Poll: How do you like your fiscal policy?
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View poll results: How do you like your fiscal policy?
Top-Down
8 11%
Bottom-Up
48 65%
lol, I dunno
18 24%
Voters: 74.
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#1
The expiration date may have come and gone, but the tax cuts are here to stay.

As the expiration date rounded the corner in late December; those who wanted to perish the tax cuts according to plan, argued that the government needed the surplus revenue to handle massive budget deficits.

Those in favour of making the Tax Cuts static, argued that because taxes reduce economic growth and stifle entrepreneurship and incentives to work, effectively increasing taxes during a recession was a bad idea.

Among other things, the Bush Tax Cuts lowered the tax rate on ''capital gains" (i.e; profit made from the sale of property or of an investment), lowered the tax rate on "dividend income" (Distribution of earnings to shareholders), and eliminated the phaseout of "personal exemptions" (you're eligible for personal exemptions, say, if you declare that you need the money to support your spouse, child or any dependent other) for the rich.

It comes down to a question of economic philosophy. Bottom-Up, or Top-Down?


EDIT:

"Bottom-Up'', as I understand it, is the idea that the rich should bear the bulk of the tax burden; facilitating programs like public infrastructure, health care, education, etc.

Advocates of "Top-Down" economics believe that high taxes for the rich will deter big business from investing in our communities, therefore costing us jobs in a time of recession.
Last edited by Rising at Aug 12, 2011,
#2
I generally agreed with the Bush tax cuts, but I've never heard of bottom-up or top-down fiscal philosophy, so I don't know which one I am.
#3
bottom-up just sounds like more fun.

i'm joking, of course. i mean, i think if people get used to lowered tax rates, you have to give them a reason to accept it when they're higher. it sounds like the american people are having a rough time as it is, making the tax cuts static is a good idea at this point in time. the government might desperately need the revenue, but it would deter people from wanting to pay their taxes at all, maybe not on a huge scale, but that just leads to a whole other wave of problems
#4
Oh, I think I may have voted the wrong way.

Oppose the tax cuts, anyway. Regressive redistribution of wealth to the richest in society? Massive fiscal irresponsibility? Yup, that there's a GOPolicy.
#5
I vehemently oppose them. We've seen three decades of stagnant wages while the ultra-wealthy have prospered under "Supply Side" tax cuts. Rich tax cuts favor consumption and penalize reinvestment; the capitalists stay happy, but it wreaks havoc on the economy.
#6
I oppose the tax cuts pretty strongly, considering that even if tax cuts on the wealthy expire rates would still be the lowest they've been since the 1930's.

#7
I oppose them simply because they were enacted to get rid of the deficit (not many people remember that). We never enact the tax cuts, we never have the deficit debate and America still has a AAA credit rating, along with less fodder for right-wing extremists. Plus, I personally prefer a progressive tax system. Yeah, it may not be optimal for economic efficiency, but it's better for citizens as a whole (which is usually the sole job of government).

That being said, Republicans were correct that raising taxes in a recession is a terrible idea, especially if you take the view that we're on the wrong side of the Laffer curve. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the roots of trickle-down economics, Wikipedia gives a respectable briefing here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-side_economics

Thankfully, Mitt Romney seems to be warming to the idea that revenue increases are necessary for deficit reduction, which is great since he's the leading contender in the GOP for presidency.

tl;dr Pretty much everything this guy says http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/.
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#8
i think the tax cuts were stupid as hell. if you make a shit ton of money you better be getting taxed more then the middle class. this idea of trickle down economics seems so retarded to me, these people are the richest 1% and lowering their taxes does shit all to create jobs all it does is grow their bank account and increase americas deficit.

lets go back to the "good ol days" when the rich were taxed at 90%, since the republicans love the 50s so much.
Last edited by chud123 at Aug 12, 2011,
#11
Quote by voodoochild23
bottom-up just sounds like more fun.

i'm joking, of course. i mean, i think if people get used to lowered tax rates, you have to give them a reason to accept it when they're higher. it sounds like the american people are having a rough time as it is, making the tax cuts static is a good idea at this point in time. the government might desperately need the revenue, but it would deter people from wanting to pay their taxes at all, maybe not on a huge scale, but that just leads to a whole other wave of problems
Corporations aren't people. The Bush tax cuts only affect corporations, not individuals.

Also, for what it's worth coming from a Brit living in France, I oppose the Bush tax cuts
#14
Quote by jwd724
I oppose them simply because they were enacted to get rid of the deficit (not many people remember that). We never enact the tax cuts, we never have the deficit debate and America still has a AAA credit rating, along with less fodder for right-wing extremists. Plus, I personally prefer a progressive tax system. Yeah, it may not be optimal for economic efficiency, but it's better for citizens as a whole (which is usually the sole job of government).

That being said, Republicans were correct that raising taxes in a recession is a terrible idea, especially if you take the view that we're on the wrong side of the Laffer curve. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the roots of trickle-down economics, Wikipedia gives a respectable briefing here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-side_economics

Thankfully, Mitt Romney seems to be warming to the idea that revenue increases are necessary for deficit reduction, which is great since he's the leading contender in the GOP for presidency.

tl;dr Pretty much everything this guy says http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/.


Except that reaganomics doesn't work in real life.

If the rich have more money, that doesn't mean they're going to create more jobs. They're just going to put more into the banks. By offering social security, Medicare, etc. We are directly helping the lower class, instead of relying on a bullshit formula that just increases the gap between rich and poor.

And no, we don't have a AAA credit rating. It's Aa+.
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Last edited by fearofthemark at Aug 12, 2011,
#15
Quote by psyks
Corporations aren't people.


