#1
The other large the about this seems mostly to be focused on informing and updating people what actually happened in Norway in the past couple of days, but I searched and there doesn't actually seem to be a great deal of discussion about what happened.

There does seem to be a good number of anti-Islam/generally xenophobic movements in Europe. Considering the amount of seats and support parties with anti-Muslim positions get (Marine Le Pen in France is one I can name, but in some of the articles regarding the shooting I recall a few others being mentioned), they have a decent bit of support.

I know a good bit of UGers are European and I'm curious to see what they think about the movement, and what implications the Utoya shooting has for these movements across Europe, and more specifically the one in Norway.
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#2
I'm not Euro, but no doubt these parties will become slightly more moderate, as to avoid parallels with Anders.
#3
i thought someone had an interesting thought in the other thread that this may spark a european anti-muslim campaign with dire consequences not unlike WWII.

will that happen? doubtful. could it? certainly.
#DTWD
#6
Quote by primusfan
i thought someone had an interesting thought in the other thread that this may spark a european anti-muslim campaign with dire consequences not unlike WWII.

will that happen? doubtful. could it? certainly.


I'd say more or less impossible.

Quote by Zeletros
Leave Europe to the Europeans, rest of the world can go back where they came from


So you agree with the anti-immigration sentiment? I'd understand if more people criticized the fairly open immigration policy prevailing in much of the EU as an economic problem (which it is - loads of unskilled workers and not enough job growth means high unemployment, which results in higher crime and whatnot), but a lot of the parties seem to be taking the angle that it's necessary to keep some sort of national purity or are just openly racist.
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To Me:

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Last edited by Psychedelico at Jul 24, 2011,
#7
Quote by genghisgandhi
0_0

Most certainly do not want.


again, doubtful. people are more likely to condemn the anders guy than side with him. but the initial widespread blame of muslims probably says something about the state of affairs over there so i can't say for sure ...
#DTWD
#8
Quote by primusfan
i thought someone had an interesting thought in the other thread that this may spark a european anti-muslim campaign with dire consequences not unlike WWII.

will that happen? doubtful. could it? certainly.


I don't think Europeans are that stupid to start a world war (again), and I doubt you can win support for anti-immigration laws by killing your own countrymen.
#9
Not European, but my guess is if anything it'd provoke a backlash against the vehemently anti-immigrant parties, in the same way the Oklahoma City bombings provoked a backlash against the right wing militia movement, for a good while at least.
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#10
Quote by Psychedelico
I'd say more or less impossible.


yeah. i think so. but if you look at america for example, we became (arguably) more right-wing after the oklahoma city bombing. similarly carried out by a right-wing extremist. were those things related? i dunno. but that was in retaliation to ruby ridge and waco. and i know people sympathized with that. i dont even know what this anders dude's motive was.

and the other thing is it just reminds me of that twilight zone episode where there's a nuclear bomb that's going to drop and this one family has a safe room but won't let any of the neighbors in for lack of supplies for everyone. locking them out to die. then it turns out it was a false alarm. and they have to go back to living next to each other. awkwaaaard.

just seems like with the sudden blame of muslims, now that it's not them everyone's kind of going "wellllll .... this is weird .... <_<"
#DTWD
Last edited by primusfan at Jul 24, 2011,
#11
Quote by primusfan
again, doubtful. people are more likely to condemn the anders guy than side with him. but the initial widespread blame of muslims probably says something about the state of affairs over there so i can't say for sure ...


well i can kind of see where the blaming came from, IIRC gadaffi swore revenge on norway for helping in libya, and norway has helped the US in a-stan and iraq, so it's not a huge stretch for someone to think like that, but i think that there wont be much of a backlash against muslims seeing as the guy that did it apparently had anti-muslim views ,i mean i guess some people going to pull the "if we had never let them in then this wouldnt have happened thing", but i dont think it would have been worse if the guy was a muslim.

if you're a muslim you basically cant win no matter what happens tbh.
you brought a hooker to church?
#12
Quote by primusfan
yeah. i think so. but if you look at america for example, we became (arguably) more right-wing after the oklahoma city bombing. similarly carried out by a right-wing extremist.

and the other thing is it just reminds me of that twilight zone episode where there's a nuclear bomb that's going to drop and this one family has a safe room but won't let any of the neighbors in for lack of supplies for everyone. locking them out to die. then it turns out it was a false alarm. and they have to go back to living next to each other. awkwaaaard.

just seems like with the sudden blame of muslims, now that it's not them everyone's kind of going "wellllll .... this is weird .... <_<"


Becoming more rightwing, sure, I can see that happening, and that may actually help - more restrictive immigration would limit the already ridiculously high unemployment in some places in the EU, which is linked with a bunch of problems. But, I'm assuming that you meant some sort of mass killing of Muslims, which I think is more-or-less impossible.
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Don't ask me I have no idea how the hell it happened.




