#1
Hi,
I have a jam track that has the chords E A and B which happen all fall into the E major scale. The problem is that I want to solo using a minor pentatonic scale, so what I did was, I found the relative minor which is C# in this case, but there is no A note in that scale. So my question is how do I find a minor pentatonic scale that I can use?
#2
Why not use that minor pentatonic but stick the A in anyway? That will make it six of the seven notes of the E major scale, why not add the Fsharp too to make it the full scale - you can still primarily target the notes of the pentatonic that you have learned, or if you really want to sound like you know what youre doing highlight the chord tones (root, third, fifth) of the scale you are on and use the other scale notes as passing tones.

Alternatively you could just play the E minor pentatonic scale over that for a bluesy sound.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#3
Quote by Hydra150

Alternatively you could just play the E minor pentatonic scale over that for a bluesy sound.


the g and d naturals in em pent would clash.

why exactly do you need to play the minor pent and only that?
Quote by Kevätuhri
Hail isn't too edgy for posts, posts are not edgy enough for Hail.


Quote by UseYourThumb
You win. I'm done here.
#4
Quote by Hail
why exactly do you need to play the minor pent and only that?


I don't need to play only that, it's just that I want to understand how would I choose a minor pentatonic scale for this situation.
#5
Quote by pasnu
Hi,
I have a jam track that has the chords E A and B which happen all fall into the E major scale. The problem is that I want to solo using a minor pentatonic scale, so what I did was, I found the relative minor which is C# in this case, but there is no A note in that scale. So my question is how do I find a minor pentatonic scale that I can use?


Use the E minor pentatonic over a progression in E major, and you have the essence of the blues sound.

If you play the notes of C# minor penatonic over a progression in E major, and you will be playing the E major pentatonic.


In all honesty, you're better off learning major and minor scales in addition to your pentatonics. Once you have those down you can play all sorts of things over your progression in E.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#6
You can use C# minor pentatonic. E minor pentatonic can also work if that's the sound you're going for, like others have suggested. I probably wouldn't do it outside of a blues context, but that's just me.

Also, you can take the minor modes and make them pentatonic. What I mean is, since F# dorian and G# phrygian are modes of E major, you can play F# minor pentatonic and G# minor pentatonic. You can play the same pentatonic licks you're comfortable with, but they'll sound a little more "outside."
#7
Quote by pasnu
Hi,
I have a jam track that has the chords E A and B which happen all fall into the E major scale. The problem is that I want to solo using a minor pentatonic scale, so what I did was, I found the relative minor which is C# in this case, but there is no A note in that scale. So my question is how do I find a minor pentatonic scale that I can use?


You can use the E Major pentatonic (C#minor pentatonic shape over an E major prog). it doesn't need to have an A in it.

Quote by AlanHB
Use the E minor pentatonic over a progression in E major, and you have the essence of the blues sound.


^ you could do this as well.
shred is gaudy music
#8
Actually

you could just use E minor Pentatonic believe it or not

just add in that sweet M3 (G#) and maybe that b7 (D) and 9 as well (F#)

it really depends on what type of sound your going for

if its not bluesy than id avoid pentatonic in general
Quote by The Spoon
Unless you're sure she likes you, telling her you like her has a 110% chance of failing.

But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
#9
Quote by AlanHB
Use the E minor pentatonic over a progression in E major, and you have the essence of the blues sound.

If you play the notes of C# minor penatonic over a progression in E major, and you will be playing the E major pentatonic.


In all honesty, you're better off learning major and minor scales in addition to your pentatonics. Once you have those down you can play all sorts of things over your progression in E.



what???
#10
I've just read some confusing posts..
so ill just post this for you..


E Major scale you can also play here the (E Major Pentatonic Scale)

Relative minor of E would be
C'# minor, therefore the C# minor pentatonic scale will work great.

also add the blues notes to your pentatonics and youll have a different bluesy sound.

can get interesting, but this should be all you need.
#11
^ pentatonics btw are just Major/Natural Minor Scale without a couple of notes (pure basically put as i dont know your knowledge level)
#12
Quote by Leigh01
what???


The C#m pentatonic has the exact same notes as the E major pentatonic. If you use this set of notes over an E major progression, you will be using E major pentatonic. Your song isn't going to magically resolve to C#m just because you perceive that as the first degree of the scale for a solo.

