#1
Hey all.

I'm trying to figure out the key of this song called Flesh and blood sacrifice by Poison.
I can't find the key center because I normally would check what notes there are in the song and chords and then find a matching scale.
But this song has accidentals as I can't find a matching scale.
I think it is B major, but I just think that I felt it (probably felt it wrong).
How do I know where something resolves to?
#3
Quote by UnmagicMushroom
I come up with Eb major.

B major doesn't feel right to me.

It's tuned half step down.
So I said B major but I meant A#.
But how did you found Eb major?
#4
Quote by liampje
Hey all.

I'm trying to figure out the key of this song called Flesh and blood sacrifice by Poison.
I can't find the key center because I normally would check what notes there are in the song and chords and then find a matching scale.
But this song has accidentals as I can't find a matching scale.
I think it is B major, but I just think that I felt it (probably felt it wrong).
How do I know where something resolves to?


Listen for it.
shred is gaudy music
#5
Quote by liampje
It's tuned half step down.
So I said B major but I meant A#.
But how did you found Eb major?



Keys are named by their sounding pitches, not by the fret numbers they use on a guitar.
#6
Listening to where it resolves to is a really good and accurate way of determining the key. This song sounds like it's in the key of Bb. You could also learn to hear the accidentals and separate them from the notes in the key.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#7
Quote by liampje
It's tuned half step down.
So I said B major but I meant A#.
But how did you found Eb major?


A key doesn't depend on what tuning an instrument is in. If a song is in Bb major, it's in Bb major whether the guitar is in standard tuning, drop d, drop a.. etc.

Also, it would be less practical to write it as A# major versus Bb major.

A# major: A# B# Cx D# E# Fx Gx
Bb major: Bb C D Eb F G A

10 sharps vs. 2 flats..hmm
#8
Quote by liampje
It's tuned half step down.
So I said B major but I meant A#.
But how did you found Eb major?


Well, I started playing the song and played the B major scale up and down but it didn't feel right to me especially when I got to E and F#. Then I just noodled around and found that, to my ear, the G, F and Eb note sounded good - so from that I started to formulate a scale and came up with Eb major. I'm not saying I'm right - that's just what it sounded like to me. Mind you, I didn't see the song to the end; my internet connection is a tad slow and I didn't have to patience to wait for the song to finish loading.


I'll just stop now....
#10
Quote by Sean0913
This. Where does the song sound and feel "resolved"? What chord? Your way works sometimes but not always.

Best,

Sean

To me it feels like Bb major.
I have no technique on finding this.
That's what I listened, but did I do it right.
#12
Quote by Sean0913
Yes, I agree with the Bb part, but I think that the Eb that's in it is the bIII, and it sound's overall Major in terms of tone and that's why I'd see the Ab as bVII in function.

Sean

So you agree with me it is in Bb major.
But you think that the Eb that is in the song functions as a bIII?
So what you say is that the Eb functions like it would in C major?
And you say that the Ab functions as the bVII chord so also in C major?
But why do you agree with the Bb major part then?
#13
My bad, I was thinking 2 things at once...basically I got Bb and C mixed up in a way that makes sense to me but would be too long and involved for anyone else...it's was a complete mental ding on my part. Yes Bb and Eb as the IV (not the bIII) and Ab is still the bVII...

There ya go!

Best,

Sean
#14
Quote by Sean0913
My bad, I was thinking 2 things at once...basically I got Bb and C mixed up in a way that makes sense to me but would be too long and involved for anyone else...it's was a complete mental ding on my part. Yes Bb and Eb as the IV (not the bIII) and Ab is still the bVII...

There ya go!

Best,

Sean

Ok but, I don't think I would be able to do this again.
Do you know some other songs?
EDIT: Can you hear if a chord is mediant dominant and those things?
Last edited by liampje at Jul 31, 2011,
#15
Quote by liampje
Ok but, I don't think I would be able to do this again.
Do you know some other songs?
EDIT: Can you hear if a chord is mediant dominant and those things?

um...idk abt most people but i usually dont have to know the function of all the chords before i can tell the key. i hear one chord in the song that sounds most "at home" and i realize "thats where it resolves, that is my I chord, that's what the key is" and then i figure out how to play the rest of the song after that. sometimes i also need to hear where the V chord is, but not usually.
#16
Quote by TMVATDI
um...idk abt most people but i usually dont have to know the function of all the chords before i can tell the key. i hear one chord in the song that sounds most "at home" and i realize "thats where it resolves, that is my I chord, that's what the key is" and then i figure out how to play the rest of the song after that. sometimes i also need to hear where the V chord is, but not usually.

What are your other techniques on finding key centers except listening en checking the notes?
Btw I lost the link of walter piston, I bookmarked it on my old computer but I got a new one now.
#17
Quote by liampje
What are your other techniques on finding key centers except listening en checking the notes?
Btw I lost the link of walter piston, I bookmarked it on my old computer but I got a new one now.


