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#1
hi,i play guitar for 2.5 years(with two half years of it studying for the university entrance exam ), this is my second guitar cover.i know it's very basic and it has very mistakes(+missing final solo ) but please tell me how is my progress and specially how is are hand shapes?i have really big hands and really had problem taking control of them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX96pr7qRAc

i've played stetina books(lead1,lead2,speed mechanic)petrucci rock discipline and many other books,but i think this method(practicing just exercises) is now good for more than 2 years.from now i want to take many many songs and break them down in parts and continue my guitar playing more in song work instead of book practices.is that a good idea?
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#2
Well, you definitely have the right idea with all parts presented in the video. Obviously working on this song slow with a metronome will do wonders but you're pretty close. Side note though, on your tone, if you have a marshall avt 150, using the distortion from your amp or playing the ds 1 on the clean channel on your amp will sound way better than anything the gnx4 could ever poop out. I say that cause i had one, which is why i still dont have one.
#3
you mean avt+ds1 sound better than the gnx4?i thought the gnx4 has a good sound quality,
how is my hand shape?is'nt there any problem that i must solve it?
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#5
Not bad for 2.5 years. Well done. However you really need to get a better tone. The guitar just sounds bad to be honest. You look quite relaxed when playing which is good, but I think you should play with a little more conviction.

The fast parts are beyond you at the moment I'm afraid. You'll need to put in lots of slow, focused practice to get them right.
Originally posted by raygreendaystud
your a fag, listen to real music like green day, you moron
#6
yes you're right i need more practice on fast passages,for the tone quality i don't know what to do,the guitar is not mine(i still don't have one ) and for the amp and effect i don't have the opportunity to upgrade them
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#7
Dude, you're trying too hard, don't force yourself to play fast when you're not ready for it. Keep it slow and controlled focus on gettin a great tone and always keep yourself sounding good. And then gradually speed up as you evolve.

This will just give you bad technique (I read that u were using a high action shitty guitar but imo you should still try some of the things i listed :O)

Edit: If you keep learning to play it wrong it will never be perfect ;D
#8
with this guitar playing ability do you think i'm able to be the lead guitarist of a metallica cover band?me and my friends are starting a small local band,how do you think?am i close or still too early?
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#9
It's clear you practice a lot, and it has paid off.
However, one thing you desperately need to adress is staying in tune. All the gear, and playing style wont mean a thing unless you are in tune.
It sounds like intonation is way way waaay off, and you *need* to get it fixed.
If you don't know how to, have your guitar professionally set up at a guitar store (or by someone knowledgable).
You'll be surprised how much better you'll sound. Playing a guitar that is out of tune will be a crutch for you, since you wont be able to hear what's in tune and what's not.

Keep up the good work!
Oh and if you want to be the lead guitarist of a Metallica cover band you need to change your name to Kirk first...just sayin'!
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#10
Quote by james.hetfield
with this guitar playing ability do you think i'm able to be the lead guitarist of a metallica cover band?me and my friends are starting a small local band,how do you think?am i close or still too early?

You seem pretty solid. If you're feeling comfortable with John Petrucci (even without that monstrous ending solo), Metallica won't be a problem. As long as you can approximate the stuff that Kirk does passably at a gig or show and you do it with some balls, you'll be fine.

Your tone sucks, though. Do what the others said and use your amp when recording.
#11
Quote by james.hetfield
with this guitar playing ability do you think i'm able to be the lead guitarist of a metallica cover band?me and my friends are starting a small local band,how do you think?am i close or still too early?


Unfortunately, I don't think that's on the cards. To be the lead guitarist in a Metallica cover band, you'd need to be able to play 16th notes at around 200bpm relatively cleanly (albeit using relatively simple patterns). On the evidence of this video I don't think you're ready to play that fast.
Originally posted by raygreendaystud
your a fag, listen to real music like green day, you moron
#12
^ Apart from Battery, Damage Inc., Dyer's Eve, Fight Fire with Fire and Seek & Destroy he won't need to play anywhere near 200bpm 16ths... Most (early) Metallica songs have solos around 120-170~ 16ths.
#13
i think the tone ruined the entire thing to be honest. if you had nice saturation and distortion the pull offs would come out a lot cleaner..the almost sounded like mistakes because it just wasn't right man.

