#1
Hey guys,

I'm looking into buying my first Fender guitar. I'd really love a all-black stratocaster like this one :



or this one :



Does Squier make this model ? My budget is 600€.

Thanks!
#2
At a 600 Euro budget, you should not be looking at Squiers.

I know that Guitar Center has a Strat exactly like the one in picture 2, but I doubt they ship to Europe.

What you could do is buy a regular Black Strat (with a White Pickguard) and just replace the pickguard. The pickguard only costs some $20US (not sure how much in Europe) and the switch takes 15 minutes to do.
Actually, I go by Dave, but there are already too many Daves on this forum.


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#4
Oh right yes. Has the regular black strat any differences other than the white pickguard . Like the wood finish or something ?

EDIT: So I should be looking into MIM Fenders ? Is a 600€ budget okay ?
#5
imo in your budget you'd be best off getting a fender classic series strat (or maybe classic player, if it's within your budget)

if you're really too fussed about the colour you could always get a black one and then save up for a black pickguard to attach later on - it'll be worth it in the long run to get a better guitar to begin with and personalise it later on.
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#6
you noticed that guitar(the 1st) is HSS right? you want 1 strat with humbucker too or just the colour?


EDIT: yeah i agree it's easier if you buy an strat black with white pickguard and then buy a black pickguard, and the knobs and stuff that won't cost that much

example: you buy this guitar http://www.thomann.de/pt/fender_mex50_strat_mn_blk.htm
and then you buy this pickguard n knobs:
http://www.thomann.de/pt/fender_strat_accessory_kit_black.htm
http://www.thomann.de/pt/fender_strat_pickguard_black.htm
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Last edited by gutu at Aug 7, 2011,
#7
Oh no I don't want humbuckers, sorry I didn't notice it on the picture. I don't want tremolo either.
#8
a strat without a tremolo is kinda hard xD, or when you mean tremolo you mean floyd?
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#9
Quote by gutu
you noticed that guitar(the 1st) is HSS right? you want 1 strat with humbucker too or just the colour?


EDIT: yeah i agree it's easier if you buy an strat black with white pickguard and then buy a black pickguard, and the knobs and stuff that won't cost that much

example: you buy this guitar http://www.thomann.de/pt/fender_mex50_strat_mn_blk.htm
and then you buy this pickguard n knobs:
http://www.thomann.de/pt/fender_strat_accessory_kit_black.htm
http://www.thomann.de/pt/fender_strat_pickguard_black.htm



A big thanks for the links!
I can still keep the white knobs from the guitar right ? I like them!

So just a few questions :

- Can I take of the tremolo ? I don't really need it.
- There won't be anything weird with the pickguard change ? Like wood finish that doesn't match or something ?
- Are Fender Classic Series good quality/build guitars ?

Thanks!
#10
Quote by gutu
a strat without a tremolo is kinda hard xD, or when you mean tremolo you mean floyd?


I mean the metal bar sticking out
#11
You're better off with some Squiers (with a good setup and a few modifications), then you'd be with most Made in Mexico Strats. Although the one that comes in all black I think is a Bullet, which is the bottom of the line. So avoid that.

Do you really just want 21 frets instead of 22? Some Squiers come with 22. But for most Squiers (except the Standard series) you'd need to get a custom pick guard--the Bullets and Affinities, and even some of their higher-end guitars have non standard dimensions, so regular Strat pick guards rarely fit those.

Have you considered a Blacktop Strat? It'll be HH instead of HSS. They even come with an [Original?]Floyd Rose now for about the same price.

I'd point you to the American Specials, but they're only available in Red and Sunburst. The Highway 1 Strats can be a good deal, but they're flat black instead of glossy.

Good luck.
#12
Yeah, i mean i never played one besides on a store, and i'm a strat lover, like them in sunburst <3
you can take the tremolo bar, and you also might find on the internet ppl telling you to add more too springs to make the bridge more steady and give a dif sounding, some say it's better but well i never tried, and i recomend you to at least read some stuff on the internet b4 doing it

the pickguard change doesn't do anything dif, you just have to be careful with the wires when taking the pickguard, i changed my pickguard once and honnestly theres like no diff, it was an squier, if it's a normal strat and a normal pickguard it should work.

If your wondering about the sound and quality, you should go to a guitar store or something to try it out, if you have them there xD.

About the knobs ofc you can keep the whites it doesn't change anything xD just the colour, i just send it bc of the pickups cover color
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#13
Quote by jetwash69
You're better off with some Squiers (with a good setup and a few modifications), then you'd be with most Made in Mexico Strats. Although the one that comes in all black I think is a Bullet, which is the bottom of the line. So avoid that.

