#1
ive been writing alot of music lately sort of blindly and im just looking for new scales to incorporate into my playing, ive been messing around with some exoctic scales whose names escape me right now, but are any scales i should be looking into to expand my playing a bit, im looking for something that i can sweep and solo thru, for metal so most likely minor, but thats why im asking.
-Peavey 6505+
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#2
Just use the Major and Minor scales...if you learn how to use accidentals effectively, Major and the three Minors are all you'll ever need.

Hmmm...Major and the Three Minors...that sounds like an old-timey band name. Or a military man with a pedophilia problem.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#3
alright thats some advice i can hancle, i've been trying to learn all the scales just by the whole step half step progression that they all have and the notes. snice im already here i mind as well ask about theory, im struggling alot to learn theory, i know the notes and how to put scales, but i dont know where to go now with it? any advice on that?
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w
#4
If you know your scales, simply learn to harmonize chords out of them. For example, if you have a scale with A B C D E F G (A minor scale), take the 1st, 3rd and 5th note of that sequence and you have A C E (A minor chord). That's a basic triad and the "I" scale degree. You can just repeat that 1-3-5 pattern to every note in the scale and get plenty of chords.

You don't really sweep scales. You more likely sweep arpeggios ("broken" chords). So if you did harmonize that scale, you should have a lot of arpeggios to sweep.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#6
Quote by forgottenlife
Metal scale

This is not The Pit
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#7
the picture of the scale definately helped me out the most douche.

alright 1 3 and 5, now when im making chords like that am i just looking for the note and then putting it on any string? say if were using the A major scale (abcdefg) i'd go A on the top string a C on the 2nd string? 3rd string? and then the F on 4th or 5th string? or does it even matter as long the note are dif strings?
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w
#8
Quote by OurRequiem
the picture of the scale definately helped me out the most douche.

alright 1 3 and 5, now when im making chords like that am i just looking for the note and then putting it on any string? say if were using the A major scale (abcdefg) i'd go A on the top string a C on the 2nd string? 3rd string? and then the F on 4th or 5th string? or does it even matter as long the note are dif strings?

It's A minor. Big difference!

Yeah, just look for the notes on any string. As long as you have those three notes (A C E) you have A minor. I'm not the best person to explain these concepts, so just let me forward you to a great series of lessons: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/the_ultimate_guide_to_guitar_chapter_i__1_introduction_-_the_guitar.html
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#9
Quote by Flibo
This is not The Pit



srsly why do people like you even come onto forums to bitch about shit, like srsly dude im asking a ****ing question because i need help and im trying to better myself as a musician. go find something else to do than find threads that you can post some dumbass shit on and get your total post count up. if you dont have anything productive to post then dont post it, just the like giant ass scale someone posted how the hell is that gonna help me do anything? sorry if you already know the ansewers to the questions im asking, if i didnt ask question i wouldnt learn anything so **** off.
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w
#10
Quote by OurRequiem
srsly why do people like you even come onto forums to bitch about shit, like srsly dude im asking a ****ing question because i need help and im trying to better myself as a musician. go find something else to do than find threads that you can post some dumbass shit on and get your total post count up. if you dont have anything productive to post then dont post it, just the like giant ass scale someone posted how the hell is that gonna help me do anything? sorry if you already know the ansewers to the questions im asking, if i didnt ask question i wouldnt learn anything so **** off.

Dude, chill out.

I wasn't even referring to you.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#11
Quote by Flibo
It's A minor. Big difference!

Yeah, just look for the notes on any string. As long as you have those three notes (A C E) you have A minor. I'm not the best person to explain these concepts, so just let me forward you to a great series of lessons: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/the_ultimate_guide_to_guitar_chapter_i__1_introduction_-_the_guitar.html


alright man thanks for the advice, it helps now im gonna go attempt to fiqure this out haha
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w
#12
Quote by Flibo
Dude, chill out.

I wasn't even referring to you.



sorry bro, its just everytime i post a thread asking a question some ****** comes into and starts bitching about how this isnt the pit or this is the wrong place or your grammar sucks, like i really dont care i just want to know the ansewer to a question uk. im sure its happened to you too but yea i flipped a tit a lil bit because its been happening alot snice i got back into ultimate guitar. so my bad dude


edit: haha i didnt even realize you were the person helping me...im even more sorry now lol. i thought it was the same guy that posted the big ass picture of the scale hahaha man i gotta pay more attention to things, now i get why you said this wasnt pit too haha
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w
Last edited by OurRequiem at Aug 1, 2011,
#13
dirt can get into the mechanics of modern scales, so i prefer the old ones, however a good sweep will help to remove most of the dirt, vastly improving the effectiveness of you're scales
#14
Quote by forgottenlife
dirt can get into the mechanics of modern scales, so i prefer the old ones, however a good sweep will help to remove most of the dirt, vastly improving the effectiveness of you're scales



what do you mean by dirt? like fuzz n stuff or....
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w
#15
He's referring to scales as a weighing mechanism.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#16
Despite what some think, other scales than the major and minor do exist, and can be used in their own right.

Avoid soloing with exotic scales over diatonic harmony. That IS just playing accidentals.

To use a different scale, work out the chords and then spend a week or more experimenting with its sound before you try to write something. This is where exotic scales are different from modes: with modes it's easy to slip back into diatonic tonality, so you're not using modes anymore. With non-diatonic scales there's less danger of this because the intervals and chords are different.

