesn't ever know what note he's playing...Its just random pentatonic gibberish. Which doesn't sound bad because its very hard to make the pentatonic scale sound bad...But it just doesn't sound very good and I'm trying to right sort of more sophisticated music. I'm trying to turn us into sort of a jam band, but with their own influences in the mix as well. Phish/Grateful Dead type of thing. Unless one is born with simply amazingly talented ears, they can't pull this off without decent knowledge of music theory/songwriting+improv technique. I don't want to waste valuable jam-time teaching them, so I was wondering if you guys could recommend sort of simplified books they could learn from? I'm trying to get them to read Walter Piston's harmony but it looks too boring for them. Flashy, time-saving, just barely getting the job done Hal Leonard type of things would work alright here Thanks for any recommendations.

edit: they WANT to learn, te geetarist even asked me to teach him once, they have similar musical tastes to me, there's minimal/no conflict betwen any of us, and i mainly want them to learn so we can improvise, its really tough to improv when you don't know shit.
Last edited by TMVATDI at Jul 18, 2011,
#2
Books don't make a band better. They just need more practice it sounds like.

Try introducing them to bands with some of the techniques you like mixed in with a song you know they'll like and then just cover it.

But a quick pointer for your guitarist, tell him to just start stomping his foot on every quarter note in every song he plays and he will have a rhythm like Stewart Copeland if he keeps it up.
#3
Didn't you used to have a much bigger band TMVATDI?

You can't force someone to learn theory dude, and once they have it, what's it going to achieve? I think you'll be one of those guys who is better off writing all the music away from other people, and call in session musicians to back you to play live whenever you need it. This sort of attitude/behaviour doesn't fly in a band where people are to be considered "equal".
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#4
Quote by Veritas69
Books don't make a band better. They just need more practice it sounds like.

Try introducing them to bands with some of the techniques you like mixed in with a song you know they'll like and then just cover it.

But a quick pointer for your guitarist, tell him to just start stomping his foot on every quarter note in every song he plays and he will have a rhythm like Stewart Copeland if he keeps it up.

nonononono, they need knowledge, not practice. well, the guitarist needs both lol so thanks for the foot tap advice, but they especially need knowledge. somebody who doesn't even know the major scale isn't gonna be able to analyze a band's techniques and be like "oh, so now we should sound like that band, that'll be easy."
#5
Quote by AlanHB
Didn't you used to have a much bigger band TMVATDI?

You can't force someone to learn theory dude, and once they have it, what's it going to achieve? I think you'll be one of those guys who is better off writing all the music away from other people, and call in session musicians to back you to play live whenever you need it. This sort of attitude/behaviour doesn't fly in a band where people are to be considered "equal".

im not forcing them, they want to learn. and they need to know some shit for improvisation, did i not get that main point accross?

edit: and we are all equal this time. i write songs, the guitarist writes songs, the bassist writes basslines. i just think that in order to improvise you need some theory (or an amazing ear), and in order to improvise over the kind of stuff we've written, well you need a lot.

edit2: oh and i quit that band because there were too many christians
Last edited by TMVATDI at Jul 18, 2011,
#6
ah ok, well I learnt most of my scales using the net and jamming to tunes, but when it comes down to theory and technique I've found that reading books and study by yourself can get you no where.

I say get them into lessons again, when your paying for it, you enjoy your teacher and don't want to disappoint them you tend to try alot harder with your musical education. It's just a matter of finding the right teacher
#7
Quote by Veritas69
ah ok, well I learnt most of my scales using the net and jamming to tunes, but when it comes down to theory and technique I've found that reading books and study by yourself can get you no where.

I say get them into lessons again, when your paying for it, you enjoy your teacher and don't want to disappoint them you tend to try alot harder with your musical education. It's just a matter of finding the right teacher

aound here those teachers simply don't exist : / there are too many metalcore guitarists around here who don't wanna learn anything but hw to shred. if that's what the demand is for, that's what' going to be supplied. the teachers aound here give you scale shapes and say "play these fast" and even get into modes within the first few months. the only place i can think of that might be right for them is sabado's school of music, where i take my drum lessons, but they probably don't have any room for more students.
#8
Quote by TMVATDI
im not forcing them, they want to learn. and they need to know some shit for improvisation, did i not get that main point accross?


