Poll: What sort of rectifier?
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View poll results: What sort of rectifier?
Tube
31 69%
Solid State
14 31%
Voters: 45.
Page 1 of 2
#1
OK guys I want opinions on something. Most of you are familiar with my cookie tin amps, if not, look here.

It will be another Marshall 18 W'er in a Jack Daniels tin - that much is decided. The quandry I am in is regarding the actual circuitry for the amp. Tube rectification has some serious downsides, particularly the amount of power supply filtering one can use. SS rectifiers kick their arse in that regard. Far easier to remove the hum from an amp with a SS rectifier.
However, I can't claim to have a genuine Marshall circuit if I use a SS rectifier and massive filter capacitors. From an artistic standpoint I think I should be using a tube rectifier but from a performance angle SS would be my choice.

So, if you were considering buying one would a SS rectifier make you baulk at handing over the cash? After all these things are suppose to be pieces of art that you put on display, useful pieces of art that you can use but art nonetheless.

So I guess the question is: art or performance? Which topology would YOU prefer. Be as subjective about it as you like. It's art so your gut feelings on the matter do count. Even if you have no technical understanding of what I was talking about i still want to hear your opinion.

Shoot!
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#2
First, WOW those are freaking awesome! i love the concept and really have to say you are awesome for making them.
To me the art would be important, although performance matters i would not buy one of your cookie tin amps because it would out-perform my amp, i would get it because it is kick ass cool.
#3
Practically wise, performance is the clear choice.
Really depends on who you're marketing it for, die-hard Marshall fans or regular guitarists.
By regular guitarists I mean people like me who wouldn't be able to tell the difference
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#4
Art i think would be a bigger factor, i don't think people would buy this because it soundes better than any other amp but still. It has to be decent sounding :P
These are so awesome btw
#5
Both.
Do a Dual Recto (2 channel of course)


Usually I prefer SS, unless I'm playing low gain stuff, then I do like a valve rectifier for a bit of sag. I'd be fine with SS though, not really a big deal for me. As long as it sounds good, I honestly don't care either way
#6
Market I'm aiming for is guitarists with an artistic bent that would like to have something unique in their living room. It's a conversation starter as much as something you would actually use - although it would make a great little practice amp as well.
From an artistic viewpoint the tube not only looks better, it makes it a real Marshall, so to speak. I really do think that a tube makes a better artistic statement - but a SS rectifier would work better imo.
And thanks for the compliments.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#7
Would it alter the price dramatically at all?
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#8
Quote by Eppicurt
Would it alter the price dramatically at all?

No, not at all. What you save in tube you make up in bigger capacitors.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#9
Wow, they look amazing and are actually reasonably priced.
Quote by Dirtydeeds468
Holy Crap.

I love you more than life itself.
#10
Well for marketing sake, a tube rectifier would be a lot more appealing to a consumer, especially if you say it's "true spec marshall circuit".

Just my 2 cents.
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#11
I'm not making much profit on them. There's about $400 worth of parts including postage. I'm making them for fun, not profit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#12
Fair enough, could you leave the decision up to the buyer then somehow? If you have someone interested in the design give them the option?
I realise it's hard to get someone interested pre-production of it
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#13
Nah, no pre-ordering. It will be what it is. I aint doing by commission portraits. I think that's selling-out as an artist. I want to get a general feeling for people's opinions on the subject but at the end of the day I'm going to do what I think is right.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#14
Great to hear mate whatever the decision is i'm sure you'll please the new owner!
Also i'm very very interested in purchasing, will be coming into some money soon for some new gear so keep me posted
Quote by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
#15
Don't worry, when it's finished I'll be doing a NAD for it here at GG&A and probably a build thread over at GB&C like i did for the last one.

PS: I think I'll do a tweet when it's done this time. I only normally use twitter to announce changes to my site, usually updates to the Linux repo I run, so following me won't fill your twitter with pointless drivel about what I am having for lunch. Just go to the main page on cathbard.com to get the twitter details.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 24, 2011,
#16
I'd like to see a ss cookie tin amp for a change.
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
Amps: Vox AC15C1, Roland Cube 15x, Peavey KB-1
Pedals: Digitech RP355, HD500, Joyo AC-Tone, EHX Soul Food
#17
Always make it the best amp you can. I don't give a toss about authenticity, it's just another name for mojo most of the time. I want an amp because it's good, not because my granddad played one exactly like it.


^The amp won't be really ss, just the rectifier. As is the case in 99% of tube amps made today.
#18
Yeah, I don't really know much about the parts of an amp.
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
Amps: Vox AC15C1, Roland Cube 15x, Peavey KB-1
Pedals: Digitech RP355, HD500, Joyo AC-Tone, EHX Soul Food
#19
Correct, I'm am only talking about the rectifier. The actual amplifier section will be pure tube. It's just the power supply section in question here. There's no way in hell i would make an actual SS amp. That's just not me.

