#1
Okay Hey UG!

So, the style of music i play is changing, and my rig needs an upgrade!

I normally run a strat through my effects and into a nice old JCM 900, and don't get me wrong, its a great rig, its just not what i need!

Im going to be venturing more into the heavier stuff, in the style of Children Of Bodom, Finntroll (any finntroll fans here? :P) and Amon Amarth...

Im going to eventually upgrade both my guitars and amps, so what would be best? Im going to have about £500-700 on each (amps and guitars) What should i go and check out?

Thanks
My Gig Rig...

Fender Straocaster or Gibson Les Paul Slash Special -->Lovepedal Amp 50 --> Boss DD-3 --> Crybaby(soon to be Wh10 reissue) --> Big Muff PI --> Boss DS-2 --> Marshall JCM 900
#2
JCM900?

You should look at blackstar...

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#3
£ is Euros correct? So about 650-900 USD.

Amps wise.. I'm guessing you're going to have 2? Is one a practice amp and one to gig? If you're not afraid to turn knobs to find your sound, I'd look for a used Mesa Dual Rec. I have a JCM800 that I push with an old tube screamer and she can pull off metal. I've used my Mesa Bottle Rocket pre-amp as well with it, and it cut as well as the tube screamer. Still love my Mesa Triple Rec. for metal though.

Guitars.. A lot of people seem to like a guitar with active pick-ups for metal.. I don't for this reason.. When using active pick-ups, you don't drive the amp as much. You could always mod your Strat and drop in some passive EMG's and get a killer tone.. Not to mention It's just as good as buying a new guitar and cheaper.. If you're looking to buy a new guitar, I'd recommend a Jackson with Duncan pick-ups. They absolutely shread for metal. Could also look at a few Gibsons too like the SG, they get a nice sound.
Last edited by ryantombasco at Aug 7, 2011,
#4
Your guitars should be fine with pickup replacements to be honest!
Unless you want a guitar with an aesthetic more fitting to that style, but in terms of sounds, just stick some more appropriate pickups in your current ones and you'll be set to hit most sounds you need.
#5
Quote by ryantombasco
£ is Euros correct? So about 650-900 USD.


Nah, £ is UK pounds. So he has about 820 - 1,150USD

You should be able to find a used Dual or Triple Rectifier..,which should do that sound well, might need a boost to tighten the low end though.
#6
Quote by ChiliFan01
I normally run a strat through my effects and into a nice old JCM 900, and don't get me wrong, its a great rig, its just not what i need!

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#8
Quote by bubb_tubbs
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Play nice
#9
I listen to all 3 bands, and I'd be quite surprised if you can't get a good tone just by using a boost capable of moderate gain levels.
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#10
With the kind of cash your thinking of dropping on a new amp you can pretty much forget any Mesa unless you really hit the lucky deal. looking at £1200 or there abouts for a used recto.

You probably got the cash to take a look at a Peavey 6505 or 5150 if you can find one although id be tempted to cut the guitar budget lots and whack the majority of the cash on an amp and look at amps in the £1200 kind of range as this is where things start getting tasty on the secondhand market.

Alternatively try getting your hands on a decent OD and try the 900 out with a kick up the preamp.
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#11
Quote by halikus
With the kind of cash your thinking of dropping on a new amp you can pretty much forget any Mesa unless you really hit the lucky deal. looking at £1200 or there abouts for a used recto.

You probably got the cash to take a look at a Peavey 6505 or 5150 if you can find one although id be tempted to cut the guitar budget lots and whack the majority of the cash on an amp and look at amps in the £1200 kind of range as this is where things start getting tasty on the secondhand market.

Alternatively try getting your hands on a decent OD and try the 900 out with a kick up the preamp.

I've found plenty of used Dual Rectifiers with a 4x12 for around $1,100.oo USD. Just sayin'. And he already has a 4x12 I'm guessing, with his JCM900, so that really isn't mandatory right off the bat. So even a Triple Rectifier isn't out of the question used.
Last edited by ryantombasco at Aug 8, 2011,
#12
Quote by ryantombasco
£ is Euros correct? So about 650-900 USD.

Amps wise.. I'm guessing you're going to have 2? Is one a practice amp and one to gig? If you're not afraid to turn knobs to find your sound, I'd look for a used Mesa Dual Rec. I have a JCM800 that I push with an old tube screamer and she can pull off metal. I've used my Mesa Bottle Rocket pre-amp as well with it, and it cut as well as the tube screamer. Still love my Mesa Triple Rec. for metal though.

Guitars.. A lot of people seem to like a guitar with active pick-ups for metal.. I don't for this reason.. When using active pick-ups, you don't drive the amp as much. You could always mod your Strat and drop in some passive EMG's and get a killer tone.. Not to mention It's just as good as buying a new guitar and cheaper.. If you're looking to buy a new guitar, I'd recommend a Jackson with Duncan pick-ups. They absolutely shread for metal. Could also look at a few Gibsons too like the SG, they get a nice sound.


Um no man.
Actives tend to ahve a hotter signal than passives. Especially actives like the EMG 81/85.
#13
From the bands you listed.

amon amarth uses 6505's
Children of bodom (alexi afaik) uses a Kerry King Signature Head, used to use JCM800s.
Finntroll used shitty JVS when i saw them, they sounded like an amateur band. Granted I think they were using the venues backline.
#14
Quote by ryantombasco
I've found plenty of used Dual Rectifiers with a 4x12 for around $1,100.oo USD. Just sayin'. And he already has a 4x12 I'm guessing, with his JCM900, so that really isn't mandatory right off the bat. So even a Triple Rectifier isn't out of the question used.


