#1
Hey People

The thing is we are gonna record in like a home studio place and we dont have much experience when it comes to recording. In this musical project there are 2 guitars, and there are many riffs in which we play the same thing. So wot is the correct way to record that? Should we in those riffs record one guitar only, or should we record both of the guitars and pan one guitar to the left and the other to the right? What would give me a better and compact sound? How the the pros do it? bands like lamb of god, or as i lay dying? how do they do this?

Thanks for your ideas!
#3
Quote by Good_Lord
Try both methods and check out what sounds best ?


I was going to say this, its all about personal preferance.
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#4
Don't know how the bands you mention do it, but I usually record 2 rhythm guitars and pan them left & right like you suggested.

In addition I also do things like have one set to the bridge pickup and one to the neck pickup or sometimes two different guitars, one with humbuckers & one with single coil pickups to give a bit more differentiation between them.
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#5
This is what we did for our last demo and we plan on doing the same for the full length we are currently recording (just about to wrap up drum tracking!):

1) Record the first rhythm guitar then re-record it, your goal here is to "double" the track so it has a nice rich full sound. The hardest part is hitting every note the same, this is where something like pro tools comes in handy, not sure what the procedure is called but it basically takes both tracks and lines them up for you so that each note is roughly being picked at the same time.

2) Flatten this into one track (so if you're looking at your recording program it's not 2 tracks, it should be 1).

3) Do both above steps for the 2nd rhythm guitar (record twice, flatten to one track/channel)

4) Pan one of the flattened tracks to the left and the other to the right 100%

5) Copy/paste the flattened tracks from #2 and pan one 25% left, the other 25% right and turn the volume on these tracks down by 50% or so. (This is so if only one guitar/stereo channel is playing then you'll be able to hear it somewhat coming out of the other speaker instead of being dead silence). This is also a great effect for 5.1 surround sound systems.

Here is what it sounds like (we used a 5150 for both guitar tones):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-xwOSnDgvI
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Kill every last Man, Woman and Machine
The cleansing has begun.
Your meek defense is foolish,
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Last edited by cptazad at Aug 6, 2011,
#6
Well, normally those metal bands would quad-track. So basically you record 4 guitar tracks and pan them hard left and right. For example, this is how I pan my guitars when I quad-track:

Guitar 1: L - 100
Guitar 2: L - 80
Guitar 3: R - 80
Guitar 4: R - 100

HOWEVER:

1) Ideally you'd want to have a different guitar sound on Guitars 1 and 3 than on 2 and 4. Whether it's by using a different guitar, different amp, different settings...

2) The most important one: ALL OF THE GUITAR TRACKS MUST BE TIGHTER THAN A SCHOOLGIRL. Those metal bands usually end up editing some guitar tracks in order to make them as tight as possible.
Call me Andrew. It's my name.

Quote by theogonia777
i fond God too, man! i sat next to him on the bus once. he told be the meaning of life and then gave me a pretzel. i can't remember what the meaning of live was, but it was a good pretzel, man!
#7
Quote by cptazad
This is what we did for our last demo and we plan on doing the same for the full length we are currently recording (just about to wrap up drum tracking!):


Go for it, but be careful of this:

Layering is cool, but after a while, it starts to take on the opposite effect. When we were recording our album, we went kind of over the top, because we could, and we had two guitar players - each playing two different guitars (and/or through two different amps), each double tracked for a total of eight guitars. Strangely, we found that when we took half of them out, the sound got a lot bigger.

Here is what happens:

"Punchiness" lives in the air between the sounds. Put another way, for something to sound big, it needs to be in a context where other things are small. You need dynamic range both between and among parts.

Consider:
1. Record a dozen guitars and then bounce them down to a single track. The wave form looks like a brick.
2. Record one guitar part and look at the wave form. It has the peaks and valleys that you expect from a musical track. (unless the whole thing is fuzzed out, but that's another matter....)

That "brick" actually sounds smaller than the track with the hills and valleys, mostly because there is no air for the track to breathe... and thus... it suffocates itself.

CT
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#8
Quote by axemanchris
Go for it, but be careful of this:

Layering is cool, but after a while, it starts to take on the opposite effect. When we were recording our album, we went kind of over the top, because we could, and we had two guitar players - each playing two different guitars (and/or through two different amps), each double tracked for a total of eight guitars. Strangely, we found that when we took half of them out, the sound got a lot bigger.