I'll definitely support anyone who says 'just learn the full Major/Minor scales.' It's only two more notes... .
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#13
Quote by soviet_ska
The C#m pentatonic has the exact same notes as the E major pentatonic. If you use this set of notes over an E major progression, you will be using E major pentatonic. Your song isn't going to magically resolve to C#m just because you perceive that as the first degree of the scale for a solo.

I'll definitely support anyone who says 'just learn the full Major/Minor scales.' It's only two more notes... .



no, the what was to the Eminor over Emajor chord progression, itll just sound dissonant and shit? :S

(in otherwords as a general rule that wouldn't always work depending on the major chord progression)

and of course, im all for people learning the major/modes/minor scale all over the neck.
I teach this in caged system and 3nps.
was just that one section.
Last edited by Leigh01 at Jul 27, 2011,
#14
Quote by Leigh01
no, the what was to the Eminor over Emajor chord progression, itll just sound dissonant and shit? :S


It's blues, baby! E minor would include G and D (the third and seventh), two very popular blue notes in a major key. Hell, the b7 is used incredibly often in otherwise strictly-major Rock, Blues and Funk that it's hard to be surprised by its usage at all.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#15
Just noticed when you said! haha, thanks.
I never looked at it like that.
and also, it wouldn't sound good if someone did that but had the 6th mode (minor aeolian) involved because of the tri-tone clash.

I wouldnt rly have described it that way because of the confusion it could cause if he was to give it a go.

sorry if i seemed like i was just being picky or an asshole or somthing.
Last edited by Leigh01 at Jul 27, 2011,
#16
Quote by pasnu
I don't need to play only that, it's just that I want to understand how would I choose a minor pentatonic scale for this situation.


you wouldn't. it's in major, so you solo in major.

the only one you might choose is E minor pentatonic, to give it a bluesy feel, as others have suggested.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#18
I don't understand how can I use the E minor pentatonic scale? It doesn't have many of the notes of the chords, wouldn't it sound out of place?
#19
Quote by pasnu
I don't understand how can I use the E minor pentatonic scale? It doesn't have many of the notes of the chords, wouldn't it sound out of place?


absolutely -- but that's the essence of the blues.

if you wanted to get theoretical, what's really going on here is that you're just playing E major but throwing in a b3, b5, and b7 -- all common blues accidentals.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#20
Quote by AeolianWolf
absolutely -- but that's the essence of the blues.

if you wanted to get theoretical, what's really going on here is that you're just playing E major but throwing in a b3, b5, and b7 -- all common blues accidentals.

Uuhm isn't that E natural minor your explaining?
You're removing the 2 and 6 if you play penta(5)tonic.
#21
Quote by liampje
Uuhm isn't that E natural minor your explaining?
You're removing the 2 and 6 if you play penta(5)tonic.


no. if you play an E natural minor scale over a progression in E major, you're just playing E major with accidentals.

i mention no b6, and i do mention a b5.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#22
It's not really that complicated TS. Just follow these rules.

1. Scales are collections of notes resolving to a tonic, not shapes on the fretboard. They happen everywhere, not just in a 3 fret box.

2. Whilst it may seem illogical to play a minor over a major, one of the great things about music in keys is that you can play accidentals with no consequence. You can play "any" note, just as long as you think it sounds good. Will some notes sound bad? Sure, but you can figure that one out for yourself - I think some music sounds bad and my mates love it. Personal preference.

3. Don't think about modes, or listen to anybody who mentions them. Ever. Well maybe not ever, but definitely until after you can recognise what key a song is in, and are able to play scales over it without asking us or the internet. I managed to become a gigging guitarist for 7 years before encountering modes, and probably would be none the wiser if I never joined this forum. You can do that fine.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#23
Quote by AeolianWolf
no. if you play an E natural minor scale over a progression in E major, you're just playing E major with accidentals.

i mention no b6, and i do mention a b5.

Quote by AeolianWolf
absolutely -- but that's the essence of the blues.

if you wanted to get theoretical, what's really going on here is that you're just playing E major but throwing in a b3, b5, and b7 -- all common blues accidentals.