Well, err, not really. Observe:

Quote by TMVATDI
I'm drumming in a band, but I write a LOT of the songs on guitar/piano and often I try to insert improvisational sections. One of the guitarists just quit, so all we have right now is me, a guitarist, and a bassist. Our bassist has some great lines I could never come up with...freaking Phil Lesh material (although he doesn't know any of the crazy crap Phil uses when coming up with basslines, but he can outline chords and keep rhythm pretty well while doing some interesting things). I'd just like to get him into walking basslines, a little more understanding of diatonic harmony, and maybe a bit of improvisation. Our guitarist is like Hendrix in that he coms up with these hooks that just blow me away...His only big problems are A) he really needs to practice keeping his rhythm tight, he kinda tears songs apart because he stops listening to the other band members and his timing will just make no sense and B) he doesn't really know crap about theory or even the major scale. He had this crappy teacher who taught him 5 pentatonic scale shapes all over the neck so he can play all over the neck, but, he only knows the pentatonic scale (a big no-no because everyone needs the major scale for plenty of reasons you all know) and also he doesn't ever know what note he's playing...Its just random pentatonic gibberish. Which doesn't sound bad because its very hard to make the pentatonic scale sound bad...But it just doesn't sound very good and I'm trying to right sort of more sophisticated music. I'm trying to turn us into sort of a jam band, but with their own influences in the mix as well. Phish/Grateful Dead type of thing. Unless one is born with simply amazingly talented ears, they can't pull this off without decent knowledge of music theory/songwriting+improv technique. I don't want to waste valuable jam-time teaching them, so I was wondering if you guys could recommend sort of simplified books they could learn from? I'm trying to get them to read Walter Piston's harmony but it looks too boring for them. Flashy, time-saving, just barely getting the job done Hal Leonard type of things would work alright here Thanks for any recommendations.



That just sounds like you want them to learn theory to be better musicians to create the music that you want. I fail to see the part where they asked you to teach them, or expressed any interest in being taught.


Quote by TMVATDI
edit: and we are all equal this time. i write songs, the guitarist writes songs, the bassist writes basslines. i just think that in order to improvise you need some theory (or an amazing ear), and in order to improvise over the kind of stuff we've written, well you need a lot.


I think your vision for the music simply is too much for your bandmembers. You can wait a couple of years until they're good enough, or you can find some new bandmembers.

Quote by TMVATDI
edit2: oh and i quit that band because there were too many christians


Whatever does it for you mate. Christians in the US can be a lot more than the Christians here in Aust so I can't really speculate
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#9
Quote by AlanHB
Well, err, not really. Observe:


That just sounds like you want them to learn theory to be better musicians to create the music that you want. I fail to see the part where they asked you to teach them, or expressed any interest in being taught.


I think your vision for the music simply is too much for your bandmembers. You can wait a couple of years until they're good enough, or you can find some new bandmembers.


Whatever does it for you mate. Christians in the US can be a lot more than the Christians here in Aust so I can't really speculate

well almost every1 in my town is christian but i finally found some nice agnostic band members haha. and the thing about the first post to any thread i ever make is i always forget key points to the post and then i talk for the est of the thread as if i put it there because i don't realize that i didn't....its just cuz i'm stupid guess lol but seriously, they're interested in learning, and we all have very similar tastes in music, and they're good, and the big thing i wanna et them able to do is improvise. yaknowwhat, i'm gonna edit that first post.

btw dude, i'm a teenager, meaning i'm an idiot but i grow very fast, so i may say something retarded one week and by the next i'll realize why it was retarded...i think this site could improve greatly and help the world of music grow better by helping people my age NICELY instead of calling us scum. just my 2 cents about what i see all over this site.
#10
You namedrop two huge names like that and compare your bandmates to the,, but then go on to say (in so many words) that your guitarist can't keep time well (Hendrix would kill for that) and your bassist can't do harmony. Doesn't make sense to me.
#11
Quote by MatthewLeisher
You namedrop two huge names like that and compare your bandmates to the,, but then go on to say (in so many words) that your guitarist can't keep time well (Hendrix would kill for that) and your bassist can't do harmony. Doesn't make sense to me.

