#1
I'm pretty sure this is the right forum...

Anyhow: I am currently looking at a Schecter C-8 Hellraiser for a new 8 string. It costs £999. http://www.schecterguitars.com/Products/Guitar/Hellraiser-Special-C-8.aspx

Two issues: this won't be a metal guitar, but a jazz and post rock guitar (okay, maybe a bit of metal). I will also be tapping on it a lot. I know bugger all about pickups other than that the EMG's (EMG 808) are high output and that the clean tones may not be particularly good.

so...does anyone know about these pickups? Are the cleans any good? It is fairly vital to me. Also, can it be modified in any way to improve the clean if this is the case?

Second of all, I've been hearing a lot of love for the new ESP 8 strings... is the difference really that big?

I am a newb when it comes to gear: i just pick up and play. However, I wanna make sure what I get is nice, and worth a grand.

Thanks all
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Aug 5, 2011,
#2
The cleans will be fine provided you're using an amp with enough headroom for the EMG's.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#3
Quote by Offworld92
The cleans will be fine provided you're using an amp with enough headroom for the EMG's.

I see: so just a good quality amp? I'm partial to fender amps as I usually play G&L's and I like the combination...will that work with the schecter.

sorry for being a tard, I really am clueless about amps and pickups asides from the basic knowledge about them.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#4
Headroom is related to the amount of watts an amp has. More watts = more headroom. For EMG's to get a good clean sound, you generally need at least 100W.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#5
If an amp has good cleans anyway then adding EMGs won't make that much difference to modern amps, EMGs through a good clean sound do some very nice tones if you know what you're doing with an EQ.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
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#6
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
If an amp has good cleans anyway then adding EMGs won't make that much difference to modern amps, EMGs through a good clean sound do some very nice tones if you know what you're doing with an EQ.

Ah gotcha. Yeah: I can EQ an amp and stuff like that, but my understanding of why a Texas special pickup sounds better than a P90 or vice versa is no deeper than "because it sounds better"


Quote by Offworld92
Headroom is related to the amount of watts an amp has. More watts = more headroom. For EMG's to get a good clean sound, you generally need at least 100W.

Gotcha. Thanks for the advice guys
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#7
Quote by Offworld92
Headroom is related to the amount of watts an amp has. More watts = more headroom. For EMG's to get a good clean sound, you generally need at least 100W.



I normally agree with everything you say, but I could get lovely clean tones with my EMGs through low watt amps.

The whole EMGs distort amps is blown way way out of proportion coming from the fact they can make shitty SS amps clip. Cleaner than clean, cleans is what they were originally designed for.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
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#8
Tosin Abasi makes them sound excellent as far as cleans go, look him up if you want an idea of what they're capable of.

Also, kudos to purchasing an 8 string without the intent to just chug away on the low F#

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#9
Quote by valennic
Tosin Abasi makes them sound excellent as far as cleans go, look him up if you want an idea of what they're capable of.

Also, kudos to purchasing an 8 string without the intent to just chug away on the low F#

i'm going to tab out some tapped arrangements for 7 and 8 strings of a few songs which would be harder to do on a 6 like Feeling good - Muse/Simone and Point of Disgust - Low will be a couple. I'll probably post them on UG if they allow the eccentricity.

And yes, I like Abasi. However, I don't intend to play his style

Thank you all
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#10
Quote by Banjocal
i'm going to tab out some tapped arrangements for 7 and 8 strings of a few songs which would be harder to do on a 6 like Feeling good - Muse/Simone and Point of Disgust - Low will be a couple. I'll probably post them on UG if they allow the eccentricity.

And yes, I like Abasi. However, I don't intend to play his style

Thank you all


I'd love to check em out when you do it, I've been delving into more jazzy things lately, points of reference would be awesome.

Abasi has his own style, I don't think many people could or would want to play it

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#11
EMGs were invented for jazz so if that's what you do, go for them. You don't have much choice anyway. That 8th string is going to sound terrible with passive pickups. EMGs output really isn't that big a deal. In fact no high output is. Back when amps were made with very little headroom because nobody used distortion and pickups started being wound to a 'hot' 10k, yeah, output mattered. But these days we've got pickups going well past 20k and amps are made with distortion in mind. It is very hard to get an amp now that distorts purely from the pickup output. Either you gotta crank the amp or use pregain or use a boost pedal. EMGs work out to have about the same output as a 18k pickup. Unless you're trying to play through a cranked Valve Junior or Champ 600 then you won't get any distortion with that output alone.
#12
The 8th string wont sound terrible with passives, the widening market of passive 8 string pickups says otherwise.

