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#1
hey , GG&A i was reading a-lot of your post here and was
thinking that a lot of you prefer either a dsp amp or tube amp
is solid state amps on the way out ?
#2
Solid states arn't on the way out, they have a purpose as an entry level equipment, or as modelling amps; the trade off of many sounds but not as good quality. Ideally you want a tube amp, but they're much more expensive than solid states, plus if someones just started they're not going to be spending oodles of cash on stuff, unless they have a rich daddy.
#3
There are very good solid state amps and i just think it's wrong to say it's not quality sound and for beginners. Take the old Gallien Krueger solid state amps. Used by for example Iron Maiden both in studio and on tour. I used to own a GK Preamp and amp and it's the best sound i've ever had. They were expensive though.
#4
so is a ss modeling amp and a DSP amp the same thing see i was thinking ss amps
with no effect's built in except of course reverb ?

also is a modeling amps speaker FR FR for the wide freq. ranges ?
Last edited by ssob at Aug 13, 2011,
#5
The Roland JC is one of the most revered jazz amps ever made?
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#7
Quote by elvor0
Solid states arn't on the way out, they have a purpose as an entry level equipment, or as modelling amps; the trade off of many sounds but not as good quality. Ideally you want a tube amp, but they're much more expensive than solid states, plus if someones just started they're not going to be spending oodles of cash on stuff, unless they have a rich daddy.


This is a pretty ignorant statement. Roland makes the JC-120 Jazz Chorus or whatever the model number is. It's $1200 2x12 solid state amp. By no means is a solid state amp only meant for beginners, that amp is meant for professional jazz musicians. My school has a much older one, and it sounds pretty much amazing.

I also own a Peavey Bandit 80W 112 Transtube, and it's not a beginner's amp, and it is not a modelling amp. It's not an expensive amp, around $300, but it's probably not a new player's first amp. I bought it because I needed a bigger amp, and I can't yet afford a sizable tube amp.

There's also Raven's RG series.

And this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/isp-technologies-theta-212-400w-2x12-guitar-combo-amp/483008000000000
#8
i think that solid state amps are a bit of a niche. there are good ones out there but other than the roland jazz chorus nobody has really heard of them.

they don't sound anything like tube amps and i think that's the problem with solid states - people expect them to sound "tube-like". that's not gonna happen. i think most people just don't 'get' SS amps tbh...
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#9
tech 21

L6 Vetta

etc...

SS is here to stay, has a place at all levels.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#10
Quote by kutless999
Well, tube amps usually sound better than ss amps but are more expensive. Unless there's some technology that is invented to make ss amps sound as good as tube amps, tube amps are the way to go for sound quality.

These two statements are not true. Plus, you'll open a big can of worms
#11
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
These two statements are not true. Plus, you'll open a big can of worms

that's why i just ignored it - i didn't wanna be the one to open the can
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#12
Deleted, sorry.
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
Amps: Vox AC15C1, Roland Cube 15x, Peavey KB-1
Pedals: Digitech RP355, HD500, Joyo AC-Tone, EHX Soul Food
#13
I think it's just ignorant to say "tubes sound better," it really depends on what you're using the tubes for vs. what you're using the SS for.

I think my Peavey sounds pretty friggin' good for being a $330 amp, and not being tube. Sure, tubes sound a bit warmer and thicker, but the distortion and the overall tone is not super thin or bright. I read about how the Transtube technology works, and it obviously uses transistors. However, there is a pretty massive transistor in the back of these amps.

The coils are causing a tube emulation, which to an extent makes sense, I wouldn't be able to explain it, but from my understanding, the different switches (Vintage, Classic, Warm/Classic, Modern, High Gain), use different amount of coils, causing a different sound.

