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#1
In the nine years Mark Stroman has been on death row in Texas, he says he has watched 208 people walk past him on the way to be executed.

This week it is his turn.

But fighting to save his life is the man he shot in the face and blinded in one eye.

In the days following 11 September, 2001, Stroman attacked three people, killing two of them.

He was targeting anyone he considered an "Arab", calling it revenge for 9/11.

"What Mark Stroman did was a hate crime, and hate crimes come from ignorance," said Rais Bhuiyan, 37, the only man to survive the shooting.

"His execution will not eradicate hate crimes from this world, we will just simply lose another human life."

[...]

"He asked me 'where are you from?' and that's a strange question to ask in a robbery. As soon as I said 'excuse me?' I heard an explosion and felt the sensation of a million bees stinging my face."

[...]

He needed many operations, has lost the sight in his right eye and still carries shotgun pellets in his face, but is now campaigning hard to prevent his attacker from being put to death

[...]

"I was an uneducated idiot back then and now I'm a more understanding human being," Stroman said through the black telephone handset, from behind a thick pane of glass in the death row visiting room at the Polunsky Unit, Livingston, Texas.

[...]

"At that time here in America everybody was saying 'let's get them' - we didn't know who to get, we were just stereotyping. I stereotyped all Muslims as terrorists and that was wrong."

[...]

"This campaign is all about passion, forgiveness, tolerance and healing. We should not stay in the past, we must move forward," he [Rais Bhuiyan] said.

"If I can forgive my offender who tried to take my life, we can all work together to forgive each other and move forward and take a new narrative on the 10th anniversary of 11 September."

He had been in touch with Stroman, who he would like to see as "a spokesperson, an educator, teaching a lot of people as ignorant as him what is wrong".

Stroman says he has asked himself the question a thousand times - would he be able to forgive the man who shot him in the face? He said he would find it very hard.

"I tried to kill this man, and this man is now trying to save my life. This man is inspiring to me.


Mark Stroman is due to be put to death by lethal injection on Wednesday 20 July at 1800 Texas time (0000 GMT on Thursday).


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14199078


Thoughts? I think it's incredible that this guy can forgive him for what he did to him, shooting him in the face with a shotgun. It's certainly a credit to him, but is the attacker just saying all that to try and get out of death?

He seems really genuine to me.


EDIT: For the record, I'm not saying he should be spared the death penalty, it's just rare to see two people like these.
Last edited by sam b at Jul 19, 2011,
#2
It takes a lot to forgive a stranger for doing something like that.

Good for him. I don't think I'd be able to defend a person who put a slug (shotgun pellets) in my face.
Last edited by stratkat at Jul 19, 2011,
#3
doesn't really matter whether he's genuine.

He shouldn't be killed for killing people.

Can't say I'd be able to do the same thing, but I wish there were more people like the victim.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#4
Quote by Lemoninfluence
doesn't really matter whether he's genuine.

He shouldn't be killed for killing people.

qft
#5
It's still useless to keep a killer alive. Why waste money on him, especially in this economy.
#6
Quote by WaterGod
It's still useless to keep a killer alive. Why waste money on him, especially in this economy.


life imprisonment is cheaper than a capital punishment system.

The death penalty is in addition to a large prison system, not instead of.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#8
Well they have until 6 PM tomorrow to save him. Can they legally do that though because a victim forgives the shooter?
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#9
Quote by vicarious46
Well they have until 6 PM tomorrow to save him. Can they legally do that though because a victim forgives the shooter?

Well there are two others dead so...
#10
Quote by Lemoninfluence
life imprisonment is cheaper than a capital punishment system.

The death penalty is in addition to a large prison system, not instead of.


Life imprisonment is only cheaper because of the lengthy appeal process. If the execution system were more streamlined, it would barely cost anything.

also:

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#11
Quote by Lemoninfluence
life imprisonment is cheaper than a capital punishment system.