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#13
Quote by Psychedelico
Becoming more rightwing, sure, I can see that happening, and that may actually help - more restrictive immigration would limit the already ridiculously high unemployment in some places in the EU, which is linked with a bunch of problems. But, I'm assuming that you meant some sort of mass killing of Muslims, which I think is more-or-less impossible.


Genocide is quite a radical way to combat increased population, and I approve it
#14
Quote by Psychedelico
Becoming more rightwing, sure, I can see that happening, and that may actually help - more restrictive immigration would limit the already ridiculously high unemployment in some places in the EU, which is linked with a bunch of problems. But, I'm assuming that you meant some sort of mass killing of Muslims, which I think is more-or-less impossible.


i dunno that i'd say impossible, but i do agree it's unlikely. especially in norway. but as western europe experiences more and more muslim immigration, i don't doubt there will be more violence. based on birth rates, western europe will be a majority muslim in something like a generation or two. with western europeans as a minority in their own turf, i would expect an increase in nationalism to violent levels. not quite on the level of electing a hitler-type official or genocide. but at least on par with IRA vs english.
#DTWD
#15
what the ****

Breivik is reported to have written many posts on the website document.no,[23] described by Aftenposten as "Islam-critical and Israel-friendly".[24] He also attended meetings of "Documents venner" (Friends of Document), affiliated with the website.[25] Dagens Næringsliv writes that Breivik sought to start a Norwegian version of the Tea Party movement in cooperation with the owners of document.no, but that they, after expressing initial interest, ultimately turned down his proposal because he did not have the contacts he promised.[26] Due to the media attention on his Internet activity following the 2011 attacks, document.no compiled a complete list of comments made by Breivik on its website between September 2009 and June 2010.[27][28][29]
Breivik wrote that it was essential to "fight" for a "Judeo-Christian Europe", praised the rejection of "anti-Jewish views" and stated that "the new Conservatist ‘new right’ is rapidly developing into a pro-Israel, anti-Jihad alliance."[30] He applauds Israel, and considers Israel to be a victim of alleged "cultural Marxists" who "see Israel as a 'racist' state".[31]
Breivik penned a 1,500-page manifesto titled 2083 — A European Declaration of Independence, under the pseudonym "Andrew Berwick", published in 2011. In the document he describes his background and discusses his political viewpoints.[32][33][34] "Berwick" details his preparation for the attacks including but not limited to; the preparation of ANFO, methods of acquisition of chemical precursors, and his mental state in the days leading up to the attacks. In the preface he says he devoted nine years of his life to writing the book, working full time during the last three.[3]
Six hours before the attacks, Breivik posted a YouTube video urging conservatives to "embrace martyrdom" and showing himself wearing a wetsuit and pointing a Ruger Mini 14.[35]


edit: apparently he played video games too, does norway have their own jack thompson?
you brought a hooker to church?
Last edited by ghostnineone at Jul 24, 2011,
#16
Quote by primusfan
i dunno that i'd say impossible, but i do agree it's unlikely. especially in norway. but as western europe experiences more and more muslim immigration, i don't doubt there will be more violence. based on birth rates, western europe will be a majority muslim in something like a generation or two. with western europeans as a minority in their own turf, i would expect an increase in nationalism to violent levels. not quite on the level of electing a hitler-type official or genocide. but at least on par with IRA vs english.


I can see your point, though I'm not really familiar with what happened with the IRA. What does that estimation assume about the future though?
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#17
Quote by ghostnineone
what the ****


edit: apparently he played video games too, does norway have their own jack thompson?

What a great way to kick off the Norwegian Tea Party.
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#18
Quote by ErikLensherr
What a great way to kick off the Norwegian Tea Party.


thats what i thought, the tea party here already has a shitty enough reputation as it is, now theyre going to be associated with some crazy asshole wanting to start the norwegian version of the tea party and killing 90+ people.

IIRC the tea party took a lot of heat for the shooting of that senator too
you brought a hooker to church?
#19
Quote by Zeletros
Genocide is quite a radical way to combat increased population, and I approve it
Fucking what? You're not serious, are you?
#20
Quote by ghostnineone
thats what i thought, the tea party here already has a shitty enough reputation as it is, now theyre going to be associated with some crazy asshole wanting to start the norwegian version of the tea party and killing 90+ people.

IIRC the tea party took a lot of heat for the shooting of that senator too

It was a Congresswoman, but to be fair that wasn't really their fault since that guy just seemed crazy.

However the vast majority of the tea party's image problems stem from their own nutty beliefs and the people they elect, so it's nothing to get too bothered over.
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#22
Quote by due 07
Fucking what? You're not serious, are you?


I saw the post as well, but it's obvious trolling. It's better to try not to get riled up by stuff that obviously solely intended to be inflammatory and simply ignore it.
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Don't ask me I have no idea how the hell it happened.




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#23
EDIT: ^ Too late.

Quote by Zeletros
I am serious.
Why do you think we need to "combat increased population"? I can assure there is nothing wrong with the population numbers of the world or the rate at which population is growing. The problem lies with the allocation of resources in the world.

