#1
Folks,

My 13 year old son has been taking guitar lessons for the past 4 years. The problem with most guitar teachers is that they teach was the student wants to learn. There is no methodology in place. I am wondering if there is any curriculum by son can follow. I have seen some other children going through piano curriculum where they clear level 1, level 2, etc. My thought is that the teacher can help him with the curriculum.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Regards,
Peter
#2
You could talk to the teacher about it, or you can also send him to guitar lessons with a book that has all of those activities in them. They're easy to find and very cheap. If you learn everything in one of the books your pretty much all set!

- Mitch
ESP LTD MH-53

(Soon to get) Peavey Bandit 112

Digitech: RP 55
#3
Quote by PeterTaps
Folks,

My 13 year old son has been taking guitar lessons for the past 4 years. The problem with most guitar teachers is that they teach was the student wants to learn. There is no methodology in place. I am wondering if there is any curriculum by son can follow. I have seen some other children going through piano curriculum where they clear level 1, level 2, etc. My thought is that the teacher can help him with the curriculum.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Regards,
Peter


Well, the real trick is keeping a 13 year old interested in that curriculum.

how is your son doing? the fact that he's taken lessons for 4 years and not quit leads me to believe his teachers were doing alright. Can he play many songs?

and regarding the curriculum thing.....what exactly do you want him learn, and will he be motivated based on the fact that you want him to learn it..... or is he self motivated?
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 26, 2011,
#4
A truly good teacher can teach people in a way that incorporates what the student wants to learn,as well as have a methodical approach to teaching the fundamentals within the pieces learned. Ask the teacher what their methodology is to what they're teaching and ideas on where they are going. As far as theory on UG alone there are tons of great columns on theory if they want to read into things related to what the teacher is teaching. Course books can sometimes be real motivational killers by making you play hot cross buns and other things many young guitarists sometimes find a real drag to sit through. I quit playing trumpet in elementary school because I didnt want to learn hot cross buns, so I would try playing taps and other things instead, eventually I quit. A good teacher can teach what you want to play and successfully incorporate learning the basics along with it.
#6
Quote by pushingthrough
A truly good teacher can teach people in a way that incorporates what the student wants to learn,as well as have a methodical approach to teaching the fundamentals within the pieces learned. Ask the teacher what their methodology is to what they're teaching and ideas on where they are going. As far as theory on UG alone there are tons of great columns on theory if they want to read into things related to what the teacher is teaching. Course books can sometimes be real motivational killers by making you play hot cross buns and other things many young guitarists sometimes find a real drag to sit through. I quit playing trumpet in elementary school because I didnt want to learn hot cross buns, so I would try playing taps and other things instead, eventually I quit. A good teacher can teach what you want to play and successfully incorporate learning the basics along with it.



a good teacher can teach it, but the student has take interest and practice. Some do, some don't.
shred is gaudy music
#7
There is a very well developed pedagogy for guitar, specifically classic guitar. Unfortunately if your son is not going down that path there is no official or De Facto standard for guitar instruction that I'm aware of. You're at the mercy of the particular instructor your son happens to have. I share your concern because I have a son about the same age as yours taking lessons. His instructor is very good but but his lessons consist of a mix of what my son wants to play and what the instructor wants to teach.

The problem with this method of guitar instruction is you don't get well rounded players. You may be reasonably good a solos but can't change chords fast enough to sing Kumbayah for a campfire etc.

Future guitarists would be better served if the was some kind of standard method.
#8
People who go through piano (for instance) grades 1, 2, 3, etc. are following a syllabus from an accredited institution. The Royal Conservatory of Music is one. It represents a "standard" because they are familiar to virtually everyone.

http://rcmusic.ca/

The thing is.... the Royal Conservatory of Music (and nearly all other similar organizations) grade their levels according to classical repertoire. That's not a bad thing. It's just an observation. Oh sure, Hot Cross Buns with two hands together is hardly "classical" repertoire, but as you go higher in the repertoire levels, you are less likely to encounter public domain works and nursery rhymes, and instead will find more serious and "standard repertoire" classical pieces.

Guitar is *exactly* the same way. The Royal Conservatory of music has a syllabus for guitar. It is classical repertoire. It is a standard that virtually everyone recognizes.