my bassist knows harmony, he outlines the chords very well, i'd just like him to get a bit more in-depth with it. i say he's like phil lesh because phil never played root notes, neither does my bassist, playing the 6 of a major chord is probly his favorite thing to do. and the hendrix experience was pretty sloppy sounding, sometimes its tough to tell if the 8s are swung or straight. i say my guitarist is like hendrix because he comes up with great bluesy hooks. doesn't mean he's as good as hendrix, and it doesn't mean my bassist is as good as lesh, they just have similarities.
#12
I'd say get your guitarist a metronome... as well as louder monitors to hear the rest of the band (otherwise he should turn down ever so slightly in order to hear them). Maybe the guy is getting lost in it... that meditational zone when playing. Or not...

If you say the guitarist comes up with amazing hooks... thats a very good thing. As for the rest:

Amazing Phrasing by Tom Kolb (small book... but it's more than it says)

Essential Rhythm Guitar by Steve Trovato (great mimicking these tracks by this fine player. It's not difficult... just forces you to LISTEN. These tracks are also good enough to solo over)

Guitar Workshop by Jim Kelly (very cool book, deals with quite a few things... in song format. Once again... he really has to listen.)

So by getting your guitarist to listen... your goal (as well as theirs) will be reached in due course. And... it's going to take as long as it takes. Patience is required on your side. This is not a magic formula.

The bassist I have no clue about. For walking bass maybe some of the jazz guys? Ron Carter? A bit of Victor Wooten? Some others with great feel would be the Incubus bassists... Ben Kenney or Alex Katunich? No idea about bass... I just know the ones I like... along with John Pattitucci and Tal Wilkenfeld (krrrrrr... meow)

IF they really are wanting to learn, then that is a good thing and you have found yourself cool members.

PS: Hendrix Experience was not sloppy... your cd player is just faulty with that disc. Don't diss Hendrix
#13
Quote by evolucian
I'd say get your guitarist a metronome... as well as louder monitors to hear the rest of the band (otherwise he should turn down ever so slightly in order to hear them). Maybe the guy is getting lost in it... that meditational zone when playing. Or not...

If you say the guitarist comes up with amazing hooks... thats a very good thing. As for the rest:

Amazing Phrasing by Tom Kolb (small book... but it's more than it says)

Essential Rhythm Guitar by Steve Trovato (great mimicking these tracks by this fine player. It's not difficult... just forces you to LISTEN. These tracks are also good enough to solo over)

Guitar Workshop by Jim Kelly (very cool book, deals with quite a few things... in song format. Once again... he really has to listen.)

So by getting your guitarist to listen... your goal (as well as theirs) will be reached in due course. And... it's going to take as long as it takes. Patience is required on your side. This is not a magic formula.

The bassist I have no clue about. For walking bass maybe some of the jazz guys? Ron Carter? A bit of Victor Wooten? Some others with great feel would be the Incubus bassists... Ben Kenney or Alex Katunich? No idea about bass... I just know the ones I like... along with John Pattitucci and Tal Wilkenfeld (krrrrrr... meow)

IF they really are wanting to learn, then that is a good thing and you have found yourself cool members.

PS: Hendrix Experience was not sloppy... your cd player is just faulty with that disc. Don't diss Hendrix

haha its not a diss at all, i love hendrix, i think he and his drummers (i don't know their names...) probably made things a li more raw on purpose. i mean everybody knows the obvious side of their energy...playing with electricity and whatnot...but i think making the rhythm a bit loosey goosey was another part of the plan.
#14
Ok cool... cos we could just turn around and say you have to be as good as Steve Smith or Dave Weckl.... or as tasteless as Virgil Donati (the man can play, regardless of lithp. It's just he doesn't do it for me... wicked technique though). Or get some Dan Foord (Sikth) in yer playin.

