#1
What I'm trying to do here is start a discussion and debate about modern metal and how it compares to older metal. I will first try to present an objective evaluation of today's leading metal styles, then my opinion on said styles. Keep in mind this is from an American perspective.

Forty years ago, Black Sabbath's daring musical vision created a new genre of music that was developed through the decades into what is now heavy metal. The genre's growth was encouraged and facilitated through a second wave of hard rocking bands in the late 70's, from Motorhead to Judas Priest to Iron Maiden, just to name a few. It then exploded in the 80's, and since then it has been an unstoppable force.

We are now entering the fifth decade of its existence, and though heavy metal is as large, diverse, and global a genre as ever, much has changed. Metalcore has emerged as the commercially dominant style, alongside other rock and metal styles such as post-hardcore, alternative metal, even emo and pop punk (yes, you have to factor this into the equation because some of today's most popular bands such as A Day to Remember, Black Veil Brides, and Asking Alexandria draw influence from these genres). Some of today's most popular hard rock and metal bands, such as Attack Attack! and the aforementioned AA, even draw influences from electronic music, and this has enabled their music to reach a wider audience.

Overall, the metalcore and post-hardcore bands have succeeded in combining their music with a sort of pop sensibility that has both given them mainstream success among audiences and the billboard charts. A related style, deathcore, has proven itself quite popular, though not as commercially successful, with bands ranging from Suicide Silence to All Shall Perish drawing huge crowds, playing major festivals, and garnering critical praise and accolades. The genre eschews the pop accessibility of their contemporaries.

Alternative metal, which seems to have taken its cue from nu metal and overlaps with modern hard rock, is a vibrant style that sees perhaps more success in all areas than any of the previously mentioned styles, and among the widest audience. This ranges from Korn and Slipknot, who in recent years have continued to have very strong album sales, to Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Trivium, even bands such as Three Days Grace and Breaking Benjamin, all of whom have had excellent album sales in comparison to the other bands mentioned.

In the midst of all this, there are bands like Mastodon who don't fit into many of these categories but have garnered much critical praise. Popular and commercially successful festivals featuring metal bands ranging from Ozzfest, Bamboozle, Warped Tour, Mayhemfest, The Summer Slaughter Tour, etc. each tell different stories regarding today's metal trends. Bamboozle and Warped tour feature most of the popular metalcore and post hardcore outfits, with bands such as ADTR, AA, The Devil Wears Prada and more headlining, and appearing alongside popular hip hop, rock, and pop acts. This relates to the accessibility of the metalcore/post-hardcore styles.

However the somewhat less accessible deathcore outfits also appeared; Bamboozle's 2011 lineup featured deathcore bands such as Born of Osiris, Arsonists Get all the Girls, Veil of Maya, etc. albeit on supporting stages. Ozzfest and Mayhemfest are two hugely popular festivals that cater to the more traditional heavy metal fanbase, with Ozzfest putting older heavy metal bands ranging from Slayer, Motley Crue, etc. alongside alternative metal bands such as Korn. Mayhemfest does a similar thing, but it features much more extreme metal bands from deathcore, progressive metal, and melodic death metal styles, alongside of course crowd drawers such as Godsmack, Megadeth, Disturbed, etc.

So essentially, Bamboozle and Warped are marketed towards a younger, teenage demographic that is interested mainly in pop music but also the more accessible styles of metal and rock, whereas festivals such as Mayhem are marketed towards those who come only to hear heavy metal and nothing more or less. Meanwhile, with all these new bands floating around, older groups such as Metallica and Iron Maiden are topping charts every chance they get and drawing bigger crowds than ever before in their careers; indeed, it seems as though the technological age and the spread of music over the internet has enabled these older bands to reach a wider audience than they could in the 1980s, as they now headline shows all over the world (see for example the movie Flight 666). In much the same way, it has helped the underground metal scene; bands such as Immortal and Dimmu Borgir are still seeing consistent album sales despite never having broken into the mainstream.