Here is what happens:

"Punchiness" lives in the air between the sounds. Put another way, for something to sound big, it needs to be in a context where other things are small. You need dynamic range both between and among parts.

Consider:
1. Record a dozen guitars and then bounce them down to a single track. The wave form looks like a brick.
2. Record one guitar part and look at the wave form. It has the peaks and valleys that you expect from a musical track. (unless the whole thing is fuzzed out, but that's another matter....)

That "brick" actually sounds smaller than the track with the hills and valleys, mostly because there is no air for the track to breathe... and thus... it suffocates itself.

CT


This is very true and must be used wisely (the technique being discussed)

I also forgot to add that each guitar needs to have a different tone, my bad.
"Our revenge so everlasting sweet,
Enslave your Children, Behead the weak,
Kill every last Man, Woman and Machine
The cleansing has begun.
Your meek defense is foolish,
we come from the stars a trillion strong."
#9
I don't really go metal but I nearly always record rhythm parts twice and pan left and right as I find it's the best, most natural way to make the guitars sound 'up front' and 'big'.
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#10
You got a great sound.

How does your sound changes when you do just double tracking ?
The symphonizer
#11
Quote by Sympho
You got a great sound.

How does your sound changes when you do just double tracking ?


Are you asking me?
"Our revenge so everlasting sweet,
Enslave your Children, Behead the weak,
Kill every last Man, Woman and Machine
The cleansing has begun.
Your meek defense is foolish,
we come from the stars a trillion strong."
#12
Quote by cptazad
Are you asking me?


Yes I am !

Tried quadtracking today, volume is bigger, but double tracking is much cleaner
The symphonizer
#13
Quote by Sympho
Yes I am !

Tried quadtracking today, volume is bigger, but double tracking is much cleaner

Then your playing isn't tight enough.
Call me Andrew. It's my name.

Quote by theogonia777
i fond God too, man! i sat next to him on the bus once. he told be the meaning of life and then gave me a pretzel. i can't remember what the meaning of live was, but it was a good pretzel, man!
#14
Quote by GoIrish668
Then your playing isn't tight enough.


Not necessarily true (but possible). A lot of people feel that quad tracking makes the guitars sound BIGGER but that double tracking produces a notably cleaner sound. It's why a lot of producers won't waste the time doing it. Bigger sound =/= better sound.
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#16
Quote by GoIrish668
Then your playing isn't tight enough.



Nope, that's not it.


Perhaps quad tracking sounds better than double tracking on monitors ?
The symphonizer
Last edited by Sympho at Aug 8, 2011,
#17
Depends on monitors as well Sympho, we were using like $20k speakers in a high end studio which means it might sound like shit coming through ipod headphones.

For Xenocide's upcoming full length we won't be using quadtracking, it'll be doubled but panned in such a way as to give it the 5.1 feel even though its only stereo left and right (doubled over).

In my experience, double tracking produces a cleaner sound but quad tracking (IF panned correctly, don't expect a good sound if all 4 guitars are just panned 100% left and right....) when panned correctly gives it a super rich/full sound. But for this record we want the drums and bass to the forefront so guitars will be doubled instead of quad and turned down in the mix a bit to give it a more bass-y (but not too bass-y) sound.

Good luck on your recordings man! We are headed into the studio tonight to start tracking rhythm guitars, stoked!
"Our revenge so everlasting sweet,
Enslave your Children, Behead the weak,
Kill every last Man, Woman and Machine
The cleansing has begun.
Your meek defense is foolish,
we come from the stars a trillion strong."
#18
Incredible !

Looking forward to your materials ! Sounds incredibly promising, keep us update
The symphonizer
#19
Here is one of our guitarists doubling one of the rhythm tracks from last night, notice how tight he has to be in order to line it up (once its doubled you can go into pro tools and nudge certains notes into place aka "gridding" but we try our best not to grid whenever possible, it makes it too mechanical/cheating.)

You can pick out parts in the vid where what he's recording in real time isn't lining up w/ what he recorded before, very minor though and impossible to tell once all the instruments are mixed properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37l0Y0a_UH8
"Our revenge so everlasting sweet,
Enslave your Children, Behead the weak,
Kill every last Man, Woman and Machine
The cleansing has begun.
Your meek defense is foolish,
we come from the stars a trillion strong."
Last edited by cptazad at Aug 10, 2011,