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#1
Given that nearly everyone has a limitation of how much money they can spend on a band, it's safe to say that you can't buy everything you want. I have a lot of albums I would love to purchase. I also have a lot of band t-shirts that I've been looking at & want to buy as well. I've downloaded a share of discographies I would never be able to buy physical copies of anywhere close to where I live (except the internet) & sometimes I feel bad about that, cuz I know it hurts the artist sales & whatnot, but sometimes I just feel like... well, it's at this point already, & it's kind of expected. Many artists feel differently about it too.

My point is that I do download, but I also try to buy physical copies when I can. In the next 10 weeks, I can think of 4 bands that are releasing albums that I want physical copies of. Two shows that will require a whole weekend of driving & keeping fed, buying show merch, etc. And at least half dozen shirts I want to purchase. So I have a lot to consider, but it got me thinking. If you could only afford to buy a bands shirt or their album, what would be the selection that has a more positive impact to the band? Is it more beneficial to buy the album or the shirt?
#2
I imagine there's a lot less people you need to pay in order to make a shirt, and if both the shirt and album were the same price (logically) the band SHOULD receive more money from the shirt (the shirt probably cost less to produce too)

That being said, it's entirely possible that the label/someone else takes a huge chunk of shirt sales, so who knows?

If you were buying it from a show then the band would receive all the money from the shirt or album, though they would have had to buy them for themselves at one point anyway, and if the shirts cost less to buy, then the band will make bigger money selling shirts.

(This is all under the assumption that they are the same price, which it is very likely they aren't)
#3
I'm not sure, I would guess they make more money from shirt sales?
But record sales are kept track of and those numbers mean something important.
So I would say... album sales. (I would prefer to own an album anyway)

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#4
going to shows and buying merch there > buying cds
Cette nuit j'ai rêvé que je mâchais ses yeux
Après avoir crevé par accès de furie
Ta replète panse d'helminthes blancs nourrie,
Trop prompte à déféquer le fruit d'un vit sanieux.
#5
It depends on how much the band spent on the recordings and the shirts.

I know in Cormorant's case, for example, that the shirts sell for about the same price as the album but were much cheaper to print, so the band gets a higher profit out of those. However, MT mod axemanchris's band gets the same profit whether you buy the CD or the shirt. The CD happens to be cheaper.

You could also argue for the added advertisement the band gets through people wearing the shirt, but most people I know don't check out a band because they saw someone in a shirt. It generally only works if you see a bunch of different people wearing the band's shirt, which won't be the case for most local bands. If it's a metal band there's a decent chance the logo is unreadable anyway.

If the band is small enough, try contacting them directly through Facebook or email, and ask them their opinion.

EDIT: If we're dealing with signed bands, then it depends on the record deal. If they didn't sign a 360 deal they definitely get more money from the shirt. If they did, I'd probably say they still get more money from merch.
Last edited by Scourge441 at Aug 13, 2011,
#6
If I have to choose one, I'll buy the shirt/go to the show and then just download the album. I'm pretty sure most artists make a miniscule amount from album sales anyways. I mean, ideally, I'd like to have both all the time but thats just not possible.

I do wish band shirts were cheaper though. It seems like most of them are made out of cheap materials or just have a weird fit (like even in a medium the neck is wayyy to wide. Yes I'm skinny but most of the necks would fit arnie properly). Not to mention they're like 40 bucks at the actual shows and still oddly sized and randomly sized so sometimes the shirts I get in a medium are way to big and some are to small and some fit but then get all warped in the laundry...

/t shirt rant.
Dead soldier! Go now to Valhalla!
#8
Buying a cd from amazon isn't going to do much in terms of supporting a band. It's worth trying to get it from their website or at their show if you want them to actually see the money.
#9
Send them an envelope of cash...
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#10
Quote by ChemicalFire
Send them an envelope of cash...