Yeah, but all Mesas are ridiculously overpriced both new and used in Europe as a whole. For example a used Mesa Mark 5 here is about $3500.... And I havent found a used recto under $1700....
#15
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Um no man.
Actives tend to ahve a hotter signal than passives. Especially actives like the EMG 81/85.

Exactly my point.

Active pickups release a higher (louder) output signal directly to the amp.. Which means you need to drive the amp a lot more to achieve distortion of your output signal.. Which in turn means you're losing the basic dynamics of achieving the natural overdrive of the amp because you're achieving the sound of the guitar more-so than the amp in the pre amp stage. That's a very basic concept. The upside to active pickups, is that you have more range of response frequency wise (lows and highs).. Then again, the last time I checked, guitars were mid range frequency instruments. The upside to passive pickups is that you'll get a much punchier sound in the mid range.
Last edited by ryantombasco at Aug 8, 2011,
#16
Quote by ryantombasco
Exactly my point.

Active pickups release a higher (louder) output signal directly to the amp.. Which means you need to drive the amp a lot more to achieve distortion of your output signal.. Which in turn means you're losing the basic dynamics of achieving the natural overdrive of the amp because you're achieving the sound of the guitar more-so than the amp in the pre amp stage. That's a very basic concept. The upside to active pickups, is that you have more range of response frequency wise (lows and highs).. Then again, the last time I checked, guitars were mid range frequency instruments. The upside to passive pickups is that you'll get a much punchier sound in the mid range.

WOW! This amazes me!
#17
To the people suggesting used Mesa's, they're shockingly expensive in Europe. Definitely not within the TS' budget unless he got crazy lucky.
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#18
Quote by ryantombasco
£ is Euros correct? So about 650-900 USD.

Amps wise.. I'm guessing you're going to have 2? Is one a practice amp and one to gig? If you're not afraid to turn knobs to find your sound, I'd look for a used Mesa Dual Rec. I have a JCM800 that I push with an old tube screamer and she can pull off metal. I've used my Mesa Bottle Rocket pre-amp as well with it, and it cut as well as the tube screamer. Still love my Mesa Triple Rec. for metal though.

Guitars.. A lot of people seem to like a guitar with active pick-ups for metal.. I don't for this reason.. When using active pick-ups, you don't drive the amp as much. You could always mod your Strat and drop in some passive EMG's and get a killer tone.. Not to mention It's just as good as buying a new guitar and cheaper.. If you're looking to buy a new guitar, I'd recommend a Jackson with Duncan pick-ups. They absolutely shread for metal. Could also look at a few Gibsons too like the SG, they get a nice sound.


Passive EMGs are garbage.

Go for the real deal.
#19
Quote by PRS-Metal
Passive EMGs are garbage.

Go for the real deal.

To each their own. I love my passive pickups and the more natural sound you get with them. Perhaps it would be wise to agree to disagree on the topic before it turns into a bitch fight, lmao.

EDIT: Just thought I'd share some info. that I actually pulled off of this site.

Quote by nirvanaozzie

Passive Pickups
Passive pickups were the first kind of pickups. They generate a signal which is powerful enough to drive an amp and loud enough to be used without any pre-amplification. They have many more winds of wire than active pickups and much stronger magnets. They are more prone (but won?t necessarily have) to having microphonic feedback. Microphonic feedback in your pickup is when there is too much vibration in the coils of your pickup and you get that annoying squealing sound, though some like it. Since passive pickups have more wire, there?s more of a chance of there being an error somewhere and something being microphonic. Also the stronger magnetic field increases chances of being microphonic as well. Passive pickups generally use potentiometer values of above 250, and sometimes don?t have potentiometers.

Active Pickups
Active pickups on their own are much weaker than passive pickups. They have a much weaker magnet and much fewer coil windings, which means their signal is very trebly and very low output on their own. They have built in pre-amps (which is what the battery is for), which brings their output level to one similar to, and in many cases greater than those of passive pickups. They use much lower value potentiometers because the signal is so trebly and a lot of the high end needs to be cut off to be usable. Active Pickups use pot values usually below 250k; anything too great will give a signal that is far too trebly and basically useless.


Each has their pros and cons. The main argument for passive pickups is that they sound more genuine and that you don?t have to change all your electronics to change between passive pickups, since most guitars use passive pickups to begin with. The main argument for active pickups is that they don?t have feedback, sound more hi-fi and the tone isn?t altered much with the volume controls. The main argument against passive pickups is that they?re microphonic and pull too hard on the strings, reducing sustain. The main argument against active pickups is that they sound sterile.

Neither is by default better than the other, and plenty of artists in most any genre will use either type, though passive is more common.
Last edited by ryantombasco at Aug 9, 2011,
#20
Quote by Chaosinborn
From the bands you listed.

amon amarth uses 6505's
Children of bodom (alexi afaik) uses a Kerry King Signature Head, used to use JCM800s.
Finntroll used shitty JVS when i saw them, they sounded like an amateur band. Granted I think they were using the venues backline.

IIRC he used a Lee Jackson preamp with a vht power amp at least througuh hatecrew deathroll. i don't know after that though. just a thought.
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#21
Quote by ryantombasco
To each their own. I love my passive pickups and the more natural sound you get with them. Perhaps it would be wise to agree to disagree on the topic before it turns into a bitch fight, lmao.

EDIT: Just thought I'd share some info. that I actually pulled off of this site.

You have Passive EMG's and like them? If you have ever played with them you would realize how poor they are especially when compared to price.

EDIT Not all passives are created equal.
Last edited by Sputnik1 at Aug 9, 2011,
#23
Quote by Sputnik1
You have Passive EMG's and like them? If you have ever played with them you would realize how poor they are especially when compared to price.

EDIT Not all passives are created equal.


As I said, to each their own.. But I guess you didn't get that memo, huh?