Of course, the end result COULD be analysed in terms of the major scale with accidentals, and major scale fundamentalists would want to do it that way. However, there comes a point when it's simpler and more elegant to think of the music as simply using a different kind of scale. Its chords will have different functions, and after you've got to know the scale you'll become adept at knowing those functions.

As to which scale to use for metal ... that question doesn't really make sense. No scale is inherently 'metal'. It's up to you to use the scale in a way that produces the kind of music you want.

As a challenge you could try the overtone scale / acoustic scale / Bartok scale. The only issue here would be that it's a mode of the melodic minor scale, and your usage of it could slip into that scale. Perhaps a more outlandish scale such as the Hungarian gypsy scale would be preferable in that it won't slip into familiar diatonic territory so easily.
#17
Quote by Jehannum
To use a different scale, work out the chords and then spend a week or more experimenting with its sound before you try to write something. This is where exotic scales are different from modes: with modes it's easy to slip back into diatonic tonality, so you're not using modes anymore. With non-diatonic scales there's less danger of this because the intervals and chords are different.

Of course, the end result COULD be analysed in terms of the major scale with accidentals, and major scale fundamentalists would want to do it that way. However, there comes a point when it's simpler and more elegant to think of the music as simply using a different kind of scale. Its chords will have different functions, and after you've got to know the scale you'll become adept at knowing those functions.


The problem I see here is that an 'exotic' scale's chords will not have different functions. Sure, having a V+ instead of a V or a vi* instead of bVI will have different effects, but harmonic progressions tend to all fall into a set of basic functions (such as pre-dominant, tonic, etc.) While a bII and IV will have different implications in a song structure (leading to a V from a root position bII doesn't sound pretty,) but they both function in a pre-dominant context. Keys are established with or without borrowed harmony, even completely borrowed (save for the tonic, of course). A progression such as:

C - Db/F - Fm - Bb

can establish a C major key just as well as:

C - Am - F - G

it just goes about it differently.

I do understand your point, however, and I feel at a certain point it is much easier to communicate by calling it the 'exotic' name. For example, in Rush's "YYZ", Lifeson solos with the Phrygian Dominant scale over a B - C7 (or is it B7 - C7?) vamp. It's really just a Major key, but he uses a much different set of intervals than the Major scale. It's all perceptual.

For me, applying the Major (or Minor) scale to everything is a great teaching tool. It is applicable to any sort of key situation and is easy to teach scalar motion (oft overlooked) and how to use accidentals effectively. Your idea isn't flawed, but I disagree with your views on diatonicism.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
Last edited by soviet_ska at Aug 1, 2011,
#18
Quote by OurRequiem
ive been writing alot of music lately sort of blindly and im just looking for new scales to incorporate into my playing, ive been messing around with some exoctic scales whose names escape me right now, but are any scales i should be looking into to expand my playing a bit, im looking for something that i can sweep and solo thru, for metal so most likely minor, but thats why im asking.

There is no way you are a "metal" musician if you are "Deathcore all day"
#19
Quote by MegaSteelMaiden
There is no way you are a "metal" musician if you are "Deathcore all day"

How so?
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#20
Quote by MegaSteelMaiden
There is no way you are a "metal" musician if you are "Deathcore all day"



really? maybe its my favorite style but its probally not the only thing i play...retard

why dont you go tell that to within the ruins? im sure theyd like to hear you out play them brohan.
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w
#21
Quote by Jehannum
Despite what some think, other scales than the major and minor do exist, and can be used in their own right.

Avoid soloing with exotic scales over diatonic harmony. That IS just playing accidentals.

To use a different scale, work out the chords and then spend a week or more experimenting with its sound before you try to write something. This is where exotic scales are different from modes: with modes it's easy to slip back into diatonic tonality, so you're not using modes anymore. With non-diatonic scales there's less danger of this because the intervals and chords are different.

Of course, the end result COULD be analysed in terms of the major scale with accidentals, and major scale fundamentalists would want to do it that way. However, there comes a point when it's simpler and more elegant to think of the music as simply using a different kind of scale. Its chords will have different functions, and after you've got to know the scale you'll become adept at knowing those functions.

As to which scale to use for metal ... that question doesn't really make sense. No scale is inherently 'metal'. It's up to you to use the scale in a way that produces the kind of music you want.

As a challenge you could try the overtone scale / acoustic scale / Bartok scale. The only issue here would be that it's a mode of the melodic minor scale, and your usage of it could slip into that scale. Perhaps a more outlandish scale such as the Hungarian gypsy scale would be preferable in that it won't slip into familiar diatonic territory so easily.


well ill probally expand on my exotic scales, foucus on the minor end snice everything i write will be on the darker side of the scale spectrum. I do need to look deeper into threoy, i do know some but what your talking about is over my head lol, i knew more at one point i tried to study it but lost concentration and put my efforts elsewhere, anyway good advice made me realize some things. thanks.
-Peavey 6505+
-Bugera 333xl(w/6l6 pt's) -dead
-412 X-pattern loaded w/ WGS veteran30s & HM75s
-Gibson Les Paul, SD Blackouts *being worked on back to stock*
-Jackson DR7, EMGs
-LTD MH417
-Peavey Vyper 75w