This.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#11
Quote by illuminatiano
going to shows and buying merch there > buying cds

This. Buying anything directly from the band at a show. Paying the cover to see them and helping them get to the next show two states away. Tipping the merch dudes. Donating what's in your pocket at DIY spaces. Buying them a meal. Buying them beer. Letting them sleep on their floor for the night. All helps them more than buying a CD.
#12
Also, for the female fans: Offer your bodies unto the male members (or female, depending...) backstage. That's a great way to support a band.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#14
Read.

It is MUCH MUCH MUCH more beneficial to a band to buy shirts and go to shows.
Quote by MoogleRancha
It's like Fenriz and J. Read

"I'm so happy to love metal and stuff"

"I AM metal"
#16
Wow, that was ****ing eye opening! Alright, that was awesome. So I guess it really comes down to the contract that was signed & whether or not the label gets a part of merch. So I downloaded Barren Earth's album, but I ordered their shirt online, so I feel much better about that! haha.

You think it's any different for big bands like Megadeth? I know Dave doesn't back illegal downloading, but hey, it was cool for him to stuff records under his jackewt when he was teenager, I fail to see a big difference there. When I was younger, I used to buy CD's a lot more willingly & frequently, but as a rule, I usually only bought used CD's. I wasn't into any majorly underground stuff yet, & I also liked a lot of the 90's rock like AiC, Nirvana in addition to the 80's metal & most of the well-known albums you could find in used bins. I've only ever had say 10-12 bands that are (or were) currently active I lked well enough to buy their new album on or shortly after the album comes out. Since 90% of the albums I ever bought were used copies, it's safe to say that I've never really supported bands through album sales, because buying used cd's = $0 to the band.

All this in consideration, I find that illegal d.loading isn't really doing the band any more harm than buying used copies of their releases, at least on the "individual" terms. I am aware that if everyone follows this model then there's no one to buy new copies, therefore there won't be any used copies. I don't even really know where I'm going with this anymore.... oh wait imagine Stan from South Park & cue the music...

I learned something today... I'm not trying to justify downloading, because it's illegal & can get you in trouble. But if you're forced choose between buying the bands CD & buying their t-shirt, then choose the t-shirt. Because by buying the t-shirt gets the band more money so they can out out their next album for you to enjoy. But by buying their cd, you're supporting the dick holes who stole the bands music in the firstplace. So don't be a dickhole, buy the bands shirt. C'mon Kyle, lets go to my house & listen to Bloodbath.
#17
Well, I don't see Dave Mustaine personally selling you the t-shirt, so in cases of really big bands there's most probably more middle men taking a slice of the cake. But that's just cause they can afford sharing the cake, when the cake's the size of Dave's ego.
#18
When that Cormorant guy says that cds are promotional tools for selling shirts, he really wasn't kidding.

Neuroma regularly gets in bed with distros and sells off cds dirt cheap in bulk just so that more people will buy shirts and hoodies off our big cartel.

Cds are a financial write off, I've got both the new album and the split shared on soulseek and I really don't care how many people download it. The way I look at it is the more people hear the music, regardless of whether they buy it, the more will come to shows/buy shirts off the web etc.
#19
Heavy metal isn't a fashion show. I'd rather spend money on physical copies of an album personally because I find it more fulfilling to listening to a band's music than wearing a new shirt. Also, I think that bands would prefer you to listen to their albums and enjoy the music. Not that shirts are bad or anything, as I have about five or so.
Quote by severed-metal
These don't sound like very good ambitions when driving...Judas Priest makes people want to go 200 mph, and Realm of Chaos is now an album for ramming shit. You are dangerous, dangerous people.