It sounds different than other solid state amps.
#14
all i have ever had is a tube amp and i cant say i would trade it for anything else
but im sure that all amps have there place .
#15
Quote by r0ckth3d34n
I think my Peavey sounds pretty friggin' good for being a $330 amp, and not being tube. Sure, tubes sound a bit warmer and thicker, but the distortion and the overall tone is not super thin or bright. I read about how the Transtube technology works, and it obviously uses transistors. However, there is a pretty massive transistor in the back of these amps.

peavey transtubes do seem pretty good. my old college had an envoy transtube, it was the best amp they had.

i have an old HH VS-musician that's got a pretty nice sound too - the overdrive circuit generates harmonic overtones that sounds quite similar to tube saturation, and there's very little actual clipping going on. obviously, it's more clinical sounding than tube saturation, but it's pretty convincing and offers quite a thick, warm tone. it just lacks the touch-sensitivity of a real tube amp, tbh. imo the cleans are easily comparable to a roland jazz chorus, too
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#16
Quote by Sledgeman
There are very good solid state amps and i just think it's wrong to say it's not quality sound and for beginners. Take the old Gallien Krueger solid state amps. Used by for example Iron Maiden both in studio and on tour. I used to own a GK Preamp and amp and it's the best sound i've ever had. They were expensive though.


Are these old GK's you are referring to bass amps? As far as i'm aware it is much more common to use solid state bass amps seeing as how there is less desire for power tube breakup.
#17
Quote by ticktockboom
Are these old GK's you are referring to bass amps? As far as i'm aware it is much more common to use solid state bass amps seeing as how there is less desire for power tube breakup.

And more desire for massive wattages and low weight.
#18
When compared to how long tube amps have been around, SS technology is still relatively new. So I don't see how it could be "on its way out" when companies are still tinkering with it and trying to get the most they can out of it.

Also, both amps have their applications. And just because an amp has tubes, doesn't mean it sounds good. There are plenty of tubes amps out there that, when I hear them, I think "Ugh, why would anyone want that?". The same applies to SS amps.

Long story short - there are good sound SS and tube amps and there are bad sounding SS and tube amps.
#19
The Ampeg VH-140C is an AWESOME solid state amp that easily rivals tube amps 3-4 times its price.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#20
Quote by MatrixClaw
The Ampeg VH-140C is an AWESOME solid state amp that easily rivals tube amps 3-4 times its price.


Honestly I'd rather have a VH-140 than a 5150. =/
#21
Most people associate SS amps with those crappy starter amps you get for cheap. SS used to be the huge thing back in the 90's, and I bet you couldn't tell a high quality SS amp from a high quality tube amp without looken at them. My Trace Elliot hybrid amp sounds miles better than my full tube Valveking, and it uses mostly SS technology, and 1 tube in the preamp.

Roland Jazz Chours 120, sounds just as good as a full tube Fender Twin Reverb.

Randall Warhead sounds just as good as any full tube high gain Marshall head.

Finding good SS amps is a bit of a challenge, because popular culture wants tube amps, and not SS, because of a lack of understanding. But there are a few people who still make high quality SS amps that sound like tube amps without using DSP technology. I think DSP technology is a sham and makes people lazy, because they don't have to spend time EQ'ing to get a certain tone anymore, it's just a preset.

SS technology isn't that old, it's been around for 50-60 years, at least since the 50's.
#22
Quote by i_am_metalhead
When compared to how long tube amps have been around, SS technology is still relatively new. So I don't see how it could be "on its way out" when companies are still tinkering with it and trying to get the most they can out of it.

Also, both amps have their applications. And just because an amp has tubes, doesn't mean it sounds good. There are plenty of tubes amps out there that, when I hear them, I think "Ugh, why would anyone want that?". The same applies to SS amps.

Long story short - there are good sound SS and tube amps and there are bad sounding SS and tube amps.

TBH few companies are tryign to make SS sound good. Most companies just use modelling with ss instead it can be done, but no one has the will to do it. After all, something that aint either a modeller or all t00b just doesnt sell due to popular notions.
#23
Quote by ethan_hanus
Most people associate SS amps with those crappy starter amps you get for cheap. SS used to be the huge thing back in the 90's, and I bet you couldn't tell a high quality SS amp from a high quality tube amp without looken at them. My Trace Elliot hybrid amp sounds miles better than my full tube Valveking, and it uses mostly SS technology, and 1 tube in the preamp.