Keep practicing. not bad. i dont alt pick the intro riff the i didn't bother to learn the entire song the. only the intro and main riffageeee.(i know petrucci would kill me cause hes a strict alt picker) and im a strict eco picker.
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#14
anchoring?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
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#15
Quote by Anon17
^ Apart from Battery, Damage Inc., Dyer's Eve, Fight Fire with Fire and Seek & Destroy he won't need to play anywhere near 200bpm 16ths... Most (early) Metallica songs have solos around 120-170~ 16ths.


Well obviously you could cherry pick the songs that are easiest but what sort of Metallica tribute band are you if you don't play the likes of Master of Puppets, One, Battery, Sanitarium, etc?

Tbh, I think 120-170 16ths will largely be too fast as well.

It might be worth learning a few Metallica songs though, just not as a Metallica cover band. For Whom the Bell Tolls, Enter Sandman and Sad but True should be achieveable.
Originally posted by raygreendaystud
your a fag, listen to real music like green day, you moron
#16
yes i anchor my pinky to have more stability on my right hand,you're right about metallica solos i need more practice to get them,and also right about the tone quality

considering that i 'm here with this amount of guitar playing ability in 2.5 years(i was really busy) how long do you think it will approximatelytake to have almost standard guitar technique to be a cover band's lead guitarists?maybe another 2 years?

and what should i do i that time?i'm thinking of get malmsteen/angelo... songs and practice them part by part to build speed, do you recommend another way to bulid solid heavy metal guitar technique?
(good to mention that i've read many theory and songwriting books and other than mechanical ability i worked much on other parts of guitar practice)
thanks for your comments
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#17
Not sure on the one finger vibrato..... Hand shape seems unorthodox for that style (thumb over the neck instead of right behind it), considering most of those guys are all about technicallity.

Pretty decent for 2.5 years playing! Keep it up dude.
Always waiting for that bit of inspiration.
#18
Dude... I dont know.. maybe its me, maybe its the song( Iv never listened to it before) but the guitar is totaly out of tune.. =/ Other than that its ok... but the ... the damn guitar is out of tune

EDIT: regarding the lead player for a cover band of metallicas, depending on what albums youll play if its the later ones after justice, i think youd manage, but if youll do killem, ride I honestly doubt it, listen to solos on Jump in the fire, Ktulu, creep, that some BEASTLY speed right there, regardless of the trend to sh!t on Kirk on these forums, he was/is a very good player.

Just in case you lazzy to check those:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyuioqADiQ#t=3m44s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RTgznup5c#t=4m10s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzD0cOqOsmY#t=4m25s
Last edited by DocArunas at Aug 8, 2011,
#19
i've played solos like entersandman-fade to black-nothing else matters-unforgiven... and i'm able to play these songs, i think it's better to pick songs in these speed for now,play them really clean and without mistakes and gradually pick faster songs
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#20
Quote by shredfan
Well obviously you could cherry pick the songs that are easiest but what sort of Metallica tribute band are you if you don't play the likes of Master of Puppets, One, Battery, Sanitarium, etc?

Tbh, I think 120-170 16ths will largely be too fast as well.

It might be worth learning a few Metallica songs though, just not as a Metallica cover band. For Whom the Bell Tolls, Enter Sandman and Sad but True should be achieveable.

Master's solos aren't all that fast. Most of the recognizable licks are, at most, eighth note triplets at 200 bpm, so close to 10 notes per second. The fast bits in the solos for One are all easy tapping bits. Battery is the only tough one that you mentioned as far as solos go.

Most recognizable Metallica songs aren't terribly challenging. If there are fast runs you can't do, learn the recognizable bits and try to fill in the bits in between as best you can.

Quote by DocArunas
regarding the lead player for a cover band of metallicas, depending on what albums youll play if its the later ones after justice, i think youd manage, but if youll do killem, ride I honestly doubt it, listen to solos on Jump in the fire, Ktulu, creep, that some BEASTLY speed right there, regardless of the trend to sh!t on Kirk on these forums, he was/is a very good player.

The thing that people on here get on Kirk about tend to be his generic blues licks, his inconsistency live, and his abuse of effects (mostly wah) to cover up his inconsistency. He's a decent player, but he's gotten slower with age and his live playing suffers for it. Even in his younger days, though, his best known licks aren't terribly challenging. There are fast runs that are a bit rough to get down in between, but they aren't really the meat of his solos.
#21
Quote by Geldin
Master's solos aren't all that fast. Most of the recognizable licks are, at most, eighth note triplets at 200 bpm, so close to 10 notes per second. The fast bits in the solos for One are all easy tapping bits. Battery is the only tough one that you mentioned as far as solos go.

