#1
Hey!

I trying to make harmonies. I know that the 3rd 5 th 7th note over the note you want harmonized is the most common ones (If I am not mistaken ... again). let's say you play the 5,7 and 8th frets on the A string. The harmonisation would then be 5,7 and the 9th fret on the D string? (correct me if I am wrong) But if you actually count from the 5,7 and 8th fret on the A string 3 frets highter than the ones you played, you get something completly different... how is this possible? Isn't it supposed to sound the same?

Main question is: can someone explain harmonies for me because I'm not so good with them.

BTW can anyone recommend some bands that use harmonied a lot? I can think of In Flames and Iron Maiden.
#2
A7X, Bullet, Trivium, Bullet, Machinehead, Metallica, Pantera all have some in their songs
I imagine Megadeth have some.

And most modern metalcore/metal bands.

As for the theory. I have never done much harmonising in my stuff.
On playing the Paul Gilbert signature at the guitar store extensively, my missus sighed:
"Put it down now, It's like you love that guitar more than me!"
In Which I replied.
"Well it has got two F-Holes!"
#3
If you're playing:


D|--5-7-9--|
A|--5-7-8--|


You are harmonizing by fourths (two perfect, one augmented). You mentioned three frets higher, which would be minor thirds, which would look like this:


D|--3-5-6--|
A|--5-7-8--|


You can harmonize with any interval, but the most commonly used ones are 3rds, 6ths, perfect 5ths and octaves.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#4
Quote by zezima940
Hey!

I trying to make harmonies. I know that the 3rd 5 th 7th note over the note you want harmonized is the most common ones (If I am not mistaken ... again). let's say you play the 5,7 and 8th frets on the A string. The harmonisation would then be 5,7 and the 9th fret on the D string? (correct me if I am wrong) But if you actually count from the 5,7 and 8th fret on the A string 3 frets highter than the ones you played, you get something completly different... how is this possible? Isn't it supposed to sound the same?

Main question is: can someone explain harmonies for me because I'm not so good with them.

BTW can anyone recommend some bands that use harmonied a lot? I can think of In Flames and Iron Maiden.


How you'd harmonise it depends on what key your in (if you want to harmonise while staying in key). Harmonising with thirds isn't just 3 frets difference.

Also, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+harmonise
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#5
Quote by soviet_ska
If you're playing:


D|--5-7-9--|
A|--5-7-8--|


You are harmonizing by fourths (two perfect, one augmented). You mentioned three frets higher, which would be minor thirds, which would look like this:


D|--3-5-6--|
A|--5-7-8--|


You can harmonize with any interval, but the most commonly used ones are 3rds, 6ths, perfect 5ths and octaves.


Thanks man! You cleared it up for me :P
#6
Quote by pigeonmafia
How you'd harmonise it depends on what key your in (if you want to harmonise while staying in key). Harmonising with thirds isn't just 3 frets difference.

Also, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+harmonise

This

If you're harmonizing in thirds for example, for every note, you need to take the third of that note (either minor or major) that exists in the scale you're using. So if you're in G major:

G A B C D E F#

G would harmonize to B (M3), A would harmonize to C (m3), B would harmonize to D (m3) etc.
#7
Quote by sporkman7
This

If you're harmonizing in thirds for example, for every note, you need to take the third of that note (either minor or major) that exists in the scale you're using. So if you're in G major:

G A B C D E F#

G would harmonize to B (M3), A would harmonize to C (m3), B would harmonize to D (m3) etc.


I don't know the difference of major and minor xD I only know the pentatonic and the blues scale xD
#8
The most common harmonic intervals are........ 3rd's, 5th's, 4th's and 6th's. At least these are what I use the most. Before you learn harmonization you have to have a good knowledge of scales.
and you need to know what key you are playing in.
Let's say you are playing in the key of C major. and you wanted to harmonize these notes ( C, D, E) << From the low E string, frets 8, 10 and 12.

First here is the C major scale up to the 7th:
C D E F G A B

Now you have to count according to the harmonic interval.
When counting remember that the note you are "standing on" is 1. So start counting the next note as 2. For example, C(1) D(2) E(3) F(4) G(5) etc........... and if you are standing on the F note.... F(1) G(2) A(3) B(4) C(5) etc..........

If we're going for a 3rd harmony, the harmony notes would be. ( E, F and G)
In a 5h harmony. ( G, A and B)
In a 4th harmony the notes would be.. ( F, G and A)
In a 6th harmony. ( A, B and C) << 6th would be the relative minor of the major scale

and no, it will not sound the same, unless you're going for an octave of course.


As for bands that use harmonies often...... Iron Maiden, In Flames, Children Of Bodom, Bullet For My Valentine, and any Melodic Death Metal Band.


