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#1
Hello again all....Looking into buying a new Gibson Traditional (desert burst preferably) tried one out the other day and it was fantastic. Problem is staring a masters degree in september and will need the money! My guitar teacher recommended I look at some of the cheaper Japanese Tokai guitars as an alternative.

The frets in my strat are nerarly nackered so it needs to go and is not worth the price to get it re fretted, though I would like to keep it for sentimental reasons. To buy the Gibson I would have to sell the strat and really tighten the belt for the year. If I get the Tokai I keep the strat and have some more pocket money.( down the line once I get a job job the gibson will be mine then!)

Option 1 - Tokai http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/tokai_love_rock_ls90q_violin_finish.asp
830 euro

Option 2 - Gibson
http://www.waltons.ie/Product/View.aspx?id=11414&cid=272
1800 euro... my local shop can beat that price for me by about 100e

Problem is that there is no where near me to try out a Tokai. I hear great and not so great things about them. Same can be said for Gibson.

Can I get any advice from ye on how good they actually care, how the two compare and any general info that may help inform my decision such as ordering from UK and Germany differences or pick up info.

PS...Yes I am aware that only Gibsons are Gibsons, they are cooler etc etc etc, Im looking at quality of instruments, everyone would love a Gibson but double the price nearly???
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#2
well i dont doubt the gibson may b a bit better, but i doubt its MUCH better.....the tokai is a much better value.

if you dont mind not having a gibson go with the tokai....thats what i would do; money left over, you dont have to sell your strat..
#3
If you want a gibson then get a gibson. in the end itll be worth it having exactly what you want and not a copy.
#4
Quote by Seanthesheep
If you want a gibson then get a gibson. in the end itll be worth it having exactly what you want and not a copy.


I get what you are saying, I will get it down the line, the question kinda is are the Tokai as good value/QUALITY and therefore the better option for me now?

Have you got to play one yet?
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#5
if you really want a gibson, keep an eye on the waltons site- they have a bunch of 50% off offers at the minute (including a gibson for definite every friday), so you might get lucky.

That being said if the one you want doesn't come up (or someone else gets it first), Japanese Tokais are very, very nice indeed. Lub MIJ Tokais. So they're definitely worth considering.

Quote by Seanthesheep
If you want a gibson then get a gibson. in the end itll be worth it having exactly what you want and not a copy.


while i agree to a certain extent, that if you're the kind of person who won't be happy unless it says "gibson" on it, you might as well just get the gibson, MIJ Tokais aren't copies in the way, say, epiphone or vintage are. They're kickass guitars.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
Just from what I've heard, the lower end tokais are in the rage of say, MIJ epiphones. But the higher end tokais are every bit as good as custom shop gibsons. I personally have no experience with them, just from I've read quite a bit.
#7
Quote by pugachev
Just from what I've heard, the lower end tokais are in the rage of say, MIJ epiphones. But the higher end tokais are every bit as good as custom shop gibsons. I personally have no experience with them, just from I've read quite a bit.


Thanks, I have heard the same, appearantly the LS80 upwards are supposed to be as good if not better than a LP standard. The problem is that its tricky to get info on them. The mylespaul forums just have pictures of them and guys saying they are cool etc.

There is not substitute to trying one, trying to gather enough info to decide is it wortj driving over the border as a few shops in the north stock them
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Last edited by gerrywm at Jul 30, 2011,
#8
Quote by Dave_Mc
if you really want a gibson, keep an eye on the waltons site- they have a bunch of 50% off offers at the minute (including a gibson for definite every friday), so you might get lucky.

That being said if the one you want doesn't come up (or someone else gets it first), Japanese Tokais are very, very nice indeed. Lub MIJ Tokais. So they're definitely worth considering.


Thanks for that Dave, was kinda hoping you would spot this thread. If I am going to drop the cash on a Gibson id have to get to play it and feel it up a bit. Only online guitar shop id trust is Thomann as their techs are A1 its very rare you hear of a bad guitar coming off them. Moving to Dublin so Il keep two eyes on Waltons, arent they the Irish Gibson agents??
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
06 Fender Mex Strat - SDJb Jr, duckbucker, lil 59
Floor
Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
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Laney GH50 with Zilla Fatboy 2x12 (celestion g12-65)
Last edited by gerrywm at Jul 30, 2011,
#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
while i agree to a certain extent, that if you're the kind of person who won't be happy unless it says "gibson" on it, you might as well just get the gibson, MIJ Tokais aren't copies in the way, say, epiphone or vintage are. They're kickass guitars.


well Im also saying, If hes played the gibson and loved it, then get the gibson. ofc if it not practical, due to money or some other circumstances there are awesome "copies". but my main point i guess is that if its proven that he likes the gibson alot, after playing it, then i wouldnt take the rest in buying blindly a MiJ "copy" even though in realtity they can be just as good as the american counterpart
#10
^ yep, sure.

