#2
if you can have more people workin on a song give more ideas , opinions to help each other out why not .
#3
Ego management is the biggest thing, same as having 2 guitarists. You have to give everyone something to do that they feel is important. Once one of them decides "why should I be rhythm instead of lead?" you're in trouble.
#4
i think it is good but as necronomicon said ego management is key. songwriting can be very touchy. you have to write a song but not think of it as a child or a baby or else you will get extremely defensive/butt hurt when someone offers their opinion. in my band there are two main songwriters, myself and the singer. we usually bring the completed song in, bass and drums add their own parts, and then me and the other song writer will usually say, i think you need this here, or that there, maybe we can change the vocal melody here on this part. if you dont take it too personally while still fighting for what you think sounds best then you should be ok. i always say when someone has an idea, try it by playing it, you will know once it is played if it is beneficial or detrimental

just to be plain though, take all emotion out of it. preface that all the time. i usually do this approach: "hey so i really like the idea for the bridge, lets try doing a transition though like this, lets just play it a couple of times and then we will talk about how that sounds, if it works great, if not lets just keep it how it is." you have to be assertive though or else crap songs will just pour out.
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#5
Quote by thejester
just to be plain though, take all emotion out of it.
this. emotion goes in the song. once someones written it, they have to remove themself from the attachment to it. if they cant do that, they shouldnt show the song to the other people.

if the songwriters can accept constructive criticism, and can work together as a team once the initial idea has been brought up, then yeah, it'd be alright
#6
For John and Paul, whoever did the majority of the work on the song in question sang the lead parts. That seems to be a superb system: instead of feeling entitled to perform the more glamorous part (be it lead singing or lead guitar or whatever,) you would have to earn the right by putting the song together in the first place.

Having two (or more) people put their heads together can bring new perspectives and ideas to the table, but it isn't for everyone. I cannot work with others in a creative context, at least in a partnership situation. If I need advice/opinions or if I have someone in more of an advising role, that's one thing, but I do not play well with others.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#7
For me the key is, as other have said, accepting the input without seeing it as criticism.

Also, on occasion you will find a song that you (or the other person) get attached to. That's ok as well, with the following caveat.

Remember, for every time they give you a 'win' (do it your way, even if they disagree), you're at some point going to have to give (at least) one back...

Personally I try to give my collaborators the benefit of the doubt as often as possible, so when I do dig my heels in a get stubborn, I have a lot of 'compromise points' built up...

Quote by soviet_ska
For John and Paul, whoever did the majority of the work on the song in question sang the lead parts. That seems to be a superb system: instead of feeling entitled to perform the more glamorous part (be it lead singing or lead guitar or whatever,) you would have to earn the right by putting the song together in the first place.

Having two (or more) people put their heads together can bring new perspectives and ideas to the table, but it isn't for everyone. I cannot work with others in a creative context, at least in a partnership situation. If I need advice/opinions or if I have someone in more of an advising role, that's one thing, but I do not play well with others.


It's a learned skill, not an inherent trait. If you can't do it, it's because you've chosen not to learn the skill.

Your life, your choices, but I see it as mental laziness.
Last edited by Arby911 at Jul 29, 2011,
#8
Quote by Arby911
It's a learned skill, not an inherent trait. If you can't do it, it's because you've chosen not to learn the skill.


Perhaps I used the wrong phrase: I can work with others, but I can't stand doing so.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#9
Quote by soviet_ska
Perhaps I used the wrong phrase: I can work with others, but I can't stand doing so.


It's often very frustrating, and I'm not trying to be a dick here, since from what I've seen of your postings you're a pretty reasonable sort, but as I said, it's a learned skill.

Usually the frustration comes from the inability to adequately communicate what you are trying to do, the other party's inability to understand (and vice-versa in both cases) or both.

But it can be learned, it just takes time, effort and desire.
#10
Quote by Arby911
It's often very frustrating, and I'm not trying to be a dick here, since from what I've seen of your postings you're a pretty reasonable sort, but as I said, it's a learned skill.

Usually the frustration comes from the inability to adequately communicate what you are trying to do, the other party's inability to understand (and vice-versa in both cases) or both.

But it can be learned, it just takes time, effort and desire.


Well, I won't spend a whole thread defending myself here, but I agree, you can learn to do anything you want to.

It comes down to roles, I suppose. I take a dominant role in these sort of situations; to make a partnership work effectively with a dominant person, there needs to be a submissive partner. Two dominant partners create a power struggle and high emotions but two submissive partners won't get much done.

So we're clear: I don't mean dominant and submissive as in who decides everything and who has creative control, but more in the sense that someone needs to direct the flow of work and establish goals. I've always looked for people like myself to work with (since, hey, we'll get along,) but I guess this has just been leading me into a bad situation where we both try to steer in different directions.

Graham Chapman and John Cleese (from Monty Python's Flying Circus) had a sort of dominant-submissive partnership. Being a skilled writer, Cleese came up with most of the sketch ideas. Chapman mostly let Cleese work, but would throw out additional ideas or otherwise augment the idea to make the most out of it. The Dead Parrot sketch actually started as Cleese returning some regular household item, but Chapman wanted to make it ridiculous and suggested a dead animal. The results? Brilliance.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#11
In every band I've been in multiple people wrote. In the case of my first band, I wrote the majority and people added their two cents. Now, if you have an idea, throw it out there, cause it might just make the song better.

And I avoid the "I wanna play lead" ego thing by making sure I have interesting parts for all the instruments. And, if there's a specific lead guitar for a song, I typically have it switch guitars so as to keep tones interesting.
#12
Quote by psychbunnies
Positives and Negatives?

What about egos? how to deal with that?

thanks


Like any relationship...
Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Find out through your own experiences.
There is no way to pre-plan for success in regards to writing music with other people.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 29, 2011,
#14
im going to use black sabbath as in example

In The black sabbath years with ozzy , geezer wrote most of the lyrics and his stuff was moslty about the politics and stuff that happens in life, but with the years with dio, Dio wrote the lyrics, and he used stuff based of fantasy so thier lyric style did change.


but what my point is , is when people write lyrics there going to base it on stuff, some might be fantasy, real life, emotions, a goats heart (lol) or whatever they feel comfortable with. And when your in band imo you should of one lyrical stlye and not a bunch.
#15
If youre in a band with people you enjoy being around and the other writes decent lyrics its extremly good to do. Im a fan of dual vocal and lyrical bands, so for me its a plus. If egos are an issue, you shouldnt be in the band.
#17
There's three songwriters in our band. One of us will bring something in, then the others will contribute, suggest changes or even write another verse. Sometimes one of us will write an entire song, then the other three members will in some cases change a lot, or nothing at all. I think it's good to have more input and different ideas, as long as everyone agrees on the final outcome.