Hope This Helped
Last edited by MaddMann274 at Aug 2, 2011,
#9
If you play through a standard major scale or one of the modes in a major scale the intervals change as you go through the scale. Sometimes a tone (two fret step) sometimes a semitone (one fret step). Starting from the root note on any of the strings you would go up along the same string thus - tone - tone - semitone - tone - tone - tone - semitone to get back to your starting point an octave up. If you choose a fixed interval of so many frets up from your root note and have that as your harmony it wont always work and give you a true harmony all the way through the scale because as you start to play through the scale your fixed number of frets up from your melody note will sometimes fall on notes that arent really in the scale. What you have to do when you think about your harmonies is think about the number of NOTES up from the note you are playing rather than the number of frets. As soviet ska said you can choose whatever harmony intervals you like but some are easier on the ear because they tie in with the intervals used to make up bread and butter chords eg thirds / fifths.

I hope that makes sense ok .
#10
Quote by MaddMann274
The most common harmonic intervals are........ 3rd's, 5th's, 4th's and 6th's. At least these are what I use the most. Before you learn harmonization you have to have a good knowledge of scales.
and you need to know what key you are playing in.
Let's say you are playing in the key of C major. and you wanted to harmonize these notes ( C, D, E) << From the low E string, frets 8, 10 and 12.

First here is the C major scale up to the 7th:
C D E F G A B

Now you have to count according to the harmonic interval.
When counting remember that the note you are "standing on" is 1. So start counting the next note as 2. For example, C(1) D(2) E(3) F(4) G(5) etc........... and if you are standing on the F note.... F(1) G(2) A(3) B(4) C(5) etc..........

If we're going for a 3rd harmony, the harmony notes would be. ( E, F and G)
In a 5h harmony. ( G, A and B)
In a 4th harmony the notes would be.. ( F, G and A)
In a 6th harmony. ( A, B and C) << 6th would be the relative minor of the major scale

and no, it will not sound the same, unless you're going for an octave of course.


As for bands that use harmonies often...... Iron Maiden, In Flames, Children Of Bodom, Bullet For My Valentine, and any Melodic Death Metal Band.


Hope This Helped


Thanks, it helped a little, but I have to get my teacher to show me some more scales and help me find keys first :P
#11
Quote by MaddMann274
and you need to know what key you are playing in.
Let's say you are playing in the key of C major. and you wanted to harmonize these notes ( C, D, E) << From the low E string, frets 8, 10 and 12.

If we're going for a 3rd harmony, the harmony notes would be. ( E, F and G)
In a 5h harmony. ( G, A and B)
In a 4th harmony the notes would be.. ( F, G and A)
In a 6th harmony. ( A, B and C) << 6th would be the relative minor of the major scale


I would like to point out that this is strictly diatonic harmonization, which is not the end-all be-all. Specifically, this doesn't answer the question of what you would harmonize with should the original note be an accidental. You can harmonize with notes of any modality (major, minor, diminished, augmented.) While diatonic harmonization is most common, always keep in mind the implications of using certain intervals over others; your choice will affect voice-leading and melodic concerns as well as tension/resolution and extensions on the harmonic side.

Not to discredit Mann: his post is full of good information. Diatonic harmonization is where you should start, honestly. I just don't want there to be a misconception that this is the only option.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#12
Therein lies the difference in 'pitch shifter' effects and true 'harmoniser' effects. Typical pitch shifter effects take the note you play and increase or decrease the pitch by a fixed portion. Eg an octave or a percentage pitch fix eg 10% or they may even allow a scale interval eg major third. That is then applied to every note.

For harmoniser effects the unit will have to decide after you have chosen your scale and harmony interval (or intervals) how many frets up or down the note(s) will have to be adjusted to keep the harmony (or harmonies) in the set of notes that actually belong to the scale when you play your melody. Thats why harmonisers are usually more expensive than basic pitch shifters. You need a bit of processing power to allow the unit to 'think' about what it's doing with the changing intervals as you play through the scale.
#13
Quote by zezima940
I don't know the difference of major and minor xD I only know the pentatonic and the blues scale xD


Then you are left working things out by ear, because you don't have the underpinnings to answer your question and support the answers for that problem. You might consider studying major scales and even the formation of triads so that you at least are equipped with an intelligent basis for learning how to apply these.

Best,

Sean
#14
Like pigeonmafia said, you have to factor in the key of the song (most of the time). For example, if you are in the key of C:

C = 1
D = 2
E = 3
F = 4
G = 5
A = 6
B = 7
C = 8 (octave)

If you have a riff that goes C - E - B and you want to harmonize it in sixths for example, you count six notes starting from the note that is being harmonizd. So, starting at C you go 1-2-3-4-5-6, and what is the sixth? Why A of course. Then starting at E you go 3-4-5-6-7-8, which gives you a C (you can use either the lower or higher octave). And finally, starting at B you go
7-8-2-3-4-5 which gives you a G. When you move past the octave, you start over again but skip the 1 note since it is the same as the 8 note.

So C - E - B is the root, harmonizing with sixths will give you A - C - G. Here is one possible way it could look if you were to play a dual guitar harmony.