I have never had a problem with cleans on my 808's, they sound great for both more typical Jazz style cleans and playing all the way to lavish Petrucci style clean sounds, very versatile when you know how to use them.

I am intrigued in trying the 808X's though, i have a guitar with them coming in next month hopefully, so i looking forward to playing them side by side.

...random question, where abouts in Suffolk are you?
#13
Quote by hmmm_de_hum
*post*

...random question, where abouts in Suffolk are you?

Interesting.

Ipswich. I've always been hoping to run into a UGer from suffolk.

You don't know Matt from Planet Music do you?


Quote by valennic
I'd love to check em out when you do it, I've been delving into more jazzy things lately, points of reference would be awesome.

Abasi has his own style, I don't think many people could or would want to play it

I've posted a comment on your profile too: youll get them in a few months. two, provided I don't spend much.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Aug 5, 2011,
#14
Quote by Banjocal
Interesting.

Ipswich. I've always been hoping to run into a UGer from suffolk.

You don't know Matt from Planet Music do you?


Bloody hell, I work in Ipswich at the moment
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
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#15
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Bloody hell, I work in Ipswich at the moment

Where?! I must know!

Not in a creepy way, just wondering if we've crossed paths.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#16
Quote by Banjocal
Where?! I must know!

Not in a creepy way, just wondering if we've crossed paths.


I doubt it, haha, I work at a firm of accountants called Ensors on St Nicholas Street, I only get to venture into places with people who aren't accountants or clients at lunch
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#17
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
I doubt it, haha, I work at a firm of accountants called Ensors on St Nicholas Street, I only get to venture into places with people who aren't accountants or clients at lunch

Near Zizzi? Holy shit .

Did not expect that.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#18
Quote by Banjocal
Near Zizzi? Holy shit .

Did not expect that.


Yeah, haha, if you know the road you know there's a building called Cardinal House just down the road from Zizzi, next to the car park? That's it

Always surprises me when I find out anyone from UG is anywhere near me too xD
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#19
I hate EMG's and active pickups in general so keep that in mind with the following post;

Your gonna play clean mainly, jazzy and tapping stuff from what I've read in your first post. For that reason alone I wouldn't go with EMG's unless they were 808x's which have more headroom and thus handle dynamics better. On normal EMG's, the attack you put on a string makes little to no difference even on clean settings. This alone is enough reason for me to never get EMG's ever again or any other actives. I tried 808x's and though they had some more dynamics, they still had that active ''snarl'' that I hated but if you play clean that will be less obvious.

I HIGHLY recommend replacing the pickups with DiMarzio D-Activator 8's. I have them in my self-made Swamp Ash RGA/D 8 (thread is on this forum, 2nd page probably) and I wired it up so they can be coil tapped. Especially for coil tapped, the cleans sound great and have a very unique, sparkly character.
My Gear:

Guitars:
Ibanez RG 7 EXFX (27'' scale, 2x EMG 707)

Amp:
Mesa/Boogie Studio .20 Caliber

Recording:
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#20
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Yeah, haha, if you know the road you know there's a building called Cardinal House just down the road from Zizzi, next to the car park? That's it

Always surprises me when I find out anyone from UG is anywhere near me too xD

Yeah

Well, I'm in town most days, so if you're ever bored at lunch break


Quote by JaeSwift
I HIGHLY recommend replacing the pickups with DiMarzio D-Activator 8's. I have them in my self-made Swamp Ash RGA/D 8 (thread is on this forum, 2nd page probably) and I wired it up so they can be coil tapped. Especially for coil tapped, the cleans sound great and have a very unique, sparkly character.

Thanks man: ill look into them
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Aug 5, 2011,
#21
Quote by Tom 1.0
I normally agree with everything you say, but I could get lovely clean tones with my EMGs through low watt amps.

The whole EMGs distort amps is blown way way out of proportion coming from the fact they can make shitty SS amps clip. Cleaner than clean, cleans is what they were originally designed for.


Which amps in particular are you talking about? I mainly have experience with high gain amps, so it could be that they just don't have great cleans in the first place. I'm sure you have a lot more knowledge than I do on the subject, but that's just been my "to be safe" note.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#22
Quote by Offworld92
Which amps in particular are you talking about? I mainly have experience with high gain amps, so it could be that they just don't have great cleans in the first place. I'm sure you have a lot more knowledge than I do on the subject, but that's just been my "to be safe" note.


Any amp that has good cleans to begin with. Things like a JC-120 (Jazz chorus), older Fender tube amps that are known for their cleans, the newer EVH 5150s, Deizel amps in general. All kinds of amps but basically nothing that breaks up very easily when you crank it.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#23
Quote by valennic
Tosin Abasi makes them sound excellent as far as cleans go, look him up if you want an idea of what they're capable of.