Well, duck (hmm, no duck today) if I was only making an amp to play I would definitely use a SS rectifier. But as a piece of art there is some merit in making it the "real thing" but in a different package. So I take it from your perspective its use as an amp to play through gazumps it being a piece of artwork to adorn your lounge room, yes? That's a valid opinion and I did say that I wanted a "gut feeling" about it.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#20
Dramatically increasing the power supply filtering is going to change the amp quite a bit.

If you want a good 18watt replica you need to keep its filtering similar. Take a Vox AC30 for example, having heavy filtering in it is going to change the tone of the amp due to the fact that it will now be able to more accurately reproduce bass frequencies.

I would go with a tube rectifier for it just because that is the way the amp was built. An 18W Marshall is going to be biased quite far into class AB, so when the current draw kicks it up the voltages are going to sag quite a bit with a tube rectifier. More compressed, and a bit different feel then.

You could use a solid state rectifier, but I would also put a resistor that is an accurate representation of the EZ81 resistance in series after the output and keep the supply caps the same size.

I've personally had no problem getting hum out of an amp with a tube rectifier, the initial power supply cap is limited, but in a push pull amp the ripple will filter out anyway. The supply caps in the preamp are going to reduce almost all of the ripple voltage as it is.
#21
After trial and error I have discovered that even with a tube rectifier you have to use more capacitance than standard. If I use an EZ81 it will be using 50/32/32 in the filter. The only audible difference I could detect was a decrease in hum over the stock 32/16/16, which is, to be frank, ridiculously low. Upping the capacitance is a pretty common mod on genuine Marshall 1974's. The originals were made to be a cheap practice amp and they really cheaped out on the capacitors.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#22
Quote by Cathbard
Correct, I'm am only talking about the rectifier. The actual amplifier section will be pure tube. It's just the power supply section in question here. There's no way in hell i would make an actual SS amp. That's just not me.

Well, duck (hmm, no duck today) if I was only making an amp to play I would definitely use a SS rectifier. But as a piece of art there is some merit in making it the "real thing" but in a different package. So I take it from your perspective its use as an amp to play through gazumps it being a piece of artwork to adorn your lounge room, yes? That's a valid opinion and I did say that I wanted a "gut feeling" about it.

Difficult trade-off. I can see the "piece of art" approach getting in the way of an ss-rectifier... but I'm wondering if it's that bad? To me, the artistic part, that which elevates the CTAs over other amps, is mainly the packaging and presentation (not putting down the amp inside or your workmanship, it's just the looks that immediately stick out). Unique looks with little to no drawbacks concerning functionality.
That the amp inside is a replica of a classic is secondary to me. It'd be just as artistic if it was a modern circuit or something you designed yourself (possibly even more so if you designed it yoursel!). So the circuit being authentic or not isn't a big deal to me. It also opens the door for slippery-slope arguments, like "if it's authentic, it should use such and such types and brands of caps/resistors/transformers/blah blah blah."

X brings up some good points, but I like my bass-response to be bold and stable. Matter of taste though.
#23
voted.

but i will say that i'm a bit down on the jack and 18 watt. :yawn:


put a supro in a led zepplin tin.
#24
But the good Supros are 6L6 amps - too big.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#25
What all tin amp's do you make or would you make? Would you make a peavey 6505+ or 5150 ll?
#26
Quote by Austin174
What all tin amp's do you make or would you make? Would you make a peavey 6505+ or 5150 ll?

That sounds hugely impractical.
#27
There is a limitation on how big an amp you can fit into such a tin. Things like 5150's are completely out of the question. The 18W Marshalls are perfect for it, the limited number of knobs is a bonus too. There's less room than you'd think.
I learnt early that you have to mount everything you can on the lid. Then you have to take into account how far down into the tin everything goes once it's closed up. Also what is next to what. You can't just go slapping things in there. It requires quite a bit of careful planning.
There's actually a fair bit to consider that you don't have to worry about in a normal chassis. Lots harder to build a cookie tin amp than a normal amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#28
Quote by Cathbard
But the good Supros are 6L6 amps - too big.

yea true, a thunderbolt was on my clist for $600. the thing was huge.
#30
Well I could add a post phase inverter Master Volume to an 18W'er. That would turn the normal volume knob into a Gain control. I have been toying with the idea of doing that with a switch to disable the MV so it could also be run as normal 1974 as well if one wanted to.