You're racist against corporations! They struggle so hard to be treated like everyone else but you treat them like they're second class citizens!

How dare you try an make other people pay more taxes just because they were born with lots of money.
#16
Quote by WaterGod
You're racist against corporations! They struggle so hard to be treated like everyone else but you treat them like they're second class citizens!

How dare you try an make other people pay more taxes just because they were born with lots of money.


Would you let your daughter date a corporation? No? That's the kind of bigotry that is destroying America today.
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#17
Quote by gabcd86
Oh, I think I may have voted the wrong way.

Oppose the tax cuts, anyway. Regressive redistribution of wealth to the richest in society? Massive fiscal irresponsibility? Yup, that there's a GOPolicy.



Bro I spent two years in France/ Switzerland and the socialist society blows. when I got of the train in france it was like entering a 3rd world country. I don't want to hear about G.O.P. crap your society produces people that are two smart to understand anything that is being said other then thier own thoughts.....
#18
Quote by fearofthemark
Would you let your daughter date a corporation? No? That's the kind of bigotry that is destroying America today.


dem damn corporations better not be comin' within' 10 feet of my daughter
Last edited by WaterGod at Aug 12, 2011,
#19
Quote by Briyan_15
Bro I spent two years in France/ Switzerland and the socialist society blows. when I got of the train in france it was like entering a 3rd world country. I don't want to hear about G.O.P. crap your society produces people that are two smart to understand anything that is being said other then thier own thoughts.....

Uh oh...
#20
Quote by Briyan_15
Bro I spent two years in France/ Switzerland and the socialist society blows. when I got of the train in france it was like entering a 3rd world country. I don't want to hear about G.O.P. crap your society produces people that are two smart to understand anything that is being said other then thier own thoughts.....


Neither France nor switzerland are socialist countries.

And they also aren't in massive debt like us.
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#21
Quote by Briyan_15
Bro I spent two years in France/ Switzerland and the socialist society blows. when I got of the train in france it was like entering a 3rd world country. I don't want to hear about G.O.P. crap your society produces people that are two smart to understand anything that is being said other then thier own thoughts.....


I'm sorry but me speaky moron.
#23
Quote by WaterGod
dem damn corporations better not be comin' within' 10 feet of my daughter


It breaks my heart when an intelligent person is against dating a corporation. Even if they screw your daughter, and everyone you know, there is zero chance of pregnancy!
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#24
Quote by beadhangingOne
Pretty sure they both owe least 100% or so of their GDP to lenders.


Even if that is true, they're better off than we are.
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#25
Quote by fearofthemark
And no, we don't have a AAA credit rating. It's Aa+.

Only according to S&P, Moody's and Fitch still have a AAA rating for the US the last I have heard.
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#26
Quote by fearofthemark
It breaks my heart when an intelligent person is against dating a corporation. Even if they screw your daughter, and everyone you know, there is zero chance of pregnancy!


100% chance of venereal disease.
#27
Quote by fearofthemark
Even if that is true, they're better off than we are.


Not really. Both their per capita and % of GDP debts are higher than the US. They would be equally ****ed should somebody come asking for their money.
#28
Quote by fearofthemark
Neither France nor switzerland are socialist countries.


No country on the planet is pure socialist. No country on the planet is pure capitalist. We are all mixed economies, once the idiots on fox news can realize this we can stop this socialist Soviet Russia scare tactic bullshit.
#29
Quote by WaterGod
No country on the planet is pure socialist. No country on the planet is pure capitalist. We are all mixed economies, once the idiots on fox news can realize this we can stop this socialist Soviet Russia scare tactic bullshit.


North Korea is a pure socialist workers paradise.
#30
Quote by Draken
North Korea is a pure socialist workers paradise.


North Korea is a cult.
#31
if you don't think they are a S.S. then you have never been there. They aren't in debt because they tax the hell out of every one. I'm just calling ti like it is. Switzerland not as much. I'll give you that. But really man france? Its pretty bad.
#32
Quote by WaterGod
North Korea is a cult.

That's just what the biased Western imperialist media says.
#33
Quote by beadhangingOne
Not really. Both their per capita and % of GDP debts are higher than the US. They would be equally ****ed should somebody come asking for their money.


http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/

Switzerland is far better off than the USA.

It also taxes the rich a lot more than either France or USA.
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#34
Quote by Briyan_15
if you don't think they are a S.S. then you have never been there. They aren't in debt because they tax the hell out of every one. I'm just calling ti like it is. Switzerland not as much. I'll give you that. But really man france? Its pretty bad.


If you think they are socialist, you don't know what socialism is.
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#35
Quote by fearofthemark
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/

Switzerland is far better off than the USA.

It also taxes the rich a lot more than either France or USA.


Wikipedia says otherwise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

But w/e. I think the whole world is ****ed whether one country is ****ed more than another.
#36
Quote by beadhangingOne
Wikipedia says otherwise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

But w/e. I think the whole world is ****ed whether one country is ****ed more than another.


I agree. It will get better eventually though.

I hope
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#37
fearofthemark's page showed public debt figures, beadhangingOne's showed gross debt, that is why they are different.
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#39
Quote by Briyan_15
if you don't think they are a S.S. then you have never been there. They aren't in debt because they tax the hell out of every one. I'm just calling ti like it is. Switzerland not as much. I'll give you that. But really man france? Its pretty bad.

I wasn't aware that the means of production were owned by the workers in those countries.
#40
I oppose them. I know conservatives who thought they were bad legislation.
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