Also, kudos to purchasing an 8 string without the intent to just chug away on the low F#


Tosin has good clean tone because of his Axe Fx. He said in an interview once that he doesn't like active pickups and the reason why he uses emg808 is because its the pickup that has the most even frequency distribution across all 8 strings
#24
Quote by sewoo55
Tosin has good clean tone because of his Axe Fx. He said in an interview once that he doesn't like active pickups and the reason why he uses emg808 is because its the pickup that has the most even frequency distribution across all 8 strings


doesn't mean that EMGs aren't perfectly capable of good cleans. They have a very specific character while clean, no doubt, but they can get some very good clean sounds. There's a reason a lot bassists use active electronics in their basses.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#25
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Any amp that has good cleans to begin with. Things like a JC-120 (Jazz chorus), older Fender tube amps that are known for their cleans, the newer EVH 5150s, Deizel amps in general. All kinds of amps but basically nothing that breaks up very easily when you crank it.


Those amps all have a lot of headroom anyway though. Tom was talking about low wattage amps.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#26
Planet music, i go in there plenty of times. Do you want to try out some 808's sometime? I can bring my 8 in if you want, i've been in there a handful of times to play the hollowbodies in store

Doug - How long have you been working in Ipswich and not telling me mate?
#27
There is always the C-8 Blackjack ATX, its normally around the same price. Search Matthew McGhee on youtube. He has some really cool clean tapping songs. Kind of like andy mckee with an eight string.
#28
Quote by grohl1987
EMGs were invented for jazz so if that's what you do, go for them. You don't have much choice anyway. That 8th string is going to sound terrible with passive pickups. EMGs output really isn't that big a deal. In fact no high output is. Back when amps were made with very little headroom because nobody used distortion and pickups started being wound to a 'hot' 10k, yeah, output mattered. But these days we've got pickups going well past 20k and amps are made with distortion in mind. It is very hard to get an amp now that distorts purely from the pickup output. Either you gotta crank the amp or use pregain or use a boost pedal. EMGs work out to have about the same output as a 18k pickup. Unless you're trying to play through a cranked Valve Junior or Champ 600 then you won't get any distortion with that output alone.





Tell that to Bareknuckle users...


OT: EMG's are capable of cleans, but it's the scale length of the Schecter that turned me away from them when I bought my 8. I'm sure others will say differently, but 26.5" scale is perfect for a 7 string, but about 2" short for an 8 string. Unless you're planning on using a massive string for that F#, or if you'll never tune lower than F#, then you'll be fine. But if you take that F# and tune it to say, E, it'll be floppy, unless you're using an .80 string. And even then..
Schecter Hellraiser C7 FR/Bareknuckle Cold Sweat/Liquifire
Godin A12 - For Sale
1991 EBMM Silhouette
Emperor 2x12

7+>6, ERG Legion

Like going fast?
#29
Speaking only about 808s... I like them. They're very pure, and I think they're better with the 18v mod. From my experience, they don't colour your tone much so you can tweak it to get the sound you want, instead of having a pre-coloured tone. They're evenly voiced too, assuming you adjust the pickup height properly.

I'm looking to getting 808Xs though in the future, because I really like my 85X.
Ibanez RG2228 w/ EMG808Xs | Line 6 POD HD500 | Mackie HD1221
#30
Quote by hmmm_de_hum
Planet music, i go in there plenty of times. Do you want to try out some 808's sometime? I can bring my 8 in if you want, i've been in there a handful of times to play the hollowbodies in store

Doug - How long have you been working in Ipswich and not telling me mate?

I'm in there all the time: if you ever see a guy with long hair, a grey hoodie and a big messenger bag, it's probably me.

And I probably won't be buying the schecter now if i can help it: I just found out how much I pay on import taxes. Not gounna happen.


Quote by a_hub10
There is always the C-8 Blackjack ATX, its normally around the same price. Search Matthew McGhee on youtube. He has some really cool clean tapping songs. Kind of like andy mckee with an eight string.

I love his work. Found him a few months back
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Aug 6, 2011,
#31
Quote by hmmm_de_hum
Planet music, i go in there plenty of times. Do you want to try out some 808's sometime? I can bring my 8 in if you want, i've been in there a handful of times to play the hollowbodies in store

Doug - How long have you been working in Ipswich and not telling me mate?


It's only been a couple of months but in my defense I keep forgetting that you still live in this part of the country when it's not uni time

I think we should have a little meetup in town at some point, all three of us...
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.