Quote by You again
Leave Europe to the Europeans, rest of the world can go back where they came from
The "rest of the world suffers" economically thanks to the vicious neo-liberal policies European countries routinely enforce. Don't they have a right to get out of a shitty economic situation that European countries put them in in the first place?
#24
Quote by ErikLensherr
It was a Congresswoman, but to be fair that wasn't really their fault since that guy just seemed crazy.

However the vast majority of the tea party's image problems stem from their own nutty beliefs and the people they elect, so it's nothing to get too bothered over.


well yeah but this guy is nuts too, and this is just gonna make the tea party seem even crazier
you brought a hooker to church?
#25
Quote by due 07
EDIT: ^ Too late.

Why do you think we need to "combat increased population"? I can assure there is nothing wrong with the population numbers of the world or the rate at which population is growing. The problem lies with the allocation of resources in the world.

The "rest of the world suffers" economically thanks to the vicious neo-liberal policies European countries routinely enforce. Don't they have a right to get out of a shitty economic situation that European countries put them in in the first place?



Because it's easier to combat increasing population than allocating resources


I don't see how people migrating from their countries to europe in search of work helps THEIR economy
Last edited by Zeletros at Jul 24, 2011,
#26
Quote by primusfan
i dunno that i'd say impossible, but i do agree it's unlikely. especially in norway. but as western europe experiences more and more muslim immigration, i don't doubt there will be more violence. based on birth rates, western europe will be a majority muslim in something like a generation or two. with western europeans as a minority in their own turf, i would expect an increase in nationalism to violent levels. not quite on the level of electing a hitler-type official or genocide. but at least on par with IRA vs english.



We're nowhere near that stage, man. France has the highest population of Muslims, and they don't even make up 10%.
#27
Quote by gabcd86
We're nowhere near that stage, man. France has the highest population of Muslims, and they don't even make up 10%.



That's what they used to say about global warming
#28
Quote by Zeletros


I don't see how people migrating from their countries to europe in search of work helps THEIR economy


Fewer unemployed people looking for jobs maybe?
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that'd be slightly creepy if i didn't find it so amusing.
#29
Quote by abdulalhazred
Fewer unemployed people looking for jobs maybe?



That is passive.
#30
This is what happens when people are nationalists, get enough of them and you'll get some nutcases acting on it. Nationalism is insane, patriotism is insane, anything that makes you feel some 'pride' or 'shame' for that matter based upon where on the planet you happened to be born is very stupid. It makes no ****ing difference to anything.
#31
Quote by Zeletros
Because it's easier to combat increasing population than allocating resources
Yeah, except one requires a significantly less amount of people to die. In fact less people would die than if no action was taken at all.

Quote by Zeletros
I don't see how people migrating from their countries to europe in search of work helps THEIR economy
That's not the point -- it helps their personal financial situation, a financial situation they are in thanks to so-called free markets and globalization. It's inhumane.
#32
Immigration->unemployment is, at best, only feebly linked. Its the lump of labour fallacy, as if there were a set amount of jobs to go round. Immigrants create demand. They may also start businesses, thus creating supply. Both of these mean growth, which can lead to MORE jobs.
#33
Quote by primusfan
western europe will be a majority muslim in something like a generation or two. with western europeans as a minority in their own turf, i would expect an increase in nationalism to violent levels. not quite on the level of electing a hitler-type official or genocide. but at least on par with IRA vs english.


You are miles off mate, absolutely miles off. Muslims still make up very small percentages of european populations, regardless of what you might hear in the media.
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#34
Slightly less than 3 % of the Norwegian population are muslims, and only 1.5 % or so registered in a religious assembly. There might be confusion about the numbers because they aren't evenly spread across the country, and more than 40,000 live in the counties Oslo and Akershus.

Oh noez! Islamisatiion of Norway! GET THA MOSLEM NIGGAS OUT OF HERE!

To be frank, I would rather live next door to a mosque than the house of a right winger like Breivik, or Siv Jensen (FrP Progress Party). The latter isn't that extreme, but the leader of a populistic, shitty party.
ERROR 0x45: Signature not found
Last edited by sfaune92 at Jul 24, 2011,
#35
In France, that fear of imigration is massively used by politicians to get ppl to hear them. But more than that, right wing nationalists like Marine LePen seem to gather more ppl around them.
I dunno how that shit will affect France's political landscape but racism is far too much represented...
#36
Quote by Zoot Allures
This is what happens when people are nationalists, get enough of them and you'll get some nutcases acting on it. Nationalism is insane, patriotism is insane, anything that makes you feel some 'pride' or 'shame' for that matter based upon where on the planet you happened to be born is very stupid. It makes no ****ing difference to anything.



It seems at best you'd like to mildly enjoy wherever you live. So, with that, I recommend you should move here:

http://theinfosphere.org/Neutral_Planet