However... though most piano players don't mind learning that stuff, a lot of guitarists can't be bothered with that repertoire, and just want to bash out their favourite Metallica and Nirvana riffs. There's no syllabus for that - at least not any that are widely-recognized.

Another route is this:

Here in Ontario, you can take guitar courses in high school. That means that the province has to have curriculum documents that the teachers take guidance from when planning courses and learning activities, and in assessing students.

Here is a link to those curriculum documents:
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/arts.html

The problem there is that it is not practical to develop curriculum standards for flute, clarinet, trumpet, trombone, keyboard, drums, guitar, viola, blah, blah, blah. So, they don't. They have music expectations - all delineated by grade level - but those expectations are not instrument specific. "The student will do such-and-such and demonstrate knowledge of such-and-such on an instrument" kind of thing.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#9
No. *Insert Obscenity here* off and let your son play what he wants to play.
Guitar is a very very expansive instrument, many different ways you can approach it and play it.
There's going to be the bluesy guys, the classical flamenco dudes, the country chicken-pickers, the Metal shredder's and chuggers, so so so on on on.
A CIRRICULUM for guitar is bullshit, Music is an Artform, and there's many ways of practising art and painting your musical masterpeice.
Your son may be a diehard classical music fan or a complete Technical-Death-Metal-Core head, and you'd obviously teach allot differently for those types of music genres.
Let your son learn what he wants to learn, and allow him to expose himself to as much music as possible that he likes to listen to, he will eventually want to play like the really skilled guitar players in those bands and he will idenitfy HIMSELF what he wants to learn, say if he wanted to do really goo lead work he'd rock up to the teacher and be like "Ay man gimme some scales and legato and tapping and shiz" and so on whatever.
Guitar isn't a school, there's no mother****ing cirricumlum or shiz.
METAL!
#10
Quote by Ultraussie
No. *Insert Obscenity here* off and let your son play what he wants to play.
Guitar is a very very expansive instrument, many different ways you can approach it and play it.
There's going to be the bluesy guys, the classical flamenco dudes, the country chicken-pickers, the Metal shredder's and chuggers, so so so on on on.
A CIRRICULUM for guitar is bullshit, Music is an Artform, and there's many ways of practising art and painting your musical masterpeice.
Your son may be a diehard classical music fan or a complete Technical-Death-Metal-Core head, and you'd obviously teach allot differently for those types of music genres.
Let your son learn what he wants to learn, and allow him to expose himself to as much music as possible that he likes to listen to, he will eventually want to play like the really skilled guitar players in those bands and he will idenitfy HIMSELF what he wants to learn, say if he wanted to do really goo lead work he'd rock up to the teacher and be like "Ay man gimme some scales and legato and tapping and shiz" and so on whatever.
Guitar isn't a school, there's no mother****ing cirricumlum or shiz.


Interesting opinion. How many songs can you play? Are you familiar with both open and barre chords? How are you with major and minor scales? Can you find the key of a song quickly? Do you rely upon tabs to learn songs?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#11
Quote by Ultraussie
Guitar isn't a school, there's no mother****ing cirricumlum or shiz.


yeah, man. it's all about how fast you can play. and it's all subjective. there's no such thing as music being better or worse. like cooking. if you burn a dish, it's just as good as it would be if you didn't burn it. and if you actually know something about music, you're ****ed. once you learn how to construct a chord, you may as well put down that guitar and go sell hot dogs.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#12
Quote by PeterTaps
Folks,

My 13 year old son has been taking guitar lessons for the past 4 years. The problem with most guitar teachers is that they teach was the student wants to learn. There is no methodology in place. I am wondering if there is any curriculum by son can follow. I have seen some other children going through piano curriculum where they clear level 1, level 2, etc. My thought is that the teacher can help him with the curriculum.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Regards,
Peter



If your in the UK,
you can purchase grades, there are RGT, Rockschool are ABRSM grades.

they start from prelim - 8.
then with the RGT ones you can go on to do privately examined diploma's and even degree's such as in teaching.

if you can find a great teacher in your area, get him to go through the grades with your son as you would like a curriculum.
#13
@Ultraussie - Okay, so you're not suggesting that lessons are a bad thing. You mention in your sig that 2/3 of your total playing experience includes lessons, and you acknowledge that you would teach different genres differently.