-------------

So what's my take on all this? Well in a nutshell, I don't see anyone taking up the gauntlet that was laid down by Metallica or even Pantera.

Black and death metal, progressive, power, etc. will always be cool and you can't take anything away from it. But I don't think that metalcore has gone anywhere good, I personally hate the style from what I have listened to of it and I see very little hope in it. I love screaming vocals and all, but some people just **** it up so badly, or worse put poppy clean vocals in ("The Prophecy" by AA?). Deathcore is a step up, and has the potential to be something artistically relevant, but its a genre quite rampant with its fair share of bad bands.

Alternative metal is nice and all but its only as heavy as the Top 40 and radio stations want it to be. Lets be frank, Disturbed isn't much compared to something like Slayer. Post hardcore to me is the absolute low point, and if you sink lower than that you start mixing in pop punk, electronic, emo, etc. which can only spell out bad news.

I'm not trying to bash these styles or these bands just because I don't like them; that's not why I spent all this time writing this. I just wanna know what you fellow metalheads think; how do today's leading metal bands stack up to their forefathers? -Do you think they have the potential to be as great, to leave a mark? Will we look back on them in ten years for influence?
-Is metalcore just another trend? Will it go away, or get stronger and perhaps better?
-What band will emerge as having really pushed heavy metal further, into new territories?
-Do you go older metal, or newer metal?
-What do you think of the bands I've mentioned? And what new bands do YOU listen to that you think are worth a metalhead's devotion?

I welcome all opinions and am looking for a serious and involved discussion
Last edited by satinsoven at Aug 11, 2011,
#4
@ 1st reply You don't even know how hard I wanna suck your d1ck right now. That is one of my favorite songs, ever. Forget metal.
#6
I REALLY wanna read this but it is just too damn long.
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#7
Yep. Those who understand do.

Quote by denizenz
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#8
Quote by satinsoven
@ 1st reply You don't even know how hard I wanna suck your d1ck right now. That is one of my favorite songs, ever. Forget metal.

Hmm.
Philosophy > Life
#10
More paragraphs plz.

Anyway, I don't think the -core genres are really going anywhere. I'm not a core-hater just for the sake of it, and I actually enjoy some deathcore, but in general its mostly trash.

However, I don't take the attitude that more mainstream or popular "metal" is necessarily bad. True, the purest form of metal will never be popular, but I don't have a problem with bands experimenting with other genres such as pop or electronic. It is tough to pull of though, since metal is so far removed from any other genre.

Thats just my take though. IMO its not "the more metuhl the better." Its more just a combination of the appeal and depth of the music. If a metal song is catchy and, god forbid, sort of poppy or pop-punky, but it has feeling and quality and something unique, then yeah I can dig that. I'll take unpure n00b metal over uber-grim but lame, unoriginal, repetitive metal anyday.

And in general I prefer classic metal, though I'm pretty sick of it...because, ya know. Its old.
Dead soldier! Go now to Valhalla!
Last edited by Gman400 at Aug 11, 2011,
#11
I have another ten page essay on how this caused the housing crisis and the libyan civil war but you know
#12
Quote by Gman400
More paragraphs plz.

Anyway, I don't think the -core genres are really going anywhere. I'm not a core-hater just for the sake of it, and I actually enjoy some deathcore, but in general its mostly trash.

However, I don't take the attitude that more mainstream or popular "metal" is necessarily bad. True, the purest form of metal will never be popular, but I don't have a problem with bands experimenting with other genres such as pop or electronic. It is tough to pull of though, since metal is so far removed from any other genre.

Thats just my take though. IMO its not "the more metuhl the better." Its more just a combination of the appeal and depth of the music. If a metal song is catchy and, god forbid, sort of poppy or pop-punky, but it has feeling and quality and something unique, then yeah I can dig that. I'll take unpure n00b metal over uber-grim but lame, unoriginal, repetitive metal anyday.

