#1
so here is my issue. i use an mxr full bore metal for bedroom volume playing and i play with the thing absolutely cranked to get as much gain out of it as possible. when it comes to playing at higher volumes it starts to get muddy. i have a VHT special 6 ultra and it starts to push the tubes to a natural overdrive at relatively low volumes. in order to get the tone i want out of the mxr, the amp needs to be super clean. so in order to solve this problem what I'm looking for is an overdrive pedal that will give me the same amount of gain as the mxr but at higher volumes over the amps dirty channel

at this point price doesn't really matter but i want something that i will be able to find relatively easily and something i can play in person. i have a schecter c1 hellraiser with active emg's.

the only previous overdrive's I've used on it was the vox ice 9. it had great tone but i don't remember if it quite got me the gain i was looking for but i also don't think i really cranked the amp with it
#2
You're better off getting an amp with more headroom than trying to solve headroom problems with pedals.

EMG's also aren't helping at all with maintaining headroom, haha.
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#3
yup can't. 6 watts is 6 watts.
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#4
its not worth be buying a new amp because I'm off to college next year. so i just want to make due with what i have.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Product/CompareItems.aspx?prevurl=http%3A//www.guitarcenter.com/Guitar%2CNew-Gear%2CPage-3.gc%3Fsrc%3Doverdrive%26ipp%3D100

here are a couple that I'm considering and i've always heard good things about the OCD. but i also know that the TC electronics come with a usb connection that allows u to put artist presets into the pedal
#5
Active pickups are making a loud signal in the first place.

The OCD makes a Fender drive on the low side, and a Marshall drive on the high side, but it is not super high gain like a metal pedal. With the drive lowered it can be used more like a boost, but it would not be metally.

A Dirty bomb would make a higher gain Marshall sound. Can't think of any good low cost metal pedals. Triple Wreck is expensive.

Sometimes on the amp drive channel you need to decrease the pedal distortion.
looking for is an overdrive pedal that will give me the same amount of gain as the mxr but at higher volumes over the amps dirty channel
You can boost the dirty channel louder with an OD, but I doubt it would sound metal. Best for me is a Green Rhino, but it causes thicker mids and bass, plus tube distortion.
Plimsoul has a high amount of distortion, but it is very trebly, I use a lot of treble cut. Some say it is metally, but may not be for you.
Good low cost pedal to add distortion is a Big Muff, possibly with tone wicker.
#6
You can put a 12at7 in it and will give you more clean headroom
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#7
can i run 2 overdrives next to each other? like a tube screamer to add more grit to my dirty channel (there really isn't all that much gain in the amp itself) and then add either another tube screamer or another overdrive for more dirt?
#8
Quote by andrerist
can i run 2 overdrives next to each other? like a tube screamer to add more grit to my dirty channel (there really isn't all that much gain in the amp itself) and then add either another tube screamer or another overdrive for more dirt?


Yes you can but you're not addressing the problem which is that your amp simply does not have sufficient headroom. Your power tube is clipping as your amp is only 6 watts.
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#9
Quote by ragingkitty
Yes you can but you're not addressing the problem which is that your amp simply does not have sufficient headroom. Your power tube is clipping as your amp is only 6 watts.


correct me if i'm wrong but clipping basically means that the tubes are being pushed to the point of natural overdrive correct? so what the issue is that at higher volumes, the "clipping" starts to dirty my clean channel that i use with my mxr. and that is what is causing it to get muddy. so what i'm trying to do is utilize that natural overdrive on the dirty channel of the amp and use an overdrive to get a similar tone. by using the overdrive on the dirty channel, i don't have to worry about a little extra grit in the signal because the more grit the better for what i'm looking for.

and i realize that there is very little headroom. but it isn't worth me buying a new amp because this will probably be traded in and go toward a g-dec or something for the dorm room. i purchased this amp and was naive about the whole headroom ideology. i assumed tube amp = great tone = metal. i didn't put much thought into the wattage/headroom and what not.

so i think what I'm considering is using an OCD to push a tubescreamer with my dirty channel?
#10
Quote by andrerist
correct me if i'm wrong but clipping basically means that the tubes are being pushed to the point of natural overdrive correct? so what the issue is that at higher volumes, the "clipping" starts to dirty my clean channel that i use with my mxr. and that is what is causing it to get muddy. so what i'm trying to do is utilize that natural overdrive on the dirty channel of the amp and use an overdrive to get a similar tone. by using the overdrive on the dirty channel, i don't have to worry about a little extra grit in the signal because the more grit the better for what i'm looking for.

and i realize that there is very little headroom. but it isn't worth me buying a new amp because this will probably be traded in and go toward a g-dec or something for the dorm room. i purchased this amp and was naive about the whole headroom ideology. i assumed tube amp = great tone = metal. i didn't put much thought into the wattage/headroom and what not.

so i think what I'm considering is using an OCD to push a tubescreamer with my dirty channel?