Root (C - E - B)
e---------------
B---------------
G---------------
D---------------
A---3--------2--
E--------0------

Harmonized 6ths (A - C - G)
e-------------------
B-------------------
G-------------------
D--------------------
A---0----3----------
E--------------3-----

Same goes for 2nds, 3rds, etc. You start at the note you want to harmonize and work your way up. The 1 note will always be the first note of whatever key you are playing in, and the 8 note will always be the octave of the 1 note. Using the same note pattern (C - E - B) from the key of C but harmonizing them in 3rds would net you the notes
E - G - D.
#15
Quote by neversleeps84
Like pigeonmafia said, you have to factor in the key of the song (most of the time). For example, if you are in the key of C:

C = 1
D = 2
E = 3
F = 4
G = 5
A = 6
B = 7
C = 8 (octave)

If you have a riff that goes C - E - B and you want to harmonize it in sixths for example, you count six notes starting from the note that is being harmonizd. So, starting at C you go 1-2-3-4-5-6, and what is the sixth? Why A of course. Then starting at E you go 3-4-5-6-7-8, which gives you a C (you can use either the lower or higher octave). And finally, starting at B you go
7-8-2-3-4-5 which gives you a G. When you move past the octave, you start over again but skip the 1 note since it is the same as the 8 note.

So C - E - B is the root, harmonizing with sixths will give you A - C - G. Here is one possible way it could look if you were to play a dual guitar harmony.


Root (C - E - B)
e---------------
B---------------
G---------------
D---------------
A---3--------2--
E--------0------

Harmonized 6ths (A - C - G)
e-------------------
B-------------------
G-------------------
D--------------------
A---0----3----------
E--------------3-----

Same goes for 2nds, 3rds, etc. You start at the note you want to harmonize and work your way up. The 1 note will always be the first note of whatever key you are playing in, and the 8 note will always be the octave of the 1 note. Using the same note pattern (C - E - B) from the key of C but harmonizing them in 3rds would net you the notes
E - G - D.


Ah I see! Great way of explaining that I have to move in the scale! But I need to learn all Major and Minor scales xD
#16
I wont correct you. I will explain:

Depending on in which scale you play, you will have to take the second note from the tone you play to harmonize.....

so playing an D (5th fret Astring) you will have the f or f# (fsharp) to harmonies it with thirds. Because of the harmony theory you will have 3half tones and 4half tones thirds...

So lets say you are in any minor scale... starting
from root it is: 3semitones away ( for example: d-f e-g)
from the second tone of the scale it's: 3semitones
from the third tone : 4 semitones
from the forth tone: 3semitones
from the fifth tone: 3 or 4 semitones (4 is harmonic you will see)
from the sixth tone: 4semitones....
from the seventh tone 4 semitones....away

Harmonies basiclly are not only thirds and fifth etc...
But every tone on the scale has its harmony....
in a third a fifth or Tritone... and sixth....
maybe even seventh but they sound crazy...


First learn the notes the scales and your fretboard positions...
Thirds are the third tone. that can be a two wholestep or three half step harmony....


You can also do it deathmetal like.... only one third kind....
or all in fifth ignoring the tritone.....


helped?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IF YOU READ 'H' I MEAN 'B'

GERMAN H = AMERICAN B

#17
Quote by neversleeps84

Root (C - E - B)
e---------------
B---------------
G---------------
D---------------
A---3--------2--
E--------0------

Harmonized 6ths (A - C - G)
e-------------------
B-------------------
G-------------------
D--------------------
A---0----3----------
E--------------3-----


those aren't sixths. what you have there is a third (A-C), a sixth (E-C), and a third (G-B). thirds are inverted sixths, but if you invert them, you're not harmonizing in sixths, but in thirds.

TS, in order to apply harmonizations effectively, you'll need to know your theory. like sean said, you don't yet have the underpinnings -- you know what we're talking about here, but it would be difficult for you to apply it in most situations. otherwise your ear is your only option.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#18
Quote by AeolianWolf
those aren't sixths. what you have there is a third (A-C), a sixth (E-C), and a third (G-B). thirds are inverted sixths, but if you invert them, you're not harmonizing in sixths, but in thirds.


Oops, didn't know that. So how would I harmonize the C and B notes using sixths?
#19
Quote by neversleeps84
Oops, didn't know that. So how would I harmonize the C and B notes using sixths?


Just don't invert them. Use an A and a G an octave above. So:


G|---2--------0--|
D|---------------|
A|---3----3---2--|
E|--------0------|


And to demonstrate some non-diatonic harmonization...how about some major 6ths?

G|---2--------1--|
D|---------------|
A|---3----4---2--|
E|--------0------|


The harmony line is now A -> C# -> G#. Assuming the phrase repeats, G# leads nicely to A. I made the second note a C# to lead into G# better.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#20
Quote by soviet_ska
Just don't invert them. Use an A and a G an octave above.



Ah, now I get it. Seems so simple, but I never read about inversions. I'll have to look into it more. Thanks Soviet and Aeolian Wolf.
#21
A7X for harmony examples and, of course, maiden.

one thing i found out for sweep harmonies is to just do different voicings of the same sweep.

Ex:
e|----------10--13-|-----------13-17------------------------|
B|-------10---------|--------15-------------------------------|
G|----10------------|-----14----------------------------------|
D|-12---------------|--15-------------------------------------|
A|-------------------|-------------------------------------------|
E|-------------------|-------------------------------------------|

both of these sweeps are Dm sweeps, and when played together harmonize.