The death penalty is in addition to a large prison system, not instead of.



How is life imprisonment cheaper than killing a person?

I don't understand?


A live person takes up space, needs water, electricity and food...
Last edited by Zeletros at Jul 19, 2011,
#12
Quote by frankv
I sincerely hope you never end up in politics.


Killers are sick people. If the family wants revenge on a man for killing their daughter then they should have it.

Now in this case the man has forgiven the killer, so I think the right to use capital punishment should rest with the victims family and not the state.
#13
Quite apart from any capital punishment debates, this man sounds like he was a right scumbag.


Regardless of his sentence though, the forgiveness of one seriously injured victim when there was another two killed shouldn't really change anything. To be honest, even were he the only victim, this man was a dangerous idiot.

EDIT:

Quote by WaterGod
Killers are sick people. If the family wants revenge on a man for killing their daughter then they should have it.

Now in this case the man has forgiven the killer, so I think the right to use capital punishment should rest with the victims family and not the state.

I think it would be terrible state of affairs were the victims of crimes to hold the final say on any part of a criminal's trial, especially in case of life or death.
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Jul 19, 2011,
#16
Quote by shikkaka
Life imprisonment is only cheaper because of the lengthy appeal process. If the execution system were more streamlined, it would barely cost anything.


That's a bit mental, tbh.
#17
Quote by WaterGod
Killers are sick people. If the family wants revenge on a man for killing their daughter then they should have it.
And that doesn't make the family "sick" as well...?

Quote by WaterGod
Now in this case the man has forgiven the killer, so I think the right to use capital punishment should rest with the victims family and not the state.

Yes, let's let all the victims have the power to decide what to do with criminals.

That'll be fair, balanced and in no way abused.

Justice is not about personal vendettas.
#18
Quote by blake1221
I'd be more moved if the other two victims forgave him too.


When they're dead?
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#19
Quote by shikkaka
Life imprisonment is only cheaper because of the lengthy appeal process. If the execution system were more streamlined, it would barely cost anything.

also:




So what you're saying is that you feel the government should be able to kill people more easily?
Like at the drop of a hat?

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that'd be slightly creepy if i didn't find it so amusing.
#20
id be forgiving to....for giving him a baseball bat beaten
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#21
Quote by MadClownDisease


I think it would be terrible state of affairs were the victims of crimes to hold the final say on any part of a criminal's trial, especially in case of life or death.



The state has already decided to execute him. In this case the family should have the final say in whether it's right or not.
#22
Quote by blake1221
I'd be more moved if the other two victims forgave him too.

Did you go on the article and see the guy? The guy still has shotgun pellets in his face. I think one victim who forgave is more than enough to be "moving"
#23
It's sad how people blindly can believe that all muslims are terrorists. That victim guy must have had quite a blast on that day.
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#24
Quote by WaterGod
The state has already decided to execute him. In this case the family should have the final say in whether it's right or not.

No they should not. Justice isn't about revenge for the victims, it's about justice.

Essentially I'm just repeating this:
Quote by Don_Humpador
Yes, let's let all the victims have the power to decide what to do with criminals.

That'll be fair, balanced and in no way abused.

Justice is not about personal vendettas.



There is a reason people directly involved in crimes can't be involved, and that's because they won't be rational and impartial.

I don't just mean because they may demand harsher penalties than required, it also works the other war around. This man has been forgiven by (one of) the men he shot. Does this make him more mentally stable? More safe to rejoin society? No.

EDIT:
Quote by sam b
Did you go on the article and see the guy? The guy still has shotgun pellets in his face. I think one victim who forgave is more than enough to be "moving"

I think he's trying to make the point that he killed two men who are no longer able to forgive him.
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Jul 19, 2011,
#25
It's hard to understand forgiveness if you're not the person in that situation. Anybody that's ever forgiven somebody for a major wrong, you know how it feels to just want to let go of that grudge.
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#26
Quote by MadClownDisease
There is a reason people directly involved in crimes can't be involved, and that's because they won't be rational and impartial.