The problem you're facing is that you're just taking the notes and trying to find a scale/key in it.

If I give you the notes CDEFGAB you can find lots of scales there. C major is the most obvious. It could also be A minor. It could be a modal scale. However the resolution of the song will then tell you which scale/key it is. If it resolves to C, it's C major. If it's A, A minor.

So your best bet is to pay attention to what everyone else is saying - find the resolution of the song.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#18
Quote by liampje
What are your other techniques on finding key centers except listening en checking the notes?
Btw I lost the link of walter piston, I bookmarked it on my old computer but I got a new one now.

I have absolutely no other technique, I just listen.

Screw Walter Piston, its too boring and complicated for you to understand (not an insult, its too boring and complicated for me too), I just posted a lesson here (hopefully my first of many), check them out instead.
#19
Quote by AlanHB
The problem you're facing is that you're just taking the notes and trying to find a scale/key in it.

If I give you the notes CDEFGAB you can find lots of scales there. C major is the most obvious. It could also be A minor. It could be a modal scale. However the resolution of the song will then tell you which scale/key it is. If it resolves to C, it's C major. If it's A, A minor.

So your best bet is to pay attention to what everyone else is saying - find the resolution of the song.

So there is really no technique to resolving it just is in your ears?
#20
Quote by TMVATDI
I have absolutely no other technique, I just listen.

Screw Walter Piston, its too boring and complicated for you to understand (not an insult, its too boring and complicated for me too), I just posted a lesson here (hopefully my first of many), check them out instead.

Part 2 of berklee music theory is no option I'm not a sight reader and that's how they teach.
Do you know any other theory book?
And I'll check your lesson :P.
#21
Quote by liampje
So there is really no technique to resolving it just is in your ears?

some people have fancy little tricks, but if you need to use one you're kind of less of a musician than if you can just figure it out by ear. train your ear because having a good ear is a big part of being a good musician.

Part 2 of berklee music theory is no option I'm not a sight reader and that's how they teach.
Do you know any other theory book?
And I'll check your lesson :P.

no, most books suck. but you should learn to read music, you don't have to be a fluent sight reader yet, but reading and theory go hand-in-hand. sheet music is just part of being a musician.

edit: also my lesson isn't up there yet, they take like 2 days to review it and they don't work on weekends, so it'll be up in a couple days. this first one is probably stuff you know well enough, but you should still review it, the next lesson will go onto stuff about the different minor scales.
Last edited by TMVATDI at Jul 31, 2011,
#22
Quote by TMVATDI
some people have fancy little tricks, but if you need to use one you're kind of less of a musician than if you can just figure it out by ear. train your ear because having a good ear is a big part of being a good musician.


no, most books suck. but you should learn to read music, you don't have to be a fluent sight reader yet, but reading and theory go hand-in-hand. sheet music is just part of being a musician.

edit: also my lesson isn't up there yet, they take like 2 days to review it and they don't work on weekends, so it'll be up in a couple days. this first one is probably stuff you know well enough, but you should still review it, the next lesson will go onto stuff about the different minor scales.

You mean like harmonic minor melodic minor traditional descending and real descending?
#23
Quote by liampje
You mean like harmonic minor melodic minor traditional descending and real descending?

the 2nd lesson will cover:

the natural minor scale
--methods of construction
-------relative scales
-------parallel scales
-------WhWWhWW
--chords in the scale
the minor pentatonic scale (brief bit on construction and use)
the harmonic minor scale
--what its for and why it came into use
--chords in the scale
the melodic minor scale
--what its for and why it came into use
--discussion over "ascending and descending differently"
--chords in the scale
#24
Quote by liampje
So there is really no technique to resolving it just is in your ears?


Well, music is a listening art... .

Notice that you have the chords Eb, Ab and Bb. Without having the song to listen to, almost anyone would've called it a I - IV - V in Eb; however, in context, it turned out to be a IV - bVII - I in Bb. There's still a functional tonic - pre-dominant - dominant progression going on, but in a different key.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#25
Quote by TMVATDI
the 2nd lesson will cover:

the natural minor scale
--methods of construction
-------relative scales
-------parallel scales
-------WhWWhWW
--chords in the scale
the minor pentatonic scale (brief bit on construction and use)
the harmonic minor scale
--what its for and why it came into use
--chords in the scale
the melodic minor scale
--what its for and why it came into use
--discussion over "ascending and descending differently"
--chords in the scale

I noticed a grammar error ''it won't hurt you're music...''.
Am I so musical that I litterarily AM music? lol.
I don't even know that litterarily is spelled correctly lol.
I'll check your lesson now.
#26
Quote by liampje
I don't even know that litterarily is spelled correctly lol.


'Literally.'
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.