last.fm
Last edited by sg_man08 at Aug 14, 2011,
#20
here fvcking here sg man !!
I would make sure I had physical copies of a bands album/s before I ever buy a shirt .
If not your clearly more worried about making sure other people know you like band X, rather than enjoy band X's material as a complete package the way it was intended. And that my friend is pretty much straight up poser behaviour.
I can understand wanting to make sure the band see as much of the coin you spend on their shit as possible. But if it was my band, I want people to buy the CD, as that's what I poured myself into, not my t-shirts however cool, blasphemous or kvlt they would be !
and i don't think you'd find an artist who'd be pissed and feel unsupported that a fan bought their album and not their t-shirt, the reverse case might not be true though.
Last edited by The Necrotizer at Aug 14, 2011,
#21
Quote by The Necrotizer
here fvcking here sg man !!
I would make sure I had physical copies of a bands album/s before I ever buy a shirt .
If not your clearly more worried about making sure other people know you like band X, rather than enjoy band X's material as a complete package the way it was intended. And that my friend is pretty much straight up poser behaviour.
I can understand wanting to make sure the band see as much of the coin you spend on their shit as possible. But if it was my band, I want people to buy the CD, as that's what I poured myself into, not my t-shirts however cool, blasphemous or kvlt they would be !
and i don't think you'd find an artist who'd be pissed and feel unsupported that a fan bought their album and not their t-shirt, the reverse case might not be true though.

Quote by severed-metal
These don't sound like very good ambitions when driving...Judas Priest makes people want to go 200 mph, and Realm of Chaos is now an album for ramming shit. You are dangerous, dangerous people.

last.fm
#22
Quote by The Necrotizer
here fvcking here sg man !!
I would make sure I had physical copies of a bands album/s before I ever buy a shirt .
If not your clearly more worried about making sure other people know you like band X, rather than enjoy band X's material as a complete package the way it was intended. And that my friend is pretty much straight up poser behaviour.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I'm a poser because I have shirts for bands I don't physically own albums for? Riiiiiight.

Take a band like Kerasphorus. The only copies I can find of either of their releases are vinyl only. I don't have a turntable. Am I poser because I spent my money on a shirt, instead of a physical copy I can't listen to?

Quote by The Necrotizer
I can understand wanting to make sure the band see as much of the coin you spend on their shit as possible. But if it was my band, I want people to buy the CD, as that's what I poured myself into, not my t-shirts however cool, blasphemous or kvlt they would be !
and i don't think you'd find an artist who'd be pissed and feel unsupported that a fan bought their album and not their t-shirt, the reverse case might not be true though

They can listen to your album without buying the CD, though. They can download, either legally or illegally, or they can stream it from Spotify or Grooveshark or something.

If I were in a band, I wouldn't complain if people were buying shirts instead of CDs. If they're enjoying my music and supporting me, I'm happy.
#23
Quote by Scourge441
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I'm a poser because I have shirts for bands I don't physically own albums for? Riiiiiight.

Take a band like Kerasphorus. The only copies I can find of either of their releases are vinyl only. I don't have a turntable. Am I poser because I spent my money on a shirt, instead of a physical copy I can't listen to?


They can listen to your album without buying the CD, though. They can download, either legally or illegally, or they can stream it from Spotify or Grooveshark or something.

If I were in a band, I wouldn't complain if people were buying shirts instead of CDs. If they're enjoying my music and supporting me, I'm happy.



The first point is my own opinion, and you have exaggerated what I was trying to imply a fair bit. I didn't say " if you own a band's t-shirt without owning a release your a poser" period, end of story. Of course if the release isn't available on a viable medium for you there's nothing you can do, sometimes a tee is the best you can get. I mean there's BM out of Russia at the moment that's cassette only release still, and I'm not going to buy a new deck just for a few EP's and demos (That bit goes without saying really, ) I shouldn't have spoken so generally in my first post.
But in my view if you go out and download say darkthrone's (for eg) whole discography and then buy a darkthrone shirt, when you should have just bought a copy of "A Blaze...", your a wanker and possibly a poser, as I can't help question whether you like the music, or the image and the scene more, if the T-shirt is your priority. But then again when I was a teenager, physical release was the only way to get music, so it's a collector / nostalgia thing for me and I'll always get a physical copy if I can.
Plus my stereo > your stereo, so I always want CD audio quality.