I don't just mean because they may demand harsher penalties than required, it also works the other war around. This man has been forgiven by (one of) the men he shot. Does this make him more mentally stable? More safe to rejoin society? No.
I don't know whether you've got the wrong impression or not, I am agreeing with you.
#27
Quote by Drakathan
It's sad how people blindly can believe that all muslims are terrorists. That victim guy must have had quite a blast on that day.

Well done. Did you come up with that all by yourself?
#28
Quote by Don_Humpador
I don't know whether you've got the wrong impression or not, I am agreeing with you.

Sorry yes I was still responding to the first guy i quoted, I was just saying you said what I meant too.

Quote by Gibson06
It's hard to understand forgiveness if you're not the person in that situation. Anybody that's ever forgiven somebody for a major wrong, you know how it feels to just want to let go of that grudge.

I can more than understand forgiveness, I've never been able to hold a grudge or call someone a bad person, but the criminal justice system is not about two people shaking and making up, it's about the good of society.
#29
Quote by Zeletros
How is life imprisonment cheaper than killing a person?

I don't understand?


A live person takes up space, needs water, electricity and food...

because it's an additional cost.

If you directly compare housing one person for life and just shooting them, then killing him IS cheaper, but because execution is relatively rare it's a system that works in parallel to the existing jail system.

And given the appeals process which is lengthy because the punishment is fairly permanent, and the requirement that the death is 'humane' etc. It costs a lot to execute someone.

Quote by shikkaka
Life imprisonment is only cheaper because of the lengthy appeal process. If the execution system were more streamlined, it would barely cost anything.

also:



it's a lengthy appeals process because it's an irreversible action.

And even then it doesn't always get it right.

if people are ok with killing innocent people, why do we need the death penalty?
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#30
I don't feel sorry for the guy for being executed, at all. I think what he's saying, even if it is genuine, is too little too late.

But do I think the government should be allowed to kill him? Nope.
#31
Quote by WaterGod
The state has already decided to execute him. In this case the family should have the final say in whether it's right or not.
No, they should not. Fuck them, you should never get a say in someone else's life.
#32
I honestly don't see how this guy deserves the death penalty frankly. From my understanding the death penalty is reserved for particularly heinous murders. While he committed murder, shooting people isn't particularly heinous.
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#33
Quote by sam b
Well done. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

You didn't give me a lot to work with
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#34
The f*ck? Props to the dude who forgave him. But f*ckin a... I'd never ever forgive anyone for that.
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#35
Quote by tayroar
I honestly don't see how this guy deserves the death penalty frankly. From my understanding the death penalty is reserved for particularly heinous murders. While he committed murder, shooting people isn't particularly heinous.
It's Texas lol.
#36
Quote by tayroar
I honestly don't see how this guy deserves the death penalty frankly. From my understanding the death penalty is reserved for particularly heinous murders. While he committed murder, shooting people isn't particularly heinous.

I'm not sure of the exact details of the two other victims, but it was unprovoked and racially motivated, which I think might add some weight.
#37
Quote by guitarhero_764
It's Texas lol.



Yea, and he killed foreigners. I'm surprised he's not being given a medal of some kind.
#38
If you support the death penalty, then you support the killing of innocent people.
#39
Quote by Gyroscope
If you support the death penalty, then you support the killing of innocent people.


Thats a wee bit of a stretch there.

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#40
^
Not at all, unless you consider the courts to be infallible then there will be innocent people who get convicted of crimes they did not commit, and thus executed for those crimes
If you consider the court systems to be infallible then you're a moron.

His statement is absolutely factual.

Quote by WaterGod
It's still useless to keep a killer alive. Why waste money on him, especially in this economy.

The value of human life is now determined by their utility to a subjective group of values? Sweet.

*prepares to kill anyone who disagrees with me*
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Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Jul 19, 2011,