#1
Hey guys, This is going to be a pretty big read, so if you do not generally want to help I suggest you don't bother reading this behemoth.

I've been a member here for a while (I was way more active on the forums in my earlier days) but I've come back to ask you guys for some advice.

I have been playing guitar for 6 years, and I play Technical Deathcore (think Veil of Maya, Born Of Osiris) but recently I've been thinking back over my playing and realized I am not where I think I should be after playing for 6 years, I don't consider myself a bad player as I can play about.. 6 Veil of Maya songs and 3 Born of Osiris songs (my goal is to be able to play the entire last 2 Veil of Maya Albums, all the way through) but I don't consider myself a good player. I feel like I've hit a wall, a wall where I can't get any better at my playing.

So I've decided I need to go back to the basics.. Well not go back to because honestly, I don't think I ever properly learnt the basics. I've always just wrote what sounds good, using no knowledge of music and scales and whatnot, and I feel this is where I have gone wrong. And now like I said, I've hit a wall where I can not write anything that fits into the genre of music that I want to be writing as my skill does not permit it.


So, to the actual point of this thread. Given my style of playing (out of time, technical, breakdowns) I was hoping you guys could help me put together a kind of training program? I'm sure some of you have done something similar in the past? Something I can practice x amount of times say.. 3 times a day. I want to end up with a heap of exercises I can just practice day after day until I improve, all while learning modes and scales and how they fit into the fretboard with everything else. Feel free to post links of anything you think may be useful to me. What scales should I be learning, etc.


Like I said, big read I know, so thankyou in advance to anyone who has read through it. Just ask if you need to know anything more about my style or goals or anything.
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Last edited by RaNdoM-FeLiX at Aug 5, 2011,
#2
Start with learning the major scale, and how to construct the major scale off each note. Learn what chords go into each scale, and how to solo over the chords by using modes.

At the same time, practice singing the major scale, singing arpeggios and chords within the major scale.

At the same time, practice memorizing the fretboard.

At the same time, work on building speed.

At the same time, work on improvising by playing chord progressions, and then soloing over them using modes, arpeggios..etc.

At the same time, practice creating your own melodies using your voice, and transcribing them onto your instrument.

At the same time, practice transcribing songs by ear.

At the same time, practice sweep picking.

At the same time, practice vibrato, pinch harmonics, bending strings, sliding, single string technique, string skipping, whammy bar stuff.

At the same time, practice writing songs.

Just in case you don't know, the "major scale" isn't a "happy scale". So don't be afraid that I said "major scale". the only thing that is happy about the major scale is the "major chords" within. CHORDS sound happy, SCALES are just...notes that fit together.

That's a lot of work. Once you've done that, you can practice the "minor scale" and continue to practice all that stuff all the time, as often as you can.

Then, you can learn the "harmonic minor scale". Then the "melodic minor scale"

practice performing music. practice recording music.

do EVERYTHING you can think of!
#3
Maltmn got some valid points, although i would take off "Practice speed" and "Using modes".

Speed comes with being accurate, therefor it comes with good practice. And seing you can play a couple of veil of maya songs i dont think thats a problem.

Modes are overrated and frankly most guitarists dont know how they work and they dont serve a very big use in modern music. You could although learn the name of them for reference points.

My 2 cents, cheers.
#4
By the way, I can already sweep pretty well, i just don't know how to write my own sweeps, only the ones other people have written.
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#6
Just because you said that i went back to his post and read, he missed some stuff.

Learn to to construct chords, that will help you make your own sweeps aswell. (Cause sweeps are chords played arpegiatted).

One other thing i also think is pretty good is learn learn what notes are in what chords, it can really make you a great improviser and writer.

Cause in that way if someone plays you a F major progression and asks you to solo over it you will know wich notes are required to make the F major sound, the Fmaj7, Fmaj9, Fmaj 11, F7, Dminor7 etc.

Soloing over chords is a very good approach, it may even help with styles as Veil of maya since you will be able to know notes of diminished, diminished 7th and augmented chords that are pretty often used there, and you can of course make all these chords to sweep if wanted.

Cheers!
#7
Oh good

Then in that case, practice creating variations on the sweeps that you do know. Add in an extra note or two somewhere, add hammer-ons, play every other note, start/end them in different places, try them in different keys...

Also, once you learn how to find arpeggios, and apply modes to arpeggios, creating your own sweeps will be cake
If you don't know what an arpeggio is yet, that's okay, at some point you will, and when you figure out how to play modes over arpeggios, it will become much easier to understand.