Roland Jazz Chours 120, sounds just as good as a full tube Fender Twin Reverb.

Randall Warhead sounds just as good as any full tube high gain Marshall head.

Finding good SS amps is a bit of a challenge, because popular culture wants tube amps, and not SS, because of a lack of understanding. But there are a few people who still make high quality SS amps that sound like tube amps without using DSP technology. I think DSP technology is a sham and makes people lazy, because they don't have to spend time EQ'ing to get a certain tone anymore, it's just a preset.

SS technology isn't that old, it's been around for 50-60 years, at least since the 50's.

Its obvious youve never owned a DSP. Getting a good tone out of a DSP is a thousand times ahrder than with a tube amp due to having a bazillion more parameters to control.
And only n00bs use factory presets. Oh yeah, you can make your own settings. Didnt know that?

And ignore high gain. It isnt that hard to get an SS amp sound good for squeaky clean or high gain. Its low gain edge of breakup stuff that SS just doesnt do as well as tube.

And a JC-120 sounds nothing like a Twin. Yes, its an awesome amp, but a JC-120 sounds like a JC-120.
#24
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Its obvious youve never owned a DSP. Getting a good tone out of a DSP is a thousand times ahrder than with a tube amp due to having a bazillion more parameters to control.
And only n00bs use factory presets. Oh yeah, you can make your own settings. Didnt know that?

And ignore high gain. It isnt that hard to get an SS amp sound good for squeaky clean or high gain. Its low gain edge of breakup stuff that SS just doesnt do as well as tube.

And a JC-120 sounds nothing like a Twin. Yes, its an awesome amp, but a JC-120 sounds like a JC-120.

that's a bit of a generalisation, although what you're saying otherwise is exactly correct. i haven't come across many solid state amps that can do this kind of thing well, but the HH VS-musician i mentioned earlier certainly can do that sort of thing.

@ethan_hanus: tube amps don't sound like solid state amps and vice versa and shouldn't be directly compared as such. if you're saying "you couldn't tell the difference between a high quality tube amp and a high quality solid state" you're pandering to the idea that solid state amps are supposed to try to be something they are not. and that's the whole reason solid state has an image problem in the first place.

you'll always be able to tell the difference between solid state and tube because they are different things. but being able to hear a difference doesn't make one superior to the other or anything like that.

sure, a roland jazz chorus sounds 'as good' as a fender twin, assuming "good" is something that can be measured, but really that's too much of a subjective thing because they don't sound very much alike at all. ditto randall warhead and any hi-gain marshall. some like the colourful clean sound of a fender twin, some prefer the more transparent sound of the jazz chorus.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#25
Quote by ticktockboom
Are these old GK's you are referring to bass amps? As far as i'm aware it is much more common to use solid state bass amps seeing as how there is less desire for power tube breakup.


I'm referring to GK's guitar amps. The one Maiden used, as well as myself, is a model called 250ml, and the preamp is called CPL2000. If i remember it carrectly, Rush has used them and also Gary Moore.

It's a great 2x50W stereo amp, with stereo delay and chorus.

GK250ML


The preamp with footswitch.


I still have my preamp and footswitch somewhere in storage. Will dig it out and try it out in studio again. Hopefully it still sounds as good as i remember it.
#26
Quote by Blompcube
that's a bit of a generalisation, although what you're saying otherwise is exactly correct. i haven't come across many solid state amps that can do this kind of thing well, but the HH VS-musician i mentioned earlier certainly can do that sort of thing.

@ethan_hanus: tube amps don't sound like solid state amps and vice versa and shouldn't be directly compared as such. if you're saying "you couldn't tell the difference between a high quality tube amp and a high quality solid state" you're pandering to the idea that solid state amps are supposed to try to be something they are not. and that's the whole reason solid state has an image problem in the first place.

you'll always be able to tell the difference between solid state and tube because they are different things. but being able to hear a difference doesn't make one superior to the other or anything like that.

sure, a roland jazz chorus sounds 'as good' as a fender twin, assuming "good" is something that can be measured, but really that's too much of a subjective thing because they don't sound very much alike at all. ditto randall warhead and any hi-gain marshall. some like the colourful clean sound of a fender twin, some prefer the more transparent sound of the jazz chorus.