Where did you mention no b6, and you still forgot the 2.
E natural minor E F# G A B C D E
E minor pentatonic E G A B D E
There is no 2 in a minor pentatonic.
#24
Quote by liampje
Where did you mention no b6, and you still forgot the 2.
E natural minor E F# G A B C D E
E minor pentatonic E G A B D E
There is no 2 in a minor pentatonic.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say but:

Natural minor: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
AeolianWolf's major scale with accidentals: 1 2 b3 4 b5 6 b7

I'm not sure why you brought minor pentatonic to this.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#25
Quote by Flibo
I'm not sure what you're trying to say but:

Natural minor: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
AeolianWolf's major scale with accidentals: 1 2 b3 4 b5 6 b7

I'm not sure why you brought minor pentatonic to this.


to be honest, the major scale with accidentals would be 1 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 6 b7 7 -- basically everything without the b2 and b6 (which, depending on the harmonies, are completely possible as accidentals, but that's for another thread).

but yeah, you get it. i don't know how the minor pentatonic got involved.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#26
Quote by pasnu
I don't understand how can I use the E minor pentatonic scale? It doesn't have many of the notes of the chords, wouldn't it sound out of place?

Quote by AeolianWolf
absolutely -- but that's the essence of the blues.

if you wanted to get theoretical, what's really going on here is that you're just playing E major but throwing in a b3, b5, and b7 -- all common blues accidentals.

You quoted the top post which confused me.
My bad, sorry.
#27
well i say either use the E major pentatonic (C# minor) or use the E minor pentatonic scale .... or just use the entire major/minor scales its only 2 notes anyway. And also don't be afraid to use a scale that doesn't have all the chord roots in it, C# is the 3rd of an A chord anyway and your solo does not have to sound perfectly consonant anyway, using some "wrong" notes will make your solo alot more intersting
#28
just include the note. you dont have to use STRICTLY what the minor pent is...who cares...ittl sound good any way if youll end up to the note the right way and land exactly on it as the backing track does it'll sound fine. nothing will be out whack. or you can just use the key of e major...and incorporate all 7 seven modes...its not difficult. there are plenty of choices and options.
GEARZ

Schecter Hellraiser
TS 808 modded tubescreamer
MXR six band EQ
boss DD-3 digital delay
Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble
ISP Decimator
1998 Marshall JCM2000 DSL 100
Avatar 4x12
#29
Quote by AeolianWolf
to be honest, the major scale with accidentals would be 1 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 6 b7 7 -- basically everything without the b2 and b6 (which, depending on the harmonies, are completely possible as accidentals, but that's for another thread).

but yeah, you get it. i don't know how the minor pentatonic got involved.

I probably should've understood it that way I feel stupid
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#30
Quote by AlanHB
It's not really that complicated TS. Just follow these rules.

1. Scales are collections of notes resolving to a tonic, not shapes on the fretboard. They happen everywhere, not just in a 3 fret box.

2. Whilst it may seem illogical to play a minor over a major, one of the great things about music in keys is that you can play accidentals with no consequence. You can play "any" note, just as long as you think it sounds good. Will some notes sound bad? Sure, but you can figure that one out for yourself - I think some music sounds bad and my mates love it. Personal preference.

3. Don't think about modes, or listen to anybody who mentions them. Ever. Well maybe not ever, but definitely until after you can recognise what key a song is in, and are able to play scales over it without asking us or the internet. I managed to become a gigging guitarist for 7 years before encountering modes, and probably would be none the wiser if I never joined this forum. You can do that fine.


is it me or does this dick make shit up as he goes along, complicates threads and then basically tries to shit on everyone?

you must be a shit gigging guitarist if you went 7 years without encountering modes, that or dumb.
most of modern day music is influenced and created around the modal system.
#31
Quote by Leigh01
is it me or does this dick make shit up as he goes along, complicates threads and then basically tries to shit on everyone?

you must be a shit gigging guitarist if you went 7 years without encountering modes, that or dumb.
most of modern day music is influenced and created around the modal system.



I think I feel a ban coming!


Anyway, don't think that you need to stick strictly to patterns and scales. If you play a bad note, you are one note away from a good one. You might enjoy playing in pentatonics, but you need to explore your musicianship. Break your own boundaries, step out of your comfort zone. That's what good musicians do.
#32
Quote by carnagereap666
I think I feel a ban coming!


Anyway, don't think that you need to stick strictly to patterns and scales. If you play a bad note, you are one note away from a good one. You might enjoy playing in pentatonics, but you need to explore your musicianship. Break your own boundaries, step out of your comfort zone. That's what good musicians do.