Do you really just want 21 frets instead of 22? Some Squiers come with 22. But for most Squiers (except the Standard series) you'd need to get a custom pick guard--the Bullets and Affinities, and even some of their higher-end guitars have non standard dimensions, so regular Strat pick guards rarely fit those.

Have you considered a Blacktop Strat? It'll be HH instead of HSS. They even come with an [Original?]Floyd Rose now for about the same price.

I'd point you to the American Specials, but they're only available in Red and Sunburst. The Highway 1 Strats can be a good deal, but they're flat black instead of glossy.

Good luck.


Thanks I was looking into the Squiers because, as you said, with some modifications and a good setup it can be a great guitar.

What's the difference between 21 and 22 frets ? Who plays those frets?! Am I missing something?

HSS and HH, it's the pickups right ? HH is humbuckers ? Well I'd like only 3 single coils.

So what Squier should I get for the pickguard dimensions issue ?
#14
You can switch the trem with a hard tail for not a lot of money. Or if you just don't want the "bar", those all come off. Half the time I leave the bar off and just push or pull the bridge itself--occasionally I'll even bend the neck--but neck bending probably isn't the best idea.

I know the reasons people have for wanting hard tails, but they don't seem sound to me--the closest I have to a hard tail right now is my Squier's trem is set up with the springs so tight the trem only works one direction--and I'm thinking about loosening the claw screws so the trem will be like my other Fenders, even though it still won't be able to half of what my Floyd Rose guitars can do.
#15
lol if your going to buy a squier to modify it i recomend you to get a few more money and knowlege about the stuff
And if i was you i would go to a guitar store and try out every fender/squier strat and even some fender telecasters they also have a great sound and look also great

EDit: ALso about the fret, there are ppl that even have more han 30 frets xD, having less 1 fret isn't a big deal, but yeah 1 fret might do the dif in some songs... you can still bend the 21th fret to get to 23th sound or something but won't even sound the same and if on the song they bend on 23th ur screwd xD
but i think there's always a way of playing it. Unless your doing to solo alot or play Rock you Like A Hurricane's intro solo your good...

And yeah i wouldn't go for a strat with Humbuckers, dunno why i just love strat's pickups, hambuckers are sweet tho, but i don't think that's what people are looking on strats.. With humbuckers and floyds you should be then looking for a ibanez or jackson, more quality for cheaper prices in terms of floyds and humbuckers.


(sorry my english is just bad, it's not my main language)
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Last edited by gutu at Aug 7, 2011,
#16
Well I have a fair bit of knowledge about guitars especially LP's where I replaced pickups, swith and pots on my Custom. But Fenders are new to me.
I live in a very small town in France that doesnt have Guitar Center where you can try stuff unfortunately.

I think I'll get a Classic Series and change the pickguard. As for the tremolo bar, if I take it off I have to tighten the springs right?
#17
Quote by alans056
Thanks I was looking into the Squiers because, as you said, with some modifications and a good setup it can be a great guitar.

What's the difference between 21 and 22 frets ? Who plays those frets?! Am I missing something?

HSS and HH, it's the pickups right ? HH is humbuckers ? Well I'd like only 3 single coils.

So what Squier should I get for the pickguard dimensions issue ?


Some songs (lots of them) use notes on the 22nd fret. The one that's been annoying me with my Squier lately is "Breed" by Nirvana. You can play it [wrong] without that fret, but it loses the impact. I don't play enough Arctic Monkeys or the other bands you mention to tell you off the top of my head which (if any) of their songs need the 22d (or more) frets.

You're close on the pickups. HSS = humbucker, single, single like your top picture. SSS = single, single, single like your bottom picture. HH = 2 humbuckers. I have 3 guitars in HH, 1 in SSS, 1 in SS, and 1 in HSH, and I gotta tell ya, my favorite is HH. You can wire most replacement humbuckers it so you can "split" the coils and get that single coil sound when you want it. I never use the middle pickup alone on my guitars that have them; the only time I ever use it is on the SSS I normally keep the selector in position 4 (middle/bridge) so it's almost like I had a humbucker (cuts down on unwanted noise and sounds more aggressive). There's only a few songs I play with single coils, and that's usually on the neck.

The Squier "Standard" models can use pickguards made for American Standard Strats. The most common one of those has a black glitter paint job and an Agathis body, so you probably want to avoid that--I haven't come accross one in a store that sounded good, but perhaps with a good nut, locking tuners, and an American bridge it might sound OK. Or maybe not--it might just be the Agathis. It's not the pups--they've all sounded bad unplugged, too. With a shim in the neck and locking tuners, my Squier Affinity plays better than my MIA Strat (except the fret shortage).