^^ no idea, but they definitely do seem to stock a fair few of them.

you could take a look at the tokai forums for more info. It's very difficult to compare specific tokais to specific gibsons because the specs very rarely match up exactly. For example, an ls80 might be "as good" a guitar as a gibson les paul standard, but as far as i'm aware they have 3-piece backs, plain maple top (or plain maple with figured veneer top) and a poly finish, versus 1-piece backs, solid flamed maple top and nitro respectively on the gibsons. However, i think the tokais have a longer neck tenon, which is more vintage-accurate than most of the non-CS gibsons are. They probably have 500k pots too, while i think the cheaper gibsons have 300k (though admittedly that's a fairly easy fix).

It really depends on which specs you care about more. Also with the very strong yen tokais are dearer than they used to be, too, which is annoying.

If you are making the trip up north i'd ring or email first to make sure they have what you want in stock...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 30, 2011,
#13
Get the tokai, hands down. I have an 83 tokai random star...still plays and sounds amazing, if that attests to durability and build quality.
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#14
Quote by Duv
Buy it on finance?

We have some good options in the UK - the interest free arts council grant / buy now pay for it in a year (through Barclays and GuitarGuitar) - maybe you have something similar...?


nah i'm pretty sure ireland has about 4 euros to last it until next winter until the next bond payments
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
Quote by BreeBreeMiikey
Get the tokai, hands down. I have an 83 tokai random star...still plays and sounds amazing, if that attests to durability and build quality.


The mid 1980s Tokai are supposed to be amazing but like hens teeth, thanks for the input. All the forums seem to discuss the merits of the 80s tokai thats why im finding it hard to get info on the newer models
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#16
Quote by Duv
Buy it on finance?

We have some good options in the UK - the interest free arts council grant / buy now pay for it in a year (through Barclays and GuitarGuitar) - maybe you have something similar...?


Thanks for the suggestion, not gigging at the moment so cannot justify going into depth for a guitar. (be it an amazing guitar at that)
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
06 Fender Mex Strat - SDJb Jr, duckbucker, lil 59
Floor
Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
Amp
Laney GH50 with Zilla Fatboy 2x12 (celestion g12-65)
#17
I own a Gibson Les Paul Custom and a Tokai Love Rock and I would say the Tokai is better.
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#18
Quote by Tokai09
I own a Gibson Les Paul Custom and a Tokai Love Rock and I would say the Tokai is better.


What model/year tokai?? All with standard pups etc?
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#20
For 830 Euro

"The Tokai LS100Q Electric Guitar is made in Japan and sports a stunning quilted maple top. The main body of the guitar is solid Mahogany with a one piece set Mahogany neck. The instrument has losts of natural sustain and you'd expect from a Les Paul style instrument

Specifications - Tokai Love Rock LS100Q Lemon Drop
Made in Japan
Maple Top
Mahogany Back
Mahogany One Piece Set-Neck
Rosewood Fingerboard
22 Frets
LS-VB Bridge
LS-VT Tailpiece
Bone Nut (43.0mm)
Dish Inlays
PAF-Vintage MK2 (Made In Japan)
2 x Volume, 2 x Tone
3way Toggle Switch

That seems like a pretty good spec like.... What are the pick ups like though??
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
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Floor
Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
Amp
Laney GH50 with Zilla Fatboy 2x12 (celestion g12-65)
#21
get the Tokai. MIJ guitars are the bomb!!!

I have a late 1980's MIJ Burny les paul and it's better than a lot of todays gibsons.
Guitars
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#22
Quote by holycow
get the Tokai. MIJ guitars are the bomb!!!

I have a late 1980's MIJ Burny les paul and it's better than a lot of todays gibsons.