+1

I will get banned, but he's being so up his own ass just cos he's a moderator, pretty lame and pathetic.
and he's given so much worthless wrong and confusing information.
I don't understand how anyone can bash modal theory, tech yes it is all put down as major or minor, but its denying so much to put it down to one scale.
and as you said, your always 1 note away from a good one.
#33
Quote by Leigh01
most of modern day music is influenced and created around the modal system.


you're right, dude -- our key systems came from the modes. around bach's time. but you didn't know that. you probably wouldn't know a damn thing about music outside "modern day music". and that's why you're incapable of seeing how incorrect you are, because of your limited knowledge & experience. and your complete and utter disrespect for those who know more than you (although you seem to play the ego tricks you accuse us of playing to make yourself seem right) is not only irritating, but shows an abundance of ignorance.

it saddens me that the world will never be rid of weeds like you. now why don't you go play D dorian over a Dm7 chord in the key of C, if that's how you get yourself off.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#34
Quote by Leigh01
is it me or does this dick make shit up as he goes along, complicates threads and then basically tries to shit on everyone?

you must be a shit gigging guitarist if you went 7 years without encountering modes, that or dumb.
most of modern day music is influenced and created around the modal system.

You couldn't be more wrong. You have absolutely no understanding of modal music if you think that statement is accurate. Modes are in fact more restrictive (ie if you don't follow the rules, then its no longer modal, it becomes tonal) than tonal music, which is why the vast majority music for the past three hundred or so years has been based on the tonal system. That makes it entirely possible and reasonable for a long time gigging guitarist to not encounter them or have a use for them.
No one is bashing modal theory. It's just that there is so much misinformation about modes out there that people get the wrong impression. Play the major scale starting on X note is does not mean you are playing a mode. Then we have people like you who are giving out so much wrong and confusing information that doesn't help the situation.
On top of that, you're the one being a prick.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#35
Quote by rockingamer2
Play the major scale starting on X note is does not mean you are playing a mode.


Oh, I never get tired of that one.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#36
Am I missing something or do you guys seem to think anyone who ever mentions modes on this forum want to play true modal music? Since modes are so utterly useless, why can't we just use them to name scales for suggestive play? To me it seems that the mode information on this forum is a little inbred and that you could find very differing views from educated musicians outside of here. I'm not saying you're wrong about anything, but thinking anyone asking about modes on this forum actually wanting to compose modal music is naive.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#37
Quote by Flibo
Am I missing something or do you guys seem to think anyone who ever mentions modes on this forum want to play true modal music? Since modes are so utterly useless, why can't we just use them to name scales for suggestive play? To me it seems that the mode information on this forum is a little inbred and that you could find very differing views from educated musicians outside of here. I'm not saying you're wrong about anything, but thinking anyone asking about modes on this forum actually wanting to compose modal music is naive.

People can learn and make modal music if they want to. There's nothing wrong with learning about modes. Learning more theory is a good thing and modes can give you more options. But it's that modes are mostly seen as a holy grail to guitarists that will make their playing and writing abilities amazing when in fact it is not. This encourages guitarists to skip over more important and more useful concepts in favor of a misguided view of modes, when it would be much better to get a strong understanding of tonal music before getting into modes. It's like trying to do algebra before learning how to multiply, but with people's view of algebra being skewed in the first place.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#38
Quote by Leigh01
is it me or does this dick make shit up as he goes along, complicates threads and then basically tries to shit on everyone?

you must be a shit gigging guitarist if you went 7 years without encountering modes, that or dumb.
most of modern day music is influenced and created around the modal system.


It's definitely you. You are the most classless individual I have ever seen here in my almost 4000 posts and almost 2 years of being here in Musician Talk. It would be a good idea to mature a bit more before trying to teach anyone, and to learn some self-control with regards to your anger management/respect issues.

Best,

Sean
#39
^ Oh c'mon he fits in perfect. This place thrives on that sort of thing.


Quote by rockingamer2
modes are mostly seen as a holy grail to guitarists that will make their playing and writing abilities amazing when in fact it is not.


There definitely is a crowd that chases fancy words as a means of achieving status or the feeling of being "advanced" and those modal names sure are alluring, especially when being sold by a cool looking shredder dude that we all sooo want to be like. But hey if it's not modes, It'll be something else. Any fancy word, or seemingly advanced concept will do. Counter point, 12-tet tuning, Neapolitan chords.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 30, 2011,
#40
Quote by Leigh01
is it me or does this dick make shit up as he goes along, complicates threads and then basically tries to shit on everyone?

you must be a shit gigging guitarist if you went 7 years without encountering modes, that or dumb.
most of modern day music is influenced and created around the modal system.


It's you.