Most recognizable Metallica songs aren't terribly challenging. If there are fast runs you can't do, learn the recognizable bits and try to fill in the bits in between as best you can.


I think you're just disagreeing for the sake of it here. There is a fast ascending lick in MOP that is 16th notes. If you can't play that, you can't play the solo. Same goes for Sanitarium. There is a fast picking part in that solo that is 16ths at perhaps 190bpm. You can't be in a Metallica cover band and only play select parts of Kirk's solos and then be like 'sorry guys can't do that part' for the other bits. Well you could, but you certainly won't impress anyone.
Originally posted by raygreendaystud
your a fag, listen to real music like green day, you moron
#22
how much practice do you think i need to get there?and how much time approximately?i have time to practice 4 hours a day and honestly i don't exactly know what to practice, please guide me i really need your answers
thanks
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#23
Quote by james.hetfield
how much practice do you think i need to get there?and how much time approximately?i have time to practice 4 hours a day and honestly i don't exactly know what to practice, please guide me i really need your answers
thanks


With 4 hours practice a day, you could actually improve very quickly if you are practicing efficiently. I'd recommend working out which specific areas of your technique are letting you down and then focusing on those.

To give you an idea, perhaps your picking hand can't play faster than 16ths at 160bpm when you're tremolo picking a single string.
Maybe your pinky isn't strong enough. Maybe you find inside picking very awkward. Maybe your upstrokes are weaker than your downstrokes. There are so many little things such as these which can hold you back.

Luckily, for anything like the above there are specific exercises/small mechanical adjustments that you can do which will help you eliminate the problem. Often if you work on just one small thing, say inside picking, you will notice a quick improvement in your overall playing, since that mechanic will be cropping up everywhere. So it's just a case of finding your weaknesses and eliminating them really.
Originally posted by raygreendaystud
your a fag, listen to real music like green day, you moron
Last edited by shredfan at Aug 8, 2011,
#24
Quote by shredfan
I think you're just disagreeing for the sake of it here. There is a fast ascending lick in MOP that is 16th notes. If you can't play that, you can't play the solo. Same goes for Sanitarium. There is a fast picking part in that solo that is 16ths at perhaps 190bpm. You can't be in a Metallica cover band and only play select parts of Kirk's solos and then be like 'sorry guys can't do that part' for the other bits. Well you could, but you certainly won't impress anyone.

I disagree on all counts (yes, I disagree that I'm disagreeing simply to disagree; disagree as you will ).

What I said was that the recognizable licks in Metallica's solos tend to be pretty manageable. I'm not saying don't do anything in between, but I doubt that many people will make much of deal out of someone memorizing the memorable bits of a solo and just winging the bits in between them. Hell, it's what Kirk does (badly) nowadays, so it's not even particularly unfaithful to the original material.

That's not to say that you shouldn't learn a difficult solo passage. That's not going to get you anywhere. But if the difference between you feeling comfortable with a song and not is a forgettable sixteenth note run that's over before you really have time to register it, don't count the song out just for a 0.5 second run. Just do something else there and keep working on the more challenging bits when you practice.
#25
A lot of your notes aren't very articulate. You don't seem to have enough pick attack, which is causing your notes to sound very weak. Also there were quite a few notes that you didn't fret all the way (i.e the note sounds dead)

There were a few more issues I had with your playing, but I think they have all been addressed already.

I really like your vibrato though, and the volume swells near the end sounded very good.
#26
Anchoring aint cool, try changing youre technique. I used to pick like you and changing it is hard but not anchoring is a more efficient and less dangerous technique. Watch videos of Paul Gilberts picking technique.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#27
Ok. All of these people are talking about guitar 'tone' That can easily be fixed. What you need to start working on now is the 'tone' under your fingers If you go back and watch the video, every note is pretty much the same volume, there is no 'light and shade'. Also no staccato or tenuto variation. What you need to do is avoid this blandness in your playing and start to 'feel' the song. You may think you are but it takes years and years to develop fully. This is the difference between a player like Malmsteen & Satriani. Satriani pours his soul into every single note. (Especially his later albums).
Although Malmsteen is faster, his playing becomes very boring, very quickly.
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#28
Quote by seeneyj
What you need to start working on now is the 'tone' under your fingers


+1
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that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
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#29
Quote by seeneyj
This is the difference between a player like Malmsteen & Satriani. Satriani pours his soul into every single note. (Especially his later albums).
Although Malmsteen is faster, his playing becomes very boring, very quickly.