Look for a Squier with 22 frets, a plain gloss body, the 2 point trem (instead of 6)--it might have a mirrored pick guard, knurled chrome knobs, and the headstock might be painted black. But if it has the 22 frets and 2 point trem then it'll probably accept an MIA pick guard. If not, then you can send the guard to one of the custom pick guard shops and they'll use it as a template to cut you one that will fit, and they'll do it with any pickup and controls configuration you want. Lots of places will do that in America for around $50. When I converted my Squier from SSS to HH I had a shop do it like this:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1149482 (picture at last post on page 1)
#18
Thanks a lot! So I looked on thomann, and the Squier standards don't sound really good to me! They look cheap and only 1 is in black&white and it's a "fat strat" whatever that is ?

Maybe my best option is a Classic Player ?
#19
Quote by alans056
Well I have a fair bit of knowledge about guitars especially LP's where I replaced pickups, swith and pots on my Custom. But Fenders are new to me.
I live in a very small town in France that doesnt have Guitar Center where you can try stuff unfortunately.

I think I'll get a Classic Series and change the pickguard. As for the tremolo bar, if I take it off I have to tighten the springs right?



you don't have to actually tighten the springs, you can just add springs, and not even that you need i just gave that idea because since your not going to use the tremolo you could do it, so it gets more steady and i heard that it's harder to get out of tune that way... but i just love trems hehehhe.

yeah i agree with the other guy, but he has knowlege of the stuff and i never done something like he did, and, like you i don't have a guitar store close to me, at least within 9 hours by car xD

The only thing i don't agree with the other guy is that he likes HH with floyds... 'cause it would be a real pain but i think if you have knowlege, or you plan to have you should get a squier and do as he says
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#20
Quote by gutu


And yeah i wouldn't go for a strat with Humbuckers, dunno why i just love strat's pickups, hambuckers are sweet tho, but i don't think that's what people are looking on strats.


That used to be good advice before coil splitting. Now if you want the single coil sound for certain songs, all you have to do is wire up the guitar to enable coil splitting, and flip a switch (or pull up a knob). You can even wire up the selector switch to so that's one of the positions.

Quote by gutu


With humbuckers and floyds you should be then looking for a ibanez or jackson, more quality for cheaper prices in terms of floyds and humbuckers.



That's generally great advice (2 of my Floyds are Ibanez, and one is a Schecter--which I found when I was about to buy a Jackson). But now with the Fender Black Top, you can get a Floyd Rose on a Fender with 22 frets for less than what the regular Mexican Floyd Rose cost with 21 frets. And for about the same price as a mid-level Ibanez or Jackson. Yeah, it won't have 24 frets like those would, and I don't have experience with the buckers it comes with, but it makes Fender a contender like it never had been.

Especially if you want a black Strat with a black pick guard for under $1,000.

But the TS would probably not have the patience for restringing Floyd Roses (takes me at least a half hour longer than a regular trem), and the music he plays doesn't need it.
#21
Quote by alans056
Thanks a lot! So I looked on thomann, and the Squier standards don't sound really good to me! They look cheap and only 1 is in black&white and it's a "fat strat" whatever that is ?

Maybe my best option is a Classic Player ?



A Fat Strat is a name for a design of electric guitars that are based on the Fender Stratocaster, but have a hot humbucking pickup at the bridge position instead of a single-coil pickup. Apart from this difference, a Fat Strat still retains other characteristics of a Stratocaster, such as the C-shape neck (instead of the thin neck in Superstrat), a 21/22-fret fretboard, and a synchronized tremolo bridge. Like "superstrat", the term is commonly used to denote any electric guitar in this style, with or without an association to Fender, though Fender recognize such an arrangement and produce their own Fat Strats.
A Fat Strat is more conventionally referred to as a Strat HSS

at least that's what i found about it xDDD

Anyway, squiers are supoust to not sound so good that's why the guy is talking about moding it, including the pickups and stuff xDD
but as i said it will be a pain in the ass if you do it without knowing the stuff, or having some1 to help you.

if i was you i would wait a few add 200€ and then buy a awsome strat for 800€ but if i really wanted the strat for 600€ i would go for a classic player.

ALSO i would first check my amp and my pedals.
but if your really sure about the strat go for it , just read the reviews of the guitar b4 u buy it, check here on ultimate guitar check on other places, etc..
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#22
My gear is not too bad : a Fender Blues Jr and Visual Sound Jekyl&Hyde.

But yeah, as you said, I don't want the hassle to upgrade and mod a Squier. What's the main difference between a Classic Player and a 800€ strat?

I don't need the floyd rose and tremolo stuff
#23
Quote by jetwash69
That used to be good advice before coil splitting. Now if you want the single coil sound for certain songs, all you have to do is wire up the guitar to enable coil splitting, and flip a switch (or pull up a knob). You can even wire up the selector switch to so that's one of the positions.