And in general I prefer classic metal, though I'm pretty sick of it...because, ya know. Its old.

I wanted to Highlight that 'cause it's the name of a decently known Nu-Metalcore band. xD
#14
Attempting to make the OP readable:

Quote by satinsoven
What I'm trying to do here is start a discussion and debate about modern metal and how it compares to older metal. I will first try to present an objective evaluation of today's leading metal styles, then my opinion on said styles. Keep in mind this is from an American perspective.

Forty years ago, Black Sabbath's daring musical vision created a new genre of music that was developed through the decades into what is now heavy metal. The genre's growth was encouraged and facilitated through a second wave of hard rocking bands in the late 70's, from Motorhead to Judas Priest to Iron Maiden, just to name a few. It then exploded in the 80's, and since then it has been an unstoppable force.

We are now entering the fifth decade of its existence, and though heavy metal is as large, diverse, and global a genre as ever, much has changed. Metalcore has emerged as the commercially dominant style, alongside other rock and metal styles such as post-hardcore, alternative metal, even emo and pop punk (yes, you have to factor this into the equation because some of today's most popular bands such as A Day to Remember, Black Veil Brides, and Asking Alexandria draw influence from these genres). Some of today's most popular hard rock and metal bands, such as Attack Attack! and the aforementioned AA, even draw influences from electronic music, and this has enabled their music to reach a wider audience.

Overall, the metalcore and post-hardcore bands have succeeded in combining their music with a sort of pop sensibility that has both given them mainstream success among audiences and the billboard charts. A related style, deathcore, has proven itself quite popular, though not as commercially successful, with bands ranging from Suicide Silence to All Shall Perish drawing huge crowds, playing major festivals, and garnering critical praise and accolades. The genre eschews the pop accessibility of their contemporaries.

Alternative metal, which seems to have taken its cue from nu metal and overlaps with modern hard rock, is a vibrant style that sees perhaps more success in all areas than any of the previously mentioned styles, and among the widest audience. This ranges from Korn and Slipknot, who in recent years have continued to have very strong album sales, to Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Trivium, even bands such as Three Days Grace and Breaking Benjamin, all of whom have had excellent album sales in comparison to the other bands mentioned.

In the midst of all this, there are bands like Mastodon who don't fit into many of these categories but have garnered much critical praise. Popular and commercially successful festivals featuring metal bands ranging from Ozzfest, Bamboozle, Warped Tour, Mayhemfest, The Summer Slaughter Tour, etc. each tell different stories regarding today's metal trends. Bamboozle and Warped tour feature most of the popular metalcore and post hardcore outfits, with bands such as ADTR, AA, The Devil Wears Prada and more headlining, and appearing alongside popular hip hop, rock, and pop acts. This relates to the accessibility of the metalcore/post-hardcore styles.

However the somewhat less accessible deathcore outfits also appeared; Bamboozle's 2011 lineup featured deathcore bands such as Born of Osiris, Arsonists Get all the Girls, Veil of Maya, etc. albeit on supporting stages. Ozzfest and Mayhemfest are two hugely popular festivals that cater to the more traditional heavy metal fanbase, with Ozzfest putting older heavy metal bands ranging from Slayer, Motley Crue, etc. alongside alternative metal bands such as Korn. Mayhemfest does a similar thing, but it features much more extreme metal bands from deathcore, progressive metal, and melodic death metal styles, alongside of course crowd drawers such as Godsmack, Megadeth, Disturbed, etc.