Debatable at best.
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#30
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Debatable at best.


Not even. You could substitute a number of people in there, Gilbert, Vai, Petrucci. They are all more interesting to listen to than mindless shred.
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#31
Quote by seeneyj
Not even. You could substitute a number of people in there, Gilbert, Vai, Petrucci. They are all more interesting to listen to than mindless shred.


No, it really is. I would rather listen to Malmsteen than Vai right now unless we're talking about the album "Sex And Religion" in which case I'm more listening for Devin Townsend anyway. For the most part I find Malmsteen's solo work more interesting than 99% of Petrucci's solo stuff as well but not Dream Theater.

You're too general and not factoring in that people have opinions.

Also for the record: the term "mindless shred" is bullshit, there's no such thing that I've come across.
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#32
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
No, it really is. I would rather listen to Malmsteen than Vai right now unless we're talking about the album "Sex And Religion" in which case I'm more listening for Devin Townsend anyway. For the most part I find Malmsteen's solo work more interesting than 99% of Petrucci's solo stuff as well but not Dream Theater.

You're too general and not factoring in that people have opinions.

Also for the record: the term "mindless shred" is bullshit, there's no such thing that I've come across.


*sigh* Threadtime! Ok, Let's see what the majority of people would rather listen to. Semiquavers at 200bpm or A melodic line that makes more musical sense to the ear.

Most of Malmsteen is alternate picking or economy picking with a few bends and hammer-ons put in for good measure.

The previously named guitarists expand beyond this and with other musical techniques to expand the sonic texture.
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#33
Quote by seeneyj
*sigh* Threadtime! Ok, Let's see what the majority of people would rather listen to. Semiquavers at 200bpm or A melodic line that makes more musical sense to the ear.

Most of Malmsteen is alternate picking or economy picking with a few bends and hammer-ons put in for good measure.

The previously named guitarists expand beyond this and with other musical techniques to expand the sonic texture.


You, just like everyone else, are too focussed on the single note as a thing of worth and once you get to a certain speed you're still stuck on it, hearing a series of single notes. What you should be listening for is a line, a stream of harmonic content with contours up and down, a rhythmic start and end point and so on. It's not a stream of single notes.

Quite frankly I don't care what the majority of people would rather listen to, it doesn't matter, when it comes to matters of personal taste like this you can't simply say "this person is better" because that simply isn't true, there is no 'better' or 'worse'; there is only what I like and what you like and sometimes those two are the same thing.

Also the bolded statement describes guitar playing as a whole. That is everything that guitar playing is. In a less patronising way though: if you think that's all there is to Malmsteen you haven't listened to enough of his playing. You've probably heard Far Beyond The Sun and Black Star or watched a few of his videos on youtube and you think you know what he's all about now.
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#34
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
You, just like everyone else, are too focussed on the single note as a thing of worth and once you get to a certain speed you're still stuck on it, hearing a series of single notes. What you should be listening for is a line, a stream of harmonic content with contours up and down, a rhythmic start and end point and so on. It's not a stream of single notes.

Quite frankly I don't care what the majority of people would rather listen to, it doesn't matter, when it comes to matters of personal taste like this you can't simply say "this person is better" because that simply isn't true, there is no 'better' or 'worse'; there is only what I like and what you like and sometimes those two are the same thing.

Also the bolded statement describes guitar playing as a whole. That is everything that guitar playing is. In a less patronising way though: if you think that's all there is to Malmsteen you haven't listened to enough of his playing. You've probably heard Far Beyond The Sun and Black Star or watched a few of his videos on youtube and you think you know what he's all about now.


I know enough Malmsteen to know what he is about. I have his concerto with the orchestra, the G3 vid with Satch and the Far Beyond the Sun album. + plenty of vids on Youtube.

I do understand that people have different musical tastes. I totally get that but I think that you can have one guitar player that is better than another, In much the same way that Shawn Lane was lightyears ahead in his playing than an intermediate player except much harder to call. But that's a different topic.