But yeah... hope the info was ok... ask your guitarist to check that stuff out. Theory on the other hand can be force fed... but the result is inevitably the same as taking it as time goes on. The stuff takes time to absorb before it becomes visible in your playing.
#15
Quote by evolucian
Ok cool... cos we could just turn around and say you have to be as good as Steve Smith or Dave Weckl.... or as tasteless as Virgil Donati (the man can play, regardless of lithp. It's just he doesn't do it for me... wicked technique though). Or get some Dan Foord (Sikth) in yer playin.

But yeah... hope the info was ok... ask your guitarist to check that stuff out. Theory on the other hand can be force fed... but the result is inevitably the same as taking it as time goes on. The stuff takes time to absorb before it becomes visible in your playing.

do those books explain anything about the major scale, diatonic harmony and whatnot?
#16
Do the homework Go find out... in person.

Otherwise just get them a theory book and good luck with playing as a band.

Do the homework
#17
Quote by evolucian
Do the homework Go find out... in person.

Otherwise just get them a theory book and good luck with playing as a band.

Do the homework

by "do the homework" r u telling me to go out and get these books just to find out whether or not there worth buying?

yaknowwhat screw this thread i'll just take the time to teach them what they need to know.
#18
You don't have to buy it... I'm sure you can look through them first. That is "do the homework". Browse through it... get the general idea... then ponder if retrieving your cc from your wallet is worth the energy. Otherwise... screw the thread.

The three books I recommended are extremely valid books when it comes to playing. Jim Kelly's book works on compositional aspects within writing... stylistic aspects. Steve Trovato's book deals with playing various styles (much like the Jim Kelly book). The Tom Kolb book deals with phrasing, harmonic embellishments, melodic aspects, etc etc.

None of these books break down the theory involved in its pieces. Just useable snippets meant for immediate application. Your guitarist suffers from not keeping time. Any book on rhythm will suffice, whereas these suggested books deal with it creatively and in real world settings. The phrasing book will help him too. Timing, playing in a band setting (or the premise of one)... the stuff he learns in this book can be applied to the jim kelly book too. Tom Kolb also has another book called "Chord progressions"... also a very good book and recommended. All of these books I view as applied theory. If you just want your band to know theory... well, I guess you found that one out with the Piston book. It aint gonna happen. Rather give something useful with immediate feedback rather than something bland.
Last edited by evolucian at Jul 19, 2011,
#19
Quote by evolucian
You don't have to buy it... I'm sure you can look through them first. That is "do the homework". Browse through it... get the general idea... then ponder if retrieving your cc from your wallet is worth the energy. Otherwise... screw the thread.

well i'd pobably have to buy them online, can't look through them that way. the only place selling music books around here is borders, and they don't have a wide selection, i doubt i could go in there with a title already in mind and it'd be there waiting for me.
#20
Quote by TMVATDI
well i'd pobably have to buy them online, can't look through them that way. the only place selling music books around here is borders, and they don't have a wide selection, i doubt i could go in there with a title already in mind and it'd be there waiting for me.

I edited the previous post... check it out. As for the books... go to amazon, type in book name... read the reviews... homework. If not happy... don't buy. Simple as that.
#21
the time keping thing he just needs practice on...i guess i wasn't really asking for any help on that, just a bit of info cuz i happened to be listing his problems. the BIG thing: i want us to be able to improvise. AND i want us to be able to improvise over my most complex songs...a few of them get pretty out there (although most of them are fairly simple). i know i wasn't able to improvise before knowing theory...and i know i wasn't even able to write the songs i do now before i knew what i do now. in that way, it has been absolutely proven to me that the knowlede helps. i want them to have that knowledge. that's the simplest way i can put it.
#22
Wow,

I think you have a mountain ahead of you. My question would be why are you the one who'd be paying for this, if everyone has equal stock in the band and wants this? I am glad you aren't sending them my way, because I wouldn't let them in (If I knew you were the one paying for it). No offense to you, you're a great guy, but you paying for them would be wrong, because one, it will be wasted and two, if they feel it's that important, let them invest in it themselves to prove they are serious. If they have skin in the game, it means they will make sure they learn and get something out of it.