Take a look at the Ibanez jet driver!!
___________________________
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#11
you can still use the MXR pedal you just need to understand how things work which it seems you don't. you can't just wood the pedal and then turn up the volume and expect everything to stay the same. as the volume goes up you will need to turn the pedaldown some and readjust the eq some as well. with out the headroom already mentioned several times you may not be able to get the exact bedroom tone at higher volumes that is just how it is.

honestly i can't believe that you would need to wood the pedalas it has a ton a gain on tap as it is. what exactly are you trying to do or sound like?
#12
I need to get in on this thread as i hve the 6watt Ultra also and i was trying to get a Skillet type sound out of it.dont have a EQ though,and need a distortion pedal
#16
Quote by monwobobbo
you can still use the MXR pedal you just need to understand how things work which it seems you don't. you can't just wood the pedal and then turn up the volume and expect everything to stay the same. as the volume goes up you will need to turn the pedaldown some and readjust the eq some as well. with out the headroom already mentioned several times you may not be able to get the exact bedroom tone at higher volumes that is just how it is.

honestly i can't believe that you would need to wood the pedalas it has a ton a gain on tap as it is. what exactly are you trying to do or sound like?


i have tweaked the pedal and amp as much as possible. i know that i do need to invest in an EQ and that will probably help but as is the amp itself basically has a 2 band eq (lows/highs) and then i use the pedal for fine tuning. regardless of where the pedal is set at it still tends to get a little bit muddy on low notes and there is a big loss in clarity (not cleanliness, it is more difficult to differentiate between different notes being played).

also, I'm going for a bullet, kse, all that remains kind of tone.
#17
Quote by andrerist
correct me if i'm wrong but clipping basically means that the tubes are being pushed to the point of natural overdrive correct? so what the issue is that at higher volumes, the "clipping" starts to dirty my clean channel that i use with my mxr. and that is what is causing it to get muddy. so what i'm trying to do is utilize that natural overdrive on the dirty channel of the amp and use an overdrive to get a similar tone. by using the overdrive on the dirty channel, i don't have to worry about a little extra grit in the signal because the more grit the better for what i'm looking for.

and i realize that there is very little headroom. but it isn't worth me buying a new amp because this will probably be traded in and go toward a g-dec or something for the dorm room. i purchased this amp and was naive about the whole headroom ideology. i assumed tube amp = great tone = metal. i didn't put much thought into the wattage/headroom and what not.

so i think what I'm considering is using an OCD to push a tubescreamer with my dirty channel?


There is a very significant difference between power tube and preamplifier clipping, but in this case where you need to know the long and sort of it, for metal you want preamplifier clipping and no power tube clipping.

For metall you want to reduce the level of power tube clipping to maintain clarity. Having both is causing your tone to muddy up.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Aug 1, 2011,
#18
Quote by ragingkitty
There is a very significant difference between power tube and preamplifier clipping, but in this case where you need to know the long and sort of it, for metal you want preamplifier clipping and no power tube clipping.

For metall you want to reduce the level of power tube clipping to maintain clarity. Having both is causing your tone to muddy up.


ok, that makes sense. so how do i go about doing that without dropping tons and tons of money into it? i'm ok with a short term fix/pedals because at least with pedals i can keep them and use them on other amps. is it the sort of thing i should try a new set of tubes in it? about how much would that run me?
#19
Quote by andrerist
ok, that makes sense. so how do i go about doing that without dropping tons and tons of money into it? i'm ok with a short term fix/pedals because at least with pedals i can keep them and use them on other amps. is it the sort of thing i should try a new set of tubes in it? about how much would that run me?


There's a really cheap fix for that, lower the volume on your amp.
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#20
Quote by ragingkitty
There's a really cheap fix for that, lower the volume on your amp.


that "cheap fix" isn't much of a fix at all if i can't hear over my drummer, 2nd guitarist, bass, and vocalists during practices
#21
Get everyone else to turn their volumes down?

6 watts, while isn't a great lot for gigs, is still quite a bit for practice, it comes across to me that everyone seems to be playing "me too" when it comes to cranking their volumes.

Honestly, you can't just magically increase your headroom just like that. Although one possibility is to change to a higher efficiency speaker, though I'm not certain how much that will set you back by and how efficient your current speaker is.
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#22
IMO, 6 watts is a ridiculously small amount of power to try to be playing with a drummer, regardless of anything else.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#23
i feel like this thread should have stopped with AM's post. I'll repeat it.

6W is 6W and there is nothing you can do to change that. There is no magical cheap fix for headroom. Unfortunately headroom is exactly what you want.
#24
Quote by andrerist
that "cheap fix" isn't much of a fix at all if i can't hear over my drummer, 2nd guitarist, bass, and vocalists during practices


you are using a 6watt amp that wasn't really designed to give you the sound you want.only answer is to get a amp that is capable. obviuosly not what you want to hear but it's the truth. no matter what you do pedal wise you will still have this problem so put your money where it will do you the most good.
#26
Quote by andrerist
that "cheap fix" isn't much of a fix at all if i can't hear over my drummer, 2nd guitarist, bass, and vocalists during practices


No pedal will help you. You need more power.
#27
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
i wouldn't use a 6 watt amp with a drummer and a 2nd guitarist.....not even mic'd.....not even for classic rock




I've used 7 watts before with success, for classic rock....

Actually, 7 watts on a 4x12 is pretty success for classic rock at manageable volumes (Though classic rock traditionally happens at unmanageable volumes).

As long as the second guitarist can run at similarly manageable volume with good tonal characteristics, and the drummer's not an asshole - all's well.

That said, TS Can't do what he wants to do with a 6 watt amplifier. Period.
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Last edited by redberon2003 at Aug 2, 2011,
#28
just to finalize this thread, picked up an MXR 10 band eq this morning. solved my issues in less than 5 minutes. its an 18v pedal which gives it a little more headroom. placed at the end of my pedal chain i can shape and mold my tone to anything that i want allowing me to clear up any mud in my tone when the amp is turned up. absolutely worth the money and i would recommend it to anybody for any reason whatsoever