In terms of melodic line, that's all there is in Malmsteen's playing. There is no changing rhythm aspect. It is all triplets or semiquavers.
In my opinion, even knowing he can shred like a motha****er, he is only half the player in a sense compared to other virtuoso guitarists as he is only making use of melodic variation and not rhythmic variation.
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#35
Quote by seeneyj
I know enough Malmsteen to know what he is about. I have his concerto with the orchestra, the G3 vid with Satch and the Far Beyond the Sun album. + plenty of vids on Youtube.

I do understand that people have different musical tastes. I totally get that but I think that you can have one guitar player that is better than another, In much the same way that Shawn Lane was lightyears ahead in his playing than an intermediate player except much harder to call. But that's a different topic.

In terms of melodic line, that's all there is in Malmsteen's playing. There is no changing rhythm aspect. It is all triplets or semiquavers.
In my opinion, even knowing he can shred like a motha****er, he is only half the player in a sense compared to other virtuoso guitarists as he is only making use of melodic variation and not rhythmic variation.


Then why do you continue to argue this? There is nothing else unless you're talking about pure physical technique or absolute numerical speed. If you try and justify your opinions on anything else with reason then all you're doing is covering up the fact that you don't like one thing or you do like another.

Also when you say "the Far Beyond The Sun album" I assume you mean the album Rising Force, in which case I have to say you should probably re-listen to at least Black Star and actually pay attention to what's going on, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making it out to be.
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#36
Quote by seeneyj
I know enough Malmsteen to know what he is about. I have his concerto with the orchestra, the G3 vid with Satch and the Far Beyond the Sun album. + plenty of vids on Youtube.

I do understand that people have different musical tastes. I totally get that but I think that you can have one guitar player that is better than another, In much the same way that Shawn Lane was lightyears ahead in his playing than an intermediate player except much harder to call. But that's a different topic.

In terms of melodic line, that's all there is in Malmsteen's playing. There is no changing rhythm aspect. It is all triplets or semiquavers.
In my opinion, even knowing he can shred like a motha****er, he is only half the player in a sense compared to other virtuoso guitarists as he is only making use of melodic variation and not rhythmic variation.

You can indeed have one guitarist that's better than another, but the term better is just based on different peoples opinions. For example, look at Rusty Cooley. He can write some really interesting, exotic stuff, but whenever I listen to almost anything he plays, it just sounds like noise to me. I find most of his playing to be nothing more than guitar masturbation. And yet, he is considered by many to be a phenomenal guitarist. I've even heard someone say "He's better than Lane".

People will always have different opinions and tastes for different guitarists and different musical styles.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#37
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Then why do you continue to argue this? There is nothing else unless you're talking about pure physical technique or absolute numerical speed. If you try and justify your opinions on anything else with reason then all you're doing is covering up the fact that you don't like one thing or you do like another.

Also when you say "the Far Beyond The Sun album" I assume you mean the album Rising Force, in which case I have to say you should probably re-listen to at least Black Star and actually pay attention to what's going on, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making it out to be.


Because it is interesting conversation Almost impossible to find elsewhere on this site.

There is much more to guitar playing than pure physical technique or absolute numerical speed. We all know that. Btw, reason and evidence are the basis for justification of all decisions.
If you could hypothetically, take someone's musical ability on the guitar and have it as a fixed, measurable quantity, Petrucci, Vai, Satriani, Gilbert and a few others would come out better. Being based on: technique, musical ideas (This is another one that needs to have the capability of being measured), variation of ideas, dynamics in playing, accenting, clarity of playing, etc.....

I'm sure that we can agree to disagree about Malmsteen's melodic sense.
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#39
Quote by seeneyj

If you could hypothetically, take someone's musical ability on the guitar and have it as a fixed, measurable quantity, Petrucci, Vai, Satriani, Gilbert and a few others would come out better. Being based on: technique, musical ideas (This is another one that needs to have the capability of being measured), variation of ideas, dynamics in playing, accenting, clarity of playing, etc.....


Strangely enough, I remember saying this a day or two ago:
The only thing you can objectively compare about two guitarists is their technical skill. How fast can each play? That is all. Everything subjective about one's playing (style, variation, musical ideas, composition, tone, phrasing, and everything else) is subjective. It's an opinion.
#40
Good attempt dude, but you are way way out of tune. First you must keep the guitar tuned and then play your stuff Otherwise it will sound awful and sick.

Practice it slowly, until you have full control over the lead(may be using a metronome) and then try to gradually build up speed.

All the best mate !
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