But then you go on to bash the word "curriculum." Do you know what a curriculum is? A curriculum outlines a course of study and orders the skills and objectives in a fashion that facilitates learning and progress in a manageable and step-wise fashion.

That's just good teaching. Why are you so against that?

I mean, surely, you're not suggesting that any teacher the student goes to should travel without an objective, goal, or plan in place, are you?

Assuming you know (knew) the definition of the word "curriculum", I'm really confused about what you are suggesting.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#14
Quote by axemanchris
A curriculum outlines a course of study and orders the skills and objectives in a fashion that facilitates learning and progress in a manageable and step-wise fashion.


I sound like such a teacher there.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#15
Quote by axemanchris
@Ultraussie - Okay, so you're not suggesting that lessons are a bad thing. You mention in your sig that 2/3 of your total playing experience includes lessons, and you acknowledge that you would teach different genres differently.

But then you go on to bash the word "curriculum." Do you know what a curriculum is? A curriculum outlines a course of study and orders the skills and objectives in a fashion that facilitates learning and progress in a manageable and step-wise fashion.

That's just good teaching. Why are you so against that?

I mean, surely, you're not suggesting that any teacher the student goes to should travel without an objective, goal, or plan in place, are you?

Assuming you know (knew) the definition of the word "curriculum", I'm really confused about what you are suggesting.

CT



"Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?"
Lol! just saw this in your Sig. so many times i feel this.
#16
Quote by Ultraussie
No. *Insert Obscenity here* off and let your son play what he wants to play.
Guitar is a very very expansive instrument, many different ways you can approach it and play it.
There's going to be the bluesy guys, the classical flamenco dudes, the country chicken-pickers, the Metal shredder's and chuggers, so so so on on on.
A CIRRICULUM for guitar is bullshit, Music is an Artform, and there's many ways of practising art and painting your musical masterpeice.
Your son may be a diehard classical music fan or a complete Technical-Death-Metal-Core head, and you'd obviously teach allot differently for those types of music genres.
Let your son learn what he wants to learn, and allow him to expose himself to as much music as possible that he likes to listen to, he will eventually want to play like the really skilled guitar players in those bands and he will idenitfy HIMSELF what he wants to learn, say if he wanted to do really goo lead work he'd rock up to the teacher and be like "Ay man gimme some scales and legato and tapping and shiz" and so on whatever.
Guitar isn't a school, there's no mother****ing cirricumlum or shiz.



What are you? A 10 year old? You can't possibly expect to come into MT with slang like that. "Shiz?" I'm a thirteen year old and have better grammar than you.


As for the issue at hand, your son has been in lessons for four years. He obviously enjoys it or has strong will power. The way my teacher teaches me is that I can decide what and how I want to play and learn. I can go and say to him, "Hey, how can I apply Neapolitan chords to my playing?" and would get some good insight on it. Your son is doing just fine. Let him learn how he wants to learn. There are curriculums that are dedicated to guitar, but they will only show music theory and technique. Something that the guitar teacher is handling.
#17
Everything is alright if your son is learning something new and improves his playing.

I've been taking lessons for around 2 months now and my teacher seems to have pretty similar approach, the difference being that the picks pieces/songs from the genres i like so i enjoy learning much more. I mentioned liking classical, metal and shred, so he gave me some Bach, some Satriani, some Petrucci an all is good because by playing those pieces i got better at fingerpicking, tapping, string skipping etc.
Quote by the_white_bunny
the point of life is to die.
and pay taxes.


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Blasphemy as severe as this is fucking unforgivable and by bullshito code you must commit sudoku for disgracing famirys honoru.
#18
Quote by hr113
Everything is alright if your son is learning something new and improves his playing.

I've been taking lessons for around 2 months now and my teacher seems to have pretty similar approach, the difference being that the picks pieces/songs from the genres i like so i enjoy learning much more. I mentioned liking classical, metal and shred, so he gave me some Bach, some Satriani, some Petrucci an all is good because by playing those pieces i got better at fingerpicking, tapping, string skipping etc.



That's how I think everybody should learn, using what they like to teach them what they should know.
#19
Quote by PeterTaps
Folks,

My 13 year old son has been taking guitar lessons for the past 4 years. The problem with most guitar teachers is that they teach was the student wants to learn. There is no methodology in place. I am wondering if there is any curriculum by son can follow. I have seen some other children going through piano curriculum where they clear level 1, level 2, etc. My thought is that the teacher can help him with the curriculum.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Regards,
Peter


Hi Peter,

We have a very extensive curriculum via our online Guitar Academy, but I'd have to do an evaluation to determine what, if and how we might be able to help. If you'll send me an email address by contacting me through my UG Profile, I'd be happy to send you out a Course Catalog, and I'll do my best to answer any questions you might have as well.