No kidding, Walter Piston is boring. Very boring, and I even understand it. I don't see what he does as "teaching" anything, starting at page one where the way he puts something in such a way that you have to be VERY sharp to have caught its meaning, otherwise you're two pages in, and trying to work out what augmented intervals are, without a teacher to help.

MAYBE you teaching them will help, but I doubt it. I think you may have talented guys, but do you have those willing to invest their own money into their development? If not, there's nothing that glue can stick to.

Ever try to push a rope? How'd that work out for you? You can't. Same with your situation. You need that rope pulled, and they need to be the ones to do it.

I was going to suggest the Academy, but even I wouldn't want them if they weren't the ones investing in their own development. No offense, T, you're a great guy and I respect you, but I think you may have an uphill battle ahead of you. I hope it works out though.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jul 19, 2011,
#23
okay then... how about Ron Miller's "Modal Jazz Composition and Harmony"? That should be pretty advanced.
Dave Liebman-A Chromatic Approach to Jazz Harmony and Melody?
Jerry Bergonzi - Inside Improvisation books 1-7 <--- wish him luck. This stuff aint easy.
The Frank Gambale Technique Book 1 and 2
Jean Marc Belkadi - Slap and Pop Techniques For Guitar <--- If you can do this... you must be superman!
Nicolas Slonimsky - Thesaurus Of Scales And Melodic Patterns

If this is what you want... then expect to have your dream band in 14 years time.

Something for the bassist:
Bob Magnusson - The art of walking bass

^But at least you'll have a bassist... the guitarist will take some time.

But in all seriousness... the forcefed theory won't work. And it will take time. Judging from your responses... patience is a virtue that idly swept you by. IOW... do what the others suggested... get some new and talented people in order to have your dream knowledgable band... or work with the bunch of ill informed miscreants you have now. The ill informed ones work... and they work hard. They may not like reading, or care to understand your writing principles behind each song... if it sounds good, they'll play it. If it sounds shit, you wrote a dud. Clever complex pieces aren''t for everyone, whether they be musicians or an audience. If they truly want to understand, they'll pay for it themselves, as sean said.
Last edited by evolucian at Jul 19, 2011,
#24
Quote by Sean0913
Wow,

I think you have a mountain ahead of you. My question would be why are you the one who'd be paying for this, if everyone has equal stock in the band and wants this? I am glad you aren't sending them my way, because I wouldn't let them in (If I knew you were the one paying for it). No offense to you, you're a great guy, but you paying for them would be wrong, because one, it will be wasted and two, if they feel it's that important, let them invest in it themselves to prove they are serious. If they have skin in the game, it means they will make sure they learn and get something out of it.

No kidding, Walter Piston is boring. Very boring, and I even understand it. I don't see what he does as "teaching" anything, starting at page one where the way he puts something in such a way that you have to be VERY sharp to have caught its meaning, otherwise you're two pages in, and trying to work out what augmented intervals are, without a teacher to help.

MAYBE you teaching them will help, but I doubt it. I think you may have talented guys, but do you have those willing to invest their own money into their development? If not, there's nothing that glue can stick to.

Ever try to push a rope? How'd that work out for you? You can't. Same with your situation. You need that rope pulled, and they need to be the ones to do it.

I was going to suggest the Academy, but even I wouldn't want them if they weren't the ones investing in their own development. No offense, T, you're a great guy and I respect you, but I think you may have an uphill battle ahead of you. I hope it works out though.