I'll sum it up as best I can:

Every chord has 3 basic arpeggio shapes to go along with it. The arpeggios are all the same notes, but they're played in different spots on your guitar.

Each arpeggio works well with one or more modes. When you change the mode, you change the emotional sound of the music. When you move up and down arpeggio shapes, you change the pitch of the music.

Pretty cool stuff, but you should study the modes on your own, and then ask a specific question if you have one.
#8
you have some good skill, but it'd serve you better to actually know about what you're playing. it makes it much easier to absorb it into your own style.

i second everything sickz said. in both posts.

Quote by maltmn
Each arpeggio works well with one or more modes. When you change the mode, you change the emotional sound of the music.


jesus christ, not this again. you're the third one in the last two weeks.

i'm out of this one, guys.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at Aug 5, 2011,
#9
Every chord has 3 basic arpeggio shapes to go along with it. The arpeggios are all the same notes, but they're played in different spots on your guitar.

Each arpeggio works well with one or more modes. When you change the mode, you change the emotional sound of the music. When you move up and down arpeggio shapes, you change the pitch of the music.


You are just using an inverted arpeggio, i´d still say the whole "Modes is the greatest thing in the world and must be learned" is bollocks. When you modulate you dont change mode, you change key, wich will provide you with a whole new bunch of "modes". Like if i modulate from lets say A major to A Dorian, you are just changing key from A major to G major.

My opinion.
#10
Also guys, since Veil plays in Drop B, and that is now my preferred tuning.

I should be learning all this in standard, yes?
After I do that is it easy to convert that knowledge back over to drop B?
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#11
Quote by RaNdoM-FeLiX
Also guys, since Veil plays in Drop B, and that is now my preferred tuning.

I should be learning all this in standard, yes?
After I do that is it easy to convert that knowledge back over to drop B?


I´d say it´s easier to learn it in a standard tuning point of view, when learned it´s very easy to think of it in drop tunings though. It´s exactly the same except for the 6th string being tuned down 1 step.
#12
Quote by Sickz
Like if i modulate from lets say A major to A Dorian, you are just changing key from A major to G major.


well that would obviously depend on the resolution. if you modulate from A major to A dorian, the resolution is on A. however, i wouldn't see it as A dorian. i'd probably just see it as A minor with the natural 6 as an accidental. again, context, context, context.

Quote by RaNdoM-FeLiX
Also guys, since Veil plays in Drop B, and that is now my preferred tuning.

I should be learning all this in standard, yes?
After I do that is it easy to convert that knowledge back over to drop B?


theory is theory. doesn't matter. but it'll be easier for you to learn in standard.

maybe you should get a 7-string?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#13
Quote by AeolianWolf
well that would obviously depend on the resolution. if you modulate from A major to A dorian, the resolution is on A. however, i wouldn't see it as A dorian. i'd probably just see it as A minor with the natural 6 as an accidental. again, context, context, context.



That is true, it´s just when i see A dorian i see G major, since it is the same notes.
#14
Thankyou for all the replies guys.
Like I said, I don't consider myself a bad player, it's just when I play a note in a riff I'm writing, I do not know which note should come next, or even which note I actually just played.

I strive to understand everything youve said in here as a lot of it has already gone over my head.

Would the best way to learn the fretboard to be learn all the notes in a box of say 4 frets, and then move onto the next? Or go string by string type of thing?

EDIT: I would love a 7 string, but at the moment I don't have the funds for one, but I figure I should be alright as Veil plays all their music on a 6 string anyway.
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Last edited by RaNdoM-FeLiX at Aug 5, 2011,
#15
Quote by RaNdoM-FeLiX
Would the best way to learn the fretboard to be learn all the notes in a box of say 4 frets, and then move onto the next? Or go string by string type of thing?


the traditional method involves learning natural notes first, and then introducing accidentals. for example, learning the notes in the C major scale, and then introducing accidentals (F#, Bb, etc.) from there. however, this is done position by position, so you may be on to something with that 4-fret-box deal.

employ whichever method seems the most efficient to you.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#16
I would go for learning notes per string, learning them in a box just seems to me that you get yourself into thinking very...well..."boxy".

I think it is better to think notes, and therefor learn where they are on each string.

And you shouldent see yourself as a bad player, on the technique side of things you kick my ass big time, you just gave me some motivation to practice harder.
#17
Cheers dude! That means a lot!

But in theory, you obviosly sh*t all over me. =P
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