It would be nice if I could find knobs with Tone, Vol and Gain on them. I'm quite pleased with the strat knobs on the last one. It means I don't have to try to label the tin.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 24, 2011,
#31
i am a guitarist not a great one but a decent one
i dont give a damn about the looks as long as the tone gives me an erection

i am a dumb guy i dont know what art is,to me art is big fake boobies

i prefer normal comfortable guitars over those stupid girly flying v' they are for kids who dont know how to play

i am a TONE FREAK and i bet there are hundreds of people like me who will pay out for the quality of the amp rather than the
if i was your cusromer i'd have looked over tone and features over the exact copy

who wants exact clones anyways there must be a reason why people buy hotroded marshalls
as far as your question goes....what was your question anyways
Gear:
Peavey 6505 120W Head
Ibanez Rga32 (FOR SALE)
Laney Lv412a Cab(FOR SALE)
Soon To Get::
Boss DD20
Morley Bad Horsie II
#32
Hendrix played a Flying V and Clapton has played Explorers - they are kids that don't know how to play?
If you don't appreciate art then I guess this sort of thing is not for you. I'm not aiming at the mainstream market at all. I just want to make art that some guitarists might appreciate. If that isn't you then, meh..... doesn't phase me. As an artist you don't expect everybody to appreciate what you do. If they did it's probably not art.

The question was. Should I use a SS or tube rectifier? But as the main consideration is an artistic one perhaps you should just move right along and not concern yourself with things you don't understand. Not having a go at you, just responding to your own self-evaluation.

Edit: I'll be ordering the parts tomorrow and it seems like the resounding opinin is coming down on the side of a tube rectifier. I was leaning that way anyway so that clinches it. Tube rectifier it is. Thanks guys, you've been a great help

PS: greg, wasn't it you that convinced me to do an 18W Marshall in the first place?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 24, 2011,
#33
i have to say cathbard, that performance should come first, and once it has been perfected/attained/whatever, then look towards art form, but never at the cost of any performance.


you are doing a marshal amp again? what about a fender? or an orange?
#34
hey man i didnt meant to offend you or something. ..what i meant was performance should come first i liked your previous cookie tin amps
and music itself is a form of art
i say ss
Gear:
Peavey 6505 120W Head
Ibanez Rga32 (FOR SALE)
Laney Lv412a Cab(FOR SALE)
Soon To Get::
Boss DD20
Morley Bad Horsie II
#35
Quote by 00_hns_00
i have to say cathbard, that performance should come first, and once it has been perfected/attained/whatever, then look towards art form, but never at the cost of any performance.


you are doing a marshal amp again? what about a fender? or an orange?


Well as X pointed out, a SS rectifier will change the flavour of the amp and as the goal is to make classic amps in unique enclosures that consideration is important. I may think that an amp with a SS rectifier with big gutsy filter caps is superior but it wouldn't be a "classic" amp if i do that. His argument is quite persuasive.

I may do an AC15 in future. I've been looking into that as well. A Princeton isn't out of the question either. The first one was a Fender Champ. I'll probably do another of those again one day too. I have another Tim Tam box I could use but next time I'll incorporate the improvements I developed on the JD Marshall so it is suitable for sale.
Greg convinced me that a Marshall in a JD tin had a certain synergy to it which is why I went that way. Plus, I really like the 18W Marshalls. They are a great blues amp and again blues and whiskey has a synergy to it too.
Apart from that, the more I make the better they will get and the faster I will get at building them. I am very happy with the last one so i'd like to keep it rolling.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#37
Quote by Cathbard
greg, wasn't it you that convinced me to do an 18W Marshall in the first place?

yes, and it was perfect.

what did it sell for?

i'm thinking american voiced now, like a 5e3.

do you have a shitton of tins?
#38
Quote by TheQuailman
So, ever gonna do that vodka-amp?

Yeah man. Still planning to do it. One day. Whether i'll sell it or not is another question. It's hardly a classic amp so it wouldn't fit in with what I am trying to do with these but I will probably do it for my own amusement and just keep it. I do have quite a stockpile of those Russian tubes.

No greg, I don't have a pile of tins. I just get them as I need them. A friend is sending me a Jack tin tomorrow and I'm watching one on Ebay as well.
All going according to plan, I am swapping the last one for a Gibson Explorer. Rob just has to organise a few things to see if it's viable from his end.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 24, 2011,
#39
Well maybe we could work something out cause I play all kind's of metal so I would need distorion an decent clean's. I'll pm you here in a few.
#40
A good metal amp requires quite a few preamp tubes and every one adds about half an amp of heater current. The trannies I am using now could handle a couple more so it's not totally out of the question but like I said before, the plan is to make classic amps and there are no classic metal amps I can think of off the top of my head that would be possible to build - they are all just too damn big.

Edit. A 5E3 would certainly be doable, greg. Might have to put that in the "possibly in the future" list.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 24, 2011,
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