I was referring to modern SS amps- that amp youre talking about belongs to the 80's and 90's when makers actually tried to make non modeller SS amps sound good.
Like I said, can be done. If people actually try.
#27
Quote by GS LEAD 5
I was referring to modern SS amps- that amp youre talking about belongs to the 80's and 90's when makers actually tried to make non modeller SS amps sound good.
Like I said, can be done. If people actually try.

1976-1981 actually, and i think mine is a '76 model
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#29
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Its obvious youve never owned a DSP. Getting a good tone out of a DSP is a thousand times ahrder than with a tube amp due to having a bazillion more parameters to control.
And only n00bs use factory presets. Oh yeah, you can make your own settings. Didnt know that?

And ignore high gain. It isnt that hard to get an SS amp sound good for squeaky clean or high gain. Its low gain edge of breakup stuff that SS just doesnt do as well as tube.

And a JC-120 sounds nothing like a Twin. Yes, its an awesome amp, but a JC-120 sounds like a JC-120.



I have tinkered with a Vypry before, and I hated that thing, couldn't do anything I wanted it to after hours of tweaking. I yank my Valveking out, and every setting sounded better than the Vypry, it was crazy how bad that amp really sounds.

And the Axe FX, out of everything I've heard from it, full mixes and in person, I personally think it's a rip off, just, doesn't sound....real, it always has that, missing chunk in the frequency range.

And you are right about low gain, that's hard to achieve, if you're going by low gain tube amp standards. Solid State amps don't sound quite the same when you clip the power transistors, which you shouldn't, you have to use preamp overdrive. Now, if you know what you are doing, you can get that preamp overdrive to sound just as good as a overdriven tube amp.

Don't ever tell me that something can't do something, like SS not being able to do low gain, cause I will tinker and tinker until I make it do it. I've gotten a beautiful low gain creamy blues tone out of my Trace Elliot with my TS9, but it is lacking in the high mid a tad, but that' cause of the TS9, if I got a better OD pedal, I could make that SS amp scream low gain.

Yes, the JC-120 sounds nothing like a Fender Twin, my comparison was between tube and SS perfection of cleans, the Twin is the tube perfection of clean, and the JC-120 is the SS perfection of clean. SS cleans are more poppy and more responsive to the pickup. Tube cleans are smoother, less pick attack, and warmer.
#30
You could get some good tone with a Okko Dominator in front of a ZT Club, but then for $800 you could probably get an even better sounding tube amp, like a Tweaker 40.
#31
Quote by ethan_hanus
I have tinkered with a Vypry before, and I hated that thing, couldn't do anything I wanted it to after hours of tweaking. I yank my Valveking out, and every setting sounded better than the Vypry, it was crazy how bad that amp really sounds.

And the Axe FX, out of everything I've heard from it, full mixes and in person, I personally think it's a rip off, just, doesn't sound....real, it always has that, missing chunk in the frequency range.

Really? I would take a Vypyr over a Valveking any day, I really liked that amp. For the price, I don't think you can really get better... but to each their own

I agree on the Axe-FX though. It does sound pretty good, but there's just this weird mid range thing going on in all the models that makes it sound funny to me.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#32
^^^^^AXE-FX is the end all for effects and for price to 2k wow .
#33
Solid State will never go away. It's tube amps which will eventually be phased out. Tube technology is very old technology. With SS amps, all that needs to happen is for the waveforms of tubes to be emulated. It's nearly impossible to do, but I have no doubt that it will be done one day. And when that day comes, tubes will be completely irrelevant.

SS amps can be very good - if anyone takes the time to make them good. It's very similar to video games. Anyone can make an absolutely amazing video game, but no one wants to (or can) spend the time or money to do it, so therefore there really aren't that many great games out there.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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#34
Quote by ssob
^^^^^AXE-FX is the end all for effects and for price to 2k wow .

which version?