So essentially, Bamboozle and Warped are marketed towards a younger, teenage demographic that is interested mainly in pop music but also the more accessible styles of metal and rock, whereas festivals such as Mayhem are marketed towards those who come only to hear heavy metal and nothing more or less. Meanwhile, with all these new bands floating around, older groups such as Metallica and Iron Maiden are topping charts every chance they get and drawing bigger crowds than ever before in their careers; indeed, it seems as though the technological age and the spread of music over the internet has enabled these older bands to reach a wider audience than they could in the 1980s, as they now headline shows all over the world (see for example the movie Flight 666). In much the same way, it has helped the underground metal scene; bands such as Immortal and Dimmu Borgir are still seeing consistent album sales despite never having broken into the mainstream.

-------------

So what's my take on all this? Well in a nutshell, I don't see anyone taking up the gauntlet that was laid down by Metallica or even Pantera.

Black and death metal, progressive, power, etc. will always be cool and you can't take anything away from it. But I don't think that metalcore has gone anywhere good, I personally hate the style from what I have listened to of it and I see very little hope in it. I love screaming vocals and all, but some people just **** it up so badly, or worse put poppy clean vocals in ("The Prophecy" by AA?). Deathcore is a step up, and has the potential to be something artistically relevant, but its a genre quite rampant with its fair share of bad bands.

Alternative metal is nice and all but its only as heavy as the Top 40 and radio stations want it to be. Lets be frank, Disturbed isn't much compared to something like Slayer. Post hardcore to me is the absolute low point, and if you sink lower than that you start mixing in pop punk, electronic, emo, etc. which can only spell out bad news.

I'm not trying to bash these styles or these bands just because I don't like them; that's not why I spent all this time writing this. I just wanna know what you fellow metalheads think; how do today's leading metal bands stack up to their forefathers? -Do you think they have the potential to be as great, to leave a mark? Will we look back on them in ten years for influence?
-Is metalcore just another trend? Will it go away, or get stronger and perhaps better?
-What band will emerge as having really pushed heavy metal further, into new territories?
-Do you go older metal, or newer metal?
-What do you think of the bands I've mentioned? And what new bands do YOU listen to that you think are worth a metalhead's devotion?

I welcome all opinions and am looking for a serious and involved discussion

This is what I get out of your post:

1. Waaaaah metalcore/deathcore/alternative metal are bad
2. Where are the bands like Metallica?
3. A bunch of questions

My responses:

1. I would consider metalcore, deathcore, and alternative metal to be almost completely irrelevant to the evolution of metal. First of all, "alternative metal" is never actually metal, so we can throw that out from the start. The same with post-hardcore, which doesn't even have "metal" in the name (although, I'll say that your idea about what post-hardcore is seems to be pretty flawed).

The bad metalcore bands didn't really push any boundaries; it just mixed Gothenburg riffs with breakdowns. The good metalcore bands (Converge, Arkangel, Starkweather, etc.) are mostly closer to hardcore and tend to have many more fans in the hardcore scene than in the metal scene.

Deathcore is in a similar place as the bad metalcore; it doesn't really add anything new. Everything it does was borrowed from other places, and it doesn't reinterpret this influences in any way; it just blends them together.

I'll compare these to djent, which was getting pretty big but whose popularity seems to have tapered off. Djent has a lot of easily identifiable influences, namely Meshuggah and Cynic. However, while its detractors tend to refer to djent bands as "Meshuggah ripoffs," this isn't really all that accurate; djent definitely has its own identifiable sound which is differentiable from its influences. Granted, it's a sound that hasn't progressed very far from its origins and tends to repeat itself a lot (hence why so many of its bands are boring), but it can't really be called a ripoff of anything else.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by "picking up the gauntlet laid down by Metallica," but I can interpret this two ways.

If you can't find bands that are looking back to older sounds and trying to emulate/build off of them, then you must be blissfully unaware of the retro-thrash movement and the old-school death metal revival. The retro-thrash bands tend to emulate older thrash bands, and therefore tend to be really boring. The OSDM revival, meanwhile, tends to do some new things with the influences, and is much better.