The second point is hypothetical personal preference too, so it's kind of defunct to argue it. I wouldn't be angry if people bought shirts instead of CD's, but if a fan asked me what I preferred they bought if they couldn't afford both, the answer would (and should) be CD's first (actually see us live would be first, but again that kind of goes without saying).
Last edited by The Necrotizer at Aug 15, 2011,
#24
What albums you have is'nt a big deal, as long as you make an effort to buy music you like in one way or another.Bands care more about that fact that you enjoy the music than if your sending them cash.
Quote by Steve08
Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

#26
You can wear a T-Shirt and illegally download the album.
You can't illegally download the T-shirt and wear the album/
METAL!
#29
hahaha. Thanks for the introduction Ziggy! That's ok I think I know things too, I just try to keep them to myself most of the time, you should give it a try ultraussie
#30
Il buy a shirt if it looks good, and doesnt have 'beaten, skull fucked and bum raped' on the back, in big print or some such. I try buy stuff from bands directly, or from small distros, rather than through amazon sometimes, that's about it. Of course, it depends on my finances at the time.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


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#31
Quote by Stranglehold
Il buy a shirt if it looks good, and doesnt have 'beaten, skull fucked and bum raped' on the back, in big print or some such.
Heh, that always reminds me of the infamous "EXTREME MUSIC FOR EXTREME MORONS" by everyone's favourite Floridian band.


As for the discussion at hand, I don't see how buzzwords such as "poser" factor into it when the question essentially boils down to "will my favourite band get more of the money I spend on them by buying a piece of merch or one of their albums?"
If I took this cigarette and put it out on you...


...would you love me?
Last edited by we_built_a_tree at Aug 15, 2011,
#32
Quote by we_built_a_tree
Heh, that always reminds me of the infamous "EXTREME MUSIC FOR EXTREME MORONS" by everyone's favourite Floridian band.
Haha, I have that shirt. God, why do I have that shirt?
#33
Zippy hoodies were invented for a reason
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#34
Quote by The Necrotizer
hahaha. Thanks for the introduction Ziggy! That's ok I think I know things too, I just try to keep them to myself most of the time, you should give it a try ultraussie


Wow. And wtf Did I post?


Quote by Ultraussie
You can wear a T-Shirt and illegally download the album.
You can't illegally download the T-shirt and wear the album/


Maybye you should just be alittle bit nicer to people.
Even though this is the internet and I can't see you face to face or even know you, my self essteem is reduced and I feel hurt.
Reported.
METAL!
#35
Call the waaaaaaaambulance bro.

EDIT: I was talking to a member of one of my favourite bands about this at a gig a few months back, and he put it to me like this;

As long as you're making an effort to support the band by going to a gig, buying a CD/tape/record, buying a shirt or a patch, or generally spreading word of their music then it's not really worth the time for the band to get stressed out over it. Internet downloading is inevitable no matter which way you put it and will always be around, is it really worth worrying so much about something that you can't avoid?

He even encouraged me to download the last 7" of theirs that I didn't own if I couldn't find a physical copy because he was pretty sure it was sold out. I did end up getting a copy a few weeks later, though.
Last edited by Ziggy V at Aug 15, 2011,
#36
Quote by we_built_a_tree
As for the discussion at hand, I don't see how buzzwords such as "poser" factor into it when the question essentially boils down to "will my favourite band get more of the money I spend on them by buying a piece of merch or one of their albums?"



Excellent way of putting it. The whole poser thing came along when someone suggested someone would only buy a band tshirt to look cool as opposed to actually liking the band. Anyway, I think this question was partially answered by Arthur von Nagel thru Burning Angel's post on pg 1. Bottom line is that it depends on what the contract details are, & whether or not the band gave it's merch rights away. I've never had or even been presented a record contract & I already knew giving up merch rights is a bad idea. I suspect any band that gives up merch rights is a group of complete ****ing morons, or they're a boy band/pop princess/corporate whatever.