Best,

Sean

Well I'm not paying for the books...i just said i was cuz the sentence worked out quicker that way, i didn't want to say "are you sugesting i tell them to buy the books and then let me judge if they're worth buying and if they are have them learn from those?" because that just sounds odd. and i'm tired and young and stupid and suck at making sentences so i took a shortcut.

walter piston is very boring...i'm working my way through harmony and have to go back and check something i missed every few pages. that's not the book they're gonna learn from lol.

they're very interested in learning. i've got good members this time...they like knowing things. THEY invited ME into this band...its kind of a long story...but on the first jam session, the guitarist (who's trying to learn drums) got on my set and tried to show me something...afterwards i blew his mind shredding then i used his guitar later to show them a song i wrote, they were blown away and asked how i wrote it, i said "mostly just by ear, but there are a few things about theory you have to keep in mind..." and the rest of what i said didn't make sense to the guitarist (some of it went over the bassist's head too). the guitarist then asked me to teach him, i've attempted it a few times but it always gets in the way of songwriting and practicing, i guess i just have to have separate days where i can just teach him stuff. anyway, they think i'm amazing cuz i use big words to describe decent sounds...i think they're amazing cuz they use simple words to describe beautiful sounds (my songwriting has improved greatly just hearing them and emulating what they do). they're definitely willing to invest their time, money, and effort in order to learn.


i don't see why everyone is assuming that i have ass-hole bandmates, or uninterested bandmates, or that i want them to be music theory proffessors...i just have songs with sections for jamming, and they're just not that great at jamming, and i think they could write better songs as well if they knew some basic crap, and they'e willing to learn that basic cap, where ae you all drawing these other assumptions from?!?


i've only been playing melodic instruments for...like a year and a half. and i can already improvise over crazy shit and write crazy shit. and keep in mind i've only been on the right learning path for a few months. i'm sure its not gonna take 14 years to turn this into a decent jam band.
#25
Quote by TMVATDI


i don't see why everyone is assuming that i have ass-hole bandmates, or uninterested bandmates, or that i want them to be music theory proffessors...i just have songs with sections for jamming, and they're just not that great at jamming, and i think they could write better songs as well if they knew some basic crap, and they'e willing to learn that basic cap, where ae you all drawing these other assumptions from?!?

i've only been playing melodic instruments for...like a year and a half. and i can already improvise over crazy shit and write crazy shit. and keep in mind i've only been on the right learning path for a few months. i'm sure its not gonna take 14 years to turn this into a decent jam band.


I don't know what to tell you then. I was going off the tone of your letter, Alan even highlighted areas of concern, I don't know what else to say here. No ones attacking you or your bandmates, I'm just going off what you wrote.

You said they know their scales, Maybe get them a book on the Major scale and write and teach them how to improvise. If they are eager to learn, then you teaching them might be a good way. Try that and see how it works. I have to be careful with what else I could recommend, because I think all of us, at best have a sketchy profile of you and your band. Unless you have a recording of all of you or a video, I couldnt necessarily target what someone is missing, unless I had a detailed interview with them (which as many people here will tell you, I do that kind of thing for others in this forum all the time).

Best,

Sean
#26
I don't see this as a particularly good idea. The guys in your band are where they are. If you guys are currently compatible.... make some music. If not......move on and/or accept it for what it is.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 19, 2011,
#27
Jean Marc Belkadi - Slap and Pop Techniques For Guitar


Damn, I thought I had something original.

If you can do this... you must be superman!


Apparently I'm superman.

As for TS, If they're willing to learn, either teach them yourself or search your local music stores for some beginner books. Theres also quite a few good lessons on the site here, so I'm surprisd no ones mentioned them yet.

Just go to the lesson part of UG and search the basics, such as the major and minor scale, chordal theory and intervals, and then perhaps some rythym and phrasing lessons, although thats more technique than theory.
#28
i hear theres a great one called "get the **** off your high horse and compromise--playing in a band situation" i don't know if its by hal leonard though....
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#29
Quote by tehREALcaptain
i hear theres a great one called "get the **** off your high horse and compromise--playing in a band situation" i don't know if its by hal leonard though....


I don't think hes on a high horse at all here. If his band mates don't know theory and as such are making musical communication and creation difficult, then I see no reason why he shouldn't want educated band members.

I honestly wouldn't be able to stand it if I said "Hey, play an Em then an A5add9" and then the other guitarist goes "Whats that mean lolololol", or something similar.
#30
Quote by Life Is Brutal
I don't think hes on a high horse at all here. If his band mates don't know theory and as such are making musical communication and creation difficult, then I see no reason why he shouldn't want educated band members.