If you can't find bands that are pushing boundaries, then look harder. I doubt we'll really see a flat-out new genre of metal show up in the near future, but we'll see evolution within them. Death metal bands doing new things? There's Portal, Deathevokation, and Necros Christos, to name a few. Prog metal? Not many prog metal bands sound like Hammers of Misfortune or Cormorant.

3. I tend to do a mix of new and old, but most of the new metal I listen to is very heavily influenced by the old more so than the new. I'm a big fan of the OSDM revival, and many of the boundary-pushing bands take their primary influence from the older bands and push it in new ways (like Cormorant, and Hammers of Misfortune, and Deathevokation). I haven't really seen any that really break the boundaries, beyond maybe Portal, but I think some of these bands are close.
#15
I love it when kids who "discovered" metal on the internet or through their parents suddenly have the right at feeble attempts at analyzing the culture.

Hey kid, Metallica have and always will be a pretty little princess turd.

Your opinion is poser gay.
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#16
Quote by VampireGoldfish
poser gay


that's all that needs to be said, I think
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Après avoir crevé par accès de furie
Ta replète panse d'helminthes blancs nourrie,
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#17
Quote by VampireGoldfish
I love it when kids who "discovered" metal on the internet or through their parents suddenly have the right at feeble attempts at analyzing the culture.

Hey kid, Metallica have and always will be a pretty little princess turd.

Your opinion is poser gay.


I'm not a fan of hatin, but I'll hate this time. Gotta agree, this is pretty poser gay lol.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#19
Not sure about this "Iommi's Dream" thing - when he was writing Sabbath songs I don't think he was concentrating on where he wanted metal to be in 30 years time.
Up The Boro!
#20
I was going to post, but then I realised my entire page of words was summed up by VG.

I like this new approach of just assuming that whatever is playing on Mayhem Fest or Bamboozle is "the pinacle" of the genre. People ranting and raving about the amount of exposure that these deathcore and metalcore bands are getting and completely ignoring the fact that marketing will always exist in one form of another, and it's just an unfortunate side-effect that certain genres get thrust into the limelight while others (superior or not) get "ignored" by the masses. Then again, anyone who actually gives a fuck about how popular a band is, is listening to music wrong in the first place.
#23
Quote by satinsoven
Deathcore is a step up, and has the potential to be something artistically relevant, but its a genre quite rampant with its fair share of bad bands.


Just like every other genre on earth and if you don't agree then you simply don't listen to enough music.

Quote by saintsoven
-Is metalcore just another trend? Will it go away, or get stronger and perhaps better?


Metalcore has now been around for long enough to be more than just a trend. It is a thing, it isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Quote by saintsoven
-What band will emerge as having really pushed heavy metal further, into new territories?


Last bands I heard that really pushed what I understood as being metal were Deathspell Omega and Portal, or at least they're what stand out in my mind... maybe Ulcerate I guess as well. Aside from that... who cares if metal does or does not continue to change? I just want bands to keep making music I like...

Quote by saintsoven
-What do you think of the bands I've mentioned? And what new bands do YOU listen to that you think are worth a metalhead's devotion?


I think you've conveniently only mentioned the absolute most popular ends of what could be broadly termed 'alternative' music. I think you need to get much more involved in the genre before you have any place to comment. I think you need to shut up, get out and stop being so poser gay. (<3 VampireGoldfish )
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#24
This thread lacks salt, as opposed to the great amount of poser gay present here.
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#25
Modern metal is doing just fine. I'm glad most bands aren't trying to recreate Masters of Reality or Ride the Lightning anymore and I think there are still plenty of great bands that are making their mark on the genre (Mastodon, Opeth, Portal, Cormorant ect.). If anything I'd say there is more experimentation in metal going on now than there was in any past decades. I'm not the biggest fan of the -core subgenres but they have obviously found a significant fanbase so why judge the whole based on a few annoying popular bands.

Basically stop being so poser gay and judgmental about genres I doubt you've given enough of a fair chance
#26
Hahahahah what is going on

Why is everyone saying poser gay
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