I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#35
Quote by ssob
^^^^^AXE-FX is the end all for effects and for price to 2k wow .

Really? It's still not as good as real amps and effects.
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
Amps: Vox AC15C1, Roland Cube 15x, Peavey KB-1
Pedals: Digitech RP355, HD500, Joyo AC-Tone, EHX Soul Food
#36
Quote by Offworld92
Solid State will never go away. It's tube amps which will eventually be phased out. Tube technology is very old technology. With SS amps, all that needs to happen is for the waveforms of tubes to be emulated. It's nearly impossible to do, but I have no doubt that it will be done one day. And when that day comes, tubes will be completely irrelevant.

SS amps can be very good - if anyone takes the time to make them good. It's very similar to video games. Anyone can make an absolutely amazing video game, but no one wants to (or can) spend the time or money to do it, so therefore there really aren't that many great games out there.

true - it's easier and cheaper to just use the old tried and tested technology than it is to spend the time and money on designing and manufacturing a really excellent solid state amp.

however, the waveforms of a tube amp are irregular and unpredictable and that's part of the charm. i don't think the irregularity can really be emulated properly.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#37
Quote by Blompcube
that's a bit of a generalisation, although what you're saying otherwise is exactly correct. i haven't come across many solid state amps that can do this kind of thing well, but the HH VS-musician i mentioned earlier certainly can do that sort of thing.


Quote by GSLead5
And ignore high gain. It isnt that hard to get an SS amp sound good for squeaky clean or high gain. Its low gain edge of breakup stuff that SS just doesnt do as well as tube.


alright, lets start a good-natured discussion. if you have a solid state amp, say like my kustom charger 15 or my acoustic 270R and you hook a distortion pedal/od pedal (like my addrock od) and it gets a great sound... would you, or would you not, consider that a 'good solid state distortion'?

it is techincally nothing but diodes, opamps and transistors as far as the eye can see, but it isn't onboard...

either way, i think they both sound sick distorted with just a little pedal action in the front.

also, here is zappa playing straight into a pignose on the mike douglas show. mind you, the original was a tape cassette so sound quality isn't the best but the transfer onto youtube was pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dXTifyOu3Y
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

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#38
Is it wrong that I think the best SS amps are the modellers? I think the technology that's going into them now is fantastic and they sound great.

The only reason I wouldn't own one is because I have oodles of effects and can use a small valve for practice and then a big boy for gigs because I prefer the dynamics of a tube, therefore don't need one.

But if I was new to effects I'd rather have a modeller than a multi-fx and a tube amp
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#39
^yeah, I'd rather have a modeling amp too if I was new to effects becaus mfx can be more complicated than modeling amps.
Guitars: Fender FSR Standard Strat, Squire Affinity Strat, Epiphone Nighthawk
Amps: Vox AC15C1, Roland Cube 15x, Peavey KB-1
Pedals: Digitech RP355, HD500, Joyo AC-Tone, EHX Soul Food
#40
Quote by gumbilicious
alright, lets start a good-natured discussion. if you have a solid state amp, say like my kustom charger 15 or my acoustic 270R and you hook a distortion pedal/od pedal (like my addrock od) and it gets a great sound... would you, or would you not, consider that a 'good solid state distortion'?

it is techincally nothing but diodes, opamps and transistors as far as the eye can see, but it isn't onboard...

either way, i think they both sound sick distorted with just a little pedal action in the front.

also, here is zappa playing straight into a pignose on the mike douglas show. mind you, the original was a tape cassette so sound quality isn't the best but the transfer onto youtube was pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dXTifyOu3Y

i think you misinterpreted my post a bit. i was disgreeing with the quote i highlighted (which you've also quoted) but agreeing with the rest of the post that i hadn't highlighted

i was specifically referring to amps on their own, too. although the fact that you can often get a better distorted tone out of a pedal than the inbuilt distortion circuit from a solid state really begs the question "wtf is up with that?"
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
Last edited by Blompcube at Aug 13, 2011,
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