I honestly wouldn't be able to stand it if I said "Hey, play an Em then an A5add9" and then the other guitarist goes "Whats that mean lolololol", or something similar.

****in thank you!!!! that's the kinda thing i'm talking about!
#31
Quote by Sean0913
I don't know what to tell you then. I was going off the tone of your letter, Alan even highlighted areas of concern, I don't know what else to say here. No ones attacking you or your bandmates, I'm just going off what you wrote.

well i explained to alan my problems with the first post of any thread...then i edited it. and i never said anything about them bein unwilling to learn. in fact this is probably the 4th time at least i've had to say they want to learn...and that book on the major scale? tiz exactly what i'm looking for sean!
#32
TM do they know the notes on the neck of the guitar so they can perform in real time?

As for a book, I'd look at something from National Guitar Workshop (NGW). Even their Jazz stuff is pretty good because you get outside chords, etc, it also teaches basic chord tone soloing, a few inside outside approaches. You don't only use that stuff for Jazz though. If they know the notes on the neck so much the better for these approaches because they can learn to recognize their notes and patterns on the fly in real time. Its much better having an educated musician than someone that has a lot of abstract practical ability but no concept on how it all comes together and works.

Good luck man! If I can help, let me know.

Best,

Sean
#33
Quote by Life Is Brutal

Apparently I'm superman.

Lol, if you can do it as clean as Belkadi or Scott Mishoe (if memory serves correctly this ass did it in 64ths), then yes... you are superman. However... if its sloppy... then no. Also, if you can groove with it... you are superman. If not... bleh
#34
Quote by evolucian
Lol, if you can do it as clean as Belkadi or Scott Mishoe (if memory serves correctly this ass did it in 64ths), then yes... you are superman. However... if its sloppy... then no. Also, if you can groove with it... you are superman. If not... bleh


I'll put up a recording of it, although 64ths would be insane. Link?
#35
Quote by Life Is Brutal
I'll put up a recording of it, although 64ths would be insane. Link?

I look forward to hearing it. The only things I ever found of Scott would be crappy handycam recordings of whoever had a camera at one of his clinics (be sure to wear pink ski pants for maximum effect). So most of it is crappy quality, and it loses its value. And its just a demo so it has no soul... just impressive to watch for some. I remember seeing an old lesson in a guitar mag. I just don't have THAT guitar mag... sigh. The Belkadi on the other hand... I love this guys groove with it.

Anyway, end of hijack...
#36
Quote by Sean0913
TM do they know the notes on the neck of the guitar so they can perform in real time?

As for a book, I'd look at something from National Guitar Workshop (NGW). Even their Jazz stuff is pretty good because you get outside chords, etc, it also teaches basic chord tone soloing, a few inside outside approaches. You don't only use that stuff for Jazz though. If they know the notes on the neck so much the better for these approaches because they can learn to recognize their notes and patterns on the fly in real time. Its much better having an educated musician than someone that has a lot of abstract practical ability but no concept on how it all comes together and works.

Good luck man! If I can help, let me know.

Best,

Sean


unfortunately my guitarist takes forever to find notes : /

thanks a lot for the recommendation tho, it didn't take me long to figue out the neck last year, i'm sure this'll work out.
#38
Quote by Sean0913
Well you probably know by now, that I could teach him this very quickly, and if he's the one that would be investing in this, that's an option for you to consider.

Best,

Sean

i've tried teaching it to him...there's not really much to teach, it wa easy for me because i learned on a nylon string acoustic that only has 12 frets practical for playing on and 1 dot on fet 7, everything is within 6 frets of a very easy refference point. and now i know there are other patterns i could use as refference...like the same fret ne string over is the 4th of the first note, one note below that is the 3rd, a power chord is root + 5th, but that involves the kind of thing i need to teach him anyway and that'l take a bit of time, if he was going to just jump into trying to memorize the fretboard, he has all these frets with all these dots, i on't see how he'd do it...but i guess a hundered kids do every day right?