Best,

Sean
#20
Quote by carnagereap666
That's how I think everybody should learn, using what they like to teach them what they should know.


I agree also. A curriculum should describe what concepts and stuff should or can be taught, but a good teacher will choose repertoire that motivates the student to learn those concepts and skills.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#21
Quote by Leigh01
"Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?"
Lol! just saw this in your Sig. so many times i feel this.


I love that quote too. Our bass player "introduced" me to that one.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#22
Also adding to what Sean and Chris have pointed out, if there's no lesson plan/goals set for the student, they realise 4 years later that they know nothing except some random scales and riffs from popular songs.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#23
id say check out the mel bay modern method, or the berklee modern method for guitar. both are very solid, and will teach a student the instrument and technique, in a way that won't make them hate practicing.
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
#24
Quote by AeolianWolf
yeah, man. it's all about how fast you can play. and it's all subjective. there's no such thing as music being better or worse. like cooking. if you burn a dish, it's just as good as it would be if you didn't burn it. and if you actually know something about music, you're ****ed. once you learn how to construct a chord, you may as well put down that guitar and go sell hot dogs.


You need to get your head out of your asshole. Thank you sir.
#25
Quote by SonOfPest
You need to get your head out of your asshole. Thank you sir.


either you're ultraussie or you're completely retarded.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#26
Quote by SonOfPest
You need to get your head out of your asshole. Thank you sir.


He was being facetious.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#27
Quote by tehREALcaptain
id say check out the mel bay modern method, or the berklee modern method for guitar. both are very solid, and will teach a student the instrument and technique, in a way that won't make them hate practicing.


Nooooo!

cannot stand the "modern method" books.
they teach everything in a poor structure from my experience.
get a great teacher, tell him what you want, if he cannot provide it and structure the lessons to his own knowledge and curriculum, then he's only good for teaching songs and techniques.
all truly good guitar teachers can provide their own curriculum which I should hope they have trialed and tested over the years.

if your interested, I could always provide skype lessons for your son, and send tabs, staff notation and so on via email.
just pm me if your interested.
or let me know your area via pm, and i can contact teachers for you to find out who can provide what your after?
#28
Quote by axemanchris
I love that quote too. Our bass player "introduced" me to that one.

CT


its brilliant, lol
so many typical pub singers i hear cranking up their volume tight leathers prancing about on stage like their gods gift to the women and i think that ^ lol!
#29
One of the common threads to this that I've noted is the 'teach them what they want to learn' philosophy.

Well.....yes...and no.

There's certainly a place for maintaining interest by working with a student's interests, but here's the problem...

They are students. Often they don't KNOW what they want, or need, beyond the very limited "I want to be able to play like 'x', or play 'x' song.

It's like teaching physics by asking the students what problems they want to discuss today. It's not just that they don't know the answers, they don't even know enough to ASK THE QUESTIONS.

Curriculum, Goals, Accountability (testing) are all vital parts of efficient learning. Just because it's guitar doesn't change that.
#30
Great points Chris.

That's why before I accept anyone as a Student I find out first, why they want to study with us, and make an assessment of their specific goals and then determine if what we teach is relevant to those needs. And not just in general, but HOW closely do they mesh?

At the Academy everyone learns the same thing, in the same order, they don't choose that, but then no one is complaining either

In dealing with prospects, I just make sure that what they need is what we have, or I send them on their way to someone or somewhere that does.

Best,

Sean
#31
Thank you all for your help.

My son does enjoy guitar. The problem is both the teacher and the student are addicted to Beatles. My son can play most popular Beatles songs. However, he does not want to try any other artist. Also, I think the solos in Beatles songs were okay but not great (my opinion).

I see some other 13 year old kids that do amazing solos. I don't want my son to feel inferior. Hence my thought was to help the student as well as the teacher with a more organized way of teaching.

Some of you mentioned a few links for Guitar curriculum. I will check them out.

Thank you once again for your help.

Regards,
Peter