I hear nothing but good things about burny and Tokai guitars from the 80s. Pity I was wearing nappys instead of buying guitars back then
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
06 Fender Mex Strat - SDJb Jr, duckbucker, lil 59
Floor
Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
Amp
Laney GH50 with Zilla Fatboy 2x12 (celestion g12-65)
#23
It's really a question of whether you want just a Les Paul or a Gibson Les Paul. MIJ Tokais are always going to be nice but if you've always had your heart set on a Gibson Les Paul then a Tokai is never going to please you and you'll end up spending more money down the road when you eventually cave and buy the Gibson. If what you really want is a Gibson Les Paul and if you want to be smart with your money then just wait. Gibson aren't going anywhere. Save up more and get the guitar you really want.

If on the other hand you just want a good Les Paul then yeah go for the Tokai. They're great guitars are more than good enough for everyone but the absolute top pros.
#24
Many people get off on bashing Gibson and their quality control, but I've seen quite a few f-ed up Japanese guitars around.

It sounds like you are someone that will keep a guitar forever if you can, so I say get one that you can play and know for sure is perfect for you. If you can't play the Tokai, then it is out. What if you bought Tokai based on the recommendations and hype and realized you would rather have a Gibson?

It seems like the extra money would be for peace of mind, and sometimes that's not a bad thing to buy.
#25
Unfortunately, being overseas, you pay too much for the USA made Gibsons to begin with. At around 1.5X exchange rate you're being hit with an equivalent price of 2700USD for the Trad which sells here for considerably less (2200 CDN & 2000USD) and that same 2700 USD would get you a new R7 or R8 plain top VOS RI here.
Gibsons are great guitars when you get a good one but you really should try before buy, or if that's not possible have a qualified person, whon you trust on the other end screen one out for you. Many vendors that sell on line do this but just as many simply pick one out of stock and ship it off.
Moving on.....
#26
Quote by Duv
yeh forgot about that




Quote by gerrywm
For 830 Euro

"The Tokai LS100Q Electric Guitar is made in Japan and sports a stunning quilted maple top. The main body of the guitar is solid Mahogany with a one piece set Mahogany neck. The instrument has losts of natural sustain and you'd expect from a Les Paul style instrument

Specifications - Tokai Love Rock LS100Q Lemon Drop
Made in Japan
Maple Top
Mahogany Back
Mahogany One Piece Set-Neck
Rosewood Fingerboard
22 Frets
LS-VB Bridge
LS-VT Tailpiece
Bone Nut (43.0mm)
Dish Inlays
PAF-Vintage MK2 (Made In Japan)
2 x Volume, 2 x Tone
3way Toggle Switch

That seems like a pretty good spec like.... What are the pick ups like though??


i think they're meant to be quite good. I'm not sure if i've tried those exact ones, i tried a more expensive tokai lp but I'm not sure if the pickups were the same. i know the pickups in my breezysound are pretty nice.

if you don't care about the quilt top you can get a plain top model for a bit less. far as i'm aware they're the same thing apart from the top.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Quote by grohl1987

If on the other hand you just want a good Les Paul then yeah go for the Tokai. They're great guitars are more than good enough for everyone but the absolute top pros.






(Invalid img)

EDIT: don't get me wrong- if you won't be happy unless it says "Gibson" on it, then get a Gibson. I agree in that respect. But don't act like the Tokais are "worse". There are tokais which cost as much as gibson custom shop guitars. I think that qualifies as "pro quality".
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 31, 2011,
#28
Quote by gerrywm
What model/year tokai?? All with standard pups etc?


It's 2007, made in China and it has Vintage PAF's
Mark Tremonti: I have my own mixer on stage so I can alter my volmes while on stage

Myles Kennedy: And why's that Mark?

Mark Tremonti:....I have trust issues with the sound guy



Selling a Marshall DSL401!
#29
take your teacher's (and ours) advice and get yourself a nice tokai now.

then finish your masters degree, get a good job and get all the gibsons you want.

it's good to have goals.

the tokai guitars i've checked out have all been nice guitars. save the cash until it's more affordable for you, gibson isn't going anywhere.
good luck.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#30
Quote by gerrywm
I hear nothing but good things about burny and Tokai guitars from the 80s. Pity I was wearing nappys instead of buying guitars back then


I wasn't even born at that time. I bought the Burny used. Can u buy used?
Guitars
Fender American Standard Strat 2008
Burny late 1980's Super Grade RLG-70 Les Paul
Sterling by Musicman JP50
Fender Classic Series 60's tele
Yamaha FS720S
Amp
Roland Microcube
Fender Blues Junior III Humholdt
#31
Quote by Dave_Mc


EDIT: don't get me wrong- if you won't be happy unless it says "Gibson" on it, then get a Gibson. I agree in that respect. But don't act like the Tokais are "worse". There are tokais which cost as much as gibson custom shop guitars. I think that qualifies as "pro quality".