That's generally great advice (2 of my Floyds are Ibanez, and one is a Schecter--which I found when I was about to buy a Jackson). But now with the Fender Black Top, you can get a Floyd Rose on a Fender with 22 frets for less than what the regular Mexican Floyd Rose cost with 21 frets. And for about the same price as a mid-level Ibanez or Jackson. Yeah, it won't have 24 frets like those would, and I don't have experience with the buckers it comes with, but it makes Fender a contender like it never had been.

Especially if you want a black Strat with a black pick guard for under $1,000.

But the TS would probably not have the patience for restringing Floyd Roses (takes me at least a half hour longer than a regular trem), and the music he plays doesn't need it.



Nice, and thanks, yeah it's me who sometimes tunes my friend's ibanez who has a floyd, it's just awsome, it takes me sometime, and changing the strings and stuff, the worse part was when it came out we had no idea of what a floyd was we were so stupid at the time, it took us like 1 month to tune the guitar, then i tuned the springs to work on lower tune, and then i had to tune the springs back but anyway... it's just awsome a floyd if you go around crazy with distortion, but it doesn't seem to be his type.
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#24
Quote by gutu
you don't have to actually tighten the springs, you can just add springs, and not even that you need i just gave that idea because since your not going to use the tremolo you could do it, so it gets more steady and i heard that it's harder to get out of tune that way... but i just love trems hehehhe.


It's easier and cheaper to tighten 2 screws than add springs. If the screws stop before it's tight enough, then you can get shorter screws--they're cheaper than springs, too.

You can also block the trem with wooden wedges.

Or just replace it with a hard tail bridge.

Yes, the tuning stability will be better with a tight claw, but only because you remove the variable of string tension vs claw tension. Once you gain mastery over string tension vs claw tension (like you have to if you rely on a Floyd Rose trem), then it's not an issue anymore. I don't even have to re-tune my Floyd Rose guitars between string changes at all (unless they go through temperature changes).

Other tuning stability issues include the quality of the nut and the tuning machines.
#25
Quote by gutu
Nice, and thanks, yeah it's me who sometimes tunes my friend's ibanez who has a floyd, it's just awsome, it takes me sometime, and changing the strings and stuff, the worse part was when it came out we had no idea of what a floyd was we were so stupid at the time, it took us like 1 month to tune the guitar, then i tuned the springs to work on lower tune, and then i had to tune the springs back but anyway... it's just awsome a floyd if you go around crazy with distortion, but it doesn't seem to be his type.


:-) +1
#26
Quote by alans056
My gear is not too bad : a Fender Blues Jr and Visual Sound Jekyl&Hyde.

But yeah, as you said, I don't want the hassle to upgrade and mod a Squier. What's the main difference between a Classic Player and a 800€ strat?

I don't need the floyd rose and tremolo stuff



lol there's alot of dif, it would be great if you had a store close to you, 'cause it really has to do, but i'm sure whatever you buy you'll just love it.

if you go for a 600€ you should see fender classic players
but if you go from 700-800 you should see the deluxes

but again if you follow that theory you'll never buy anything because you'll always keep saving money for a better guitar.

It's really up to you but i think you should buy a 600€ and with the rest of the money buy the stuff like the pickguard and then you'll see.
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#27
Quote by jetwash69
It's easier and cheaper to tighten 2 screws than add springs. If the screws stop before it's tight enough, then you can get shorter screws--they're cheaper than springs, too.

You can also block the trem with wooden wedges.

Or just replace it with a hard tail bridge.

Yes, the tuning stability will be better with a tight claw, but only because you remove the variable of string tension vs claw tension. Once you gain mastery over string tension vs claw tension (like you have to if you rely on a Floyd Rose trem), then it's not an issue anymore. I don't even have to re-tune my Floyd Rose guitars between string changes at all (unless they go through temperature changes).

Other tuning stability issues include the quality of the nut and the tuning machines.



yeah but i think it's still easier to buy the springs, as they are not so expensive and they're cool, i have to buy new ones, my squier's ones are rusty hhahahah

check out the springs price:
http://www.thomann.de/pt/goeldo_tremolofeder_standard.htm


just 2 prings = 4€...
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#28
I see thanks a lot for the info everyone, I'm going to get the Fender MIM Classic Series SSS for 550€ and a black pickguard!

I have been playing for 1year 1/2 on a Les Paul I need some change!
#29
Cool your gonna stay with the pickups cover in white?


Les Pauls are Great.
My next guitar might be a epiphone or gibson SG with double neck
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#30
yes I will leave the white stuff to make it look like this !



I'm so excited!
#31
kk goodluck
When you get the guitar tell me i want pics
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