I wonder if it'd be worth the time to compile a list of metal bands, ask them to be part of random survey basically asking them what they as a band prefer and tally the results. I'm nowhere near motivated enough to actually do this, but I'm just entertaining the idea & speculating what the tallied results would be.


Dear (insert band name here),
We as fans want to support your band's growth in the most effective way possible, so's that you can continue to make records & as a result, we can years later either trash talk your efforts, or over emphasize how awesome your music is and/or was. We ask that you review the details of your contract, specifically under the subject of Merchandising Rights & compare them to your music sales column & respond by answering this multiple choice question. Given the situation where one of your fans has a certain amount of money they can spend, wants to have two of your items, but can only afford one, would you rather the fan...

A) Buy the album & go without the shirt
B).Buy the shirt & go without the album
or
C). Buy the shirt & illegally download the album.

We ask that you consider the options. Fan buys album, which most groups see very little profit from, but earns credit w/ the label. Fan buys the shirt, but misses the album, makes the fan more likely to illegally download the album anyway, plus looks like a poser to "true" fans. Fan buys the shirt, most groups make considerable more money, which can help toward ensuring future crappy albums from you, but also doesn't make the label much money, which detriments your future career, ensuring you stay underground & kvlt, which is where we want you. Lol this has seriously gotten out of hand. I made this a bit more ridiculous than I meant it to be, but imagine if you were to take this seriously, I wonder what percentage of bands would choose C over A or B options. Someone who has like every band as a friend on Facebook should take time out of their hectic schedule to do this, then report back to me the results so I can of course take credit for the whole thing.

Oh wait, yeah this thread can be closed too if anyone wants to have it shut down. The thread's purpose has been served... dispose of it
#37
Even though my band is'nt anything big, i would say that for me i really don't care either way. Good music won't make you money, if people want shirts/albums, by buying what you already have just helps you put out more stuff in less time. I would rather peoples lives be enriched by the music, rather than the weight of my wallet, the purchasing factor really is'nt a big deal as long as you are doing something to support music, i still find the concept of a "music lover" not owning any albums to be absurd though.
Quote by Steve08
Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

#38
Whoever said anything about not owning albums? I still own many cd's & will continue to purchase them whenever possible, but like I said in the 1st post, I've got like 5 cd's, 6 shirts, 2 shows which require 18+ hrs of driving round trip all on my palate for the next 10 weeks, so I was really just thinking about that when I asked the question that started the thread.

But that just gave me another idea... Would it be feasible to set up a system that gives you like "points" or some sort of credit within the consumer market? Like say buy 5 albums under the Sony music label & earn a free album from any Sony artist. Or purchase a concert ticket & get 1/2 off merch from the bands webstore for any item in the 6 weeks following the show. Y'know, stupid little gimmicks. Airlines do "frequent flyer miles" so hy should the record industry work out "frequent buyer points?"
#39
I buy from hellsheadbangers all the time and they send me free shit...nothing amazing..but hey.

Also, them and Moribund seem to be having a lot of sales lately.
#40
Quote by guitgrinder
Whoever said anything about not owning albums? I still own many cd's & will continue to purchase them whenever possible, but like I said in the 1st post, I've got like 5 cd's, 6 shirts, 2 shows which require 18+ hrs of driving round trip all on my palate for the next 10 weeks, so I was really just thinking about that when I asked the question that started the thread.

But that just gave me another idea... Would it be feasible to set up a system that gives you like "points" or some sort of credit within the consumer market? Like say buy 5 albums under the Sony music label & earn a free album from any Sony artist. Or purchase a concert ticket & get 1/2 off merch from the bands webstore for any item in the 6 weeks following the show. Y'know, stupid little gimmicks. Airlines do "frequent flyer miles" so hy should the record industry work out "frequent buyer points?"


No one hear, but people i've known irl are like that. I think that's pointless, and puts to much emphasis on the money factor, sending off free stuff once in awhile to customers,or making shipping free on large purchases etc is the way to go.Also, don't buy anything from sony that you can't steal imo.
Quote by Steve08
Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

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