Fair enough but Stevie Ray wasn't using the ones that you buy now for €800. When people talk about Tokai they're never talking about the ones that actually cost Gibson prices, because at that point people do just go straight for Gibson.
#32
Quote by gregs1020
take your teacher's (and ours) advice and get yourself a nice tokai now.

then finish your masters degree, get a good job and get all the gibsons you want.

it's good to have goals.

the tokai guitars i've checked out have all been nice guitars. save the cash until it's more affordable for you, gibson isn't going anywhere.
good luck.


I think that going to be the plan,,, Emailed Richtone with a couple of questions
"There are none on the radar with Tokai at the moment - but would expect to see some this side of Christmas."

Do ye know any other (good/relyable) sites that stock Tokais.
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
06 Fender Mex Strat - SDJb Jr, duckbucker, lil 59
Floor
Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
Amp
Laney GH50 with Zilla Fatboy 2x12 (celestion g12-65)
#33
Quote by grohl1987
Fair enough but Stevie Ray wasn't using the ones that you buy now for €800. When people talk about Tokai they're never talking about the ones that actually cost Gibson prices, because at that point people do just go straight for Gibson.


Always man, one came up on Adverts.ie last week but got snapped up within a few minutes. Thats how they came up in conversation with my teacher, he tried to buy it cos he doesnt like taking his 3grand limited edition gibson to pub gigs!!
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
06 Fender Mex Strat - SDJb Jr, duckbucker, lil 59
Floor
Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
Amp
Laney GH50 with Zilla Fatboy 2x12 (celestion g12-65)
#34
Quote by grohl1987
Fair enough but Stevie Ray wasn't using the ones that you buy now for €800. When people talk about Tokai they're never talking about the ones that actually cost Gibson prices, because at that point people do just go straight for Gibson.


Thats true, in fairness if the two giuitars were in front of me (same price etc) id go for which ever feels and plays better to suit me. There is always the gibson cool factor but I dont mind going off the beaten track to find a good guitar, id get kicks out of that too.
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
06 Fender Mex Strat - SDJb Jr, duckbucker, lil 59
Floor
Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
Amp
Laney GH50 with Zilla Fatboy 2x12 (celestion g12-65)
#36
Quote by grohl1987
Fair enough but Stevie Ray wasn't using the ones that you buy now for €800. When people talk about Tokai they're never talking about the ones that actually cost Gibson prices, because at that point people do just go straight for Gibson.


I dunno which ones he used. I mean I'm guessing he used the higher-end ones, but you can pick up the higher-end ones (used) for not that much.

Plus i mean the exact same thing is true with gibson- most of the pros are using custom shop ones, too.

I agree that most people will go with gibson at the £3000 mark, but really you should check both out to see which is better.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
well i wouldn't be doing my job if i didn't mention that...

if you aren't stuck on the singlecut (lp) shape, a yamaha SG is built very similarly to a LP and has tone for days.

and a thinner neck.

i've had a few and would def put the build quality up there with gibsons.

just throwing that out there. great guitars.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#38
Coming from a Gibson user, Tokai is much better for the price. Due to stupid circumstances I wasn't able to get a Tokai, being forced to buy a Gibson. They're are awesome, just bloody expensive

Edit: at Gibson price, a Tokai is far superior.
Gibson Les Paul Traditional Gold Top
Vox VT30
Last edited by darkravers009 at Aug 1, 2011,
#39
Does any one know the differences between the Tokai imported to England and Germany??
English shops wont ship Tokai guitars to germany and vise versa but they can be bought in both? Or am I wrong? I take it is due to licensing or being sued by gibson or something like that. I think they are given different names too but is the name the ony thing different??
07 Gibson Les Paul LE
06 Fender Mex Strat - SDJb Jr, duckbucker, lil 59
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Cry Baby 95Q-> Digitech Whammy -> DD3 -> MXR Micro Amp-> TU 2
Loop
Holy Grail ->Boss Rc20 Loop Station
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#40
If you end up getting the Tokai now and the Gibson later, you'll have spent and wasted a much larger amount of money than if you don't settle and just get what you want now. Might make finances a bit tight for the short term but you'll be much better off in the long run; just throwing my $0.02 in there.

Good luck whatever you do!
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