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#1
I may get flamed for this, but so be it I must ask:

I play in a metalcore band and I get a very good metal tone out of my ENGL Fireball, but it's not as heavy as I'd like. Most people have referred me to the Peavey 6505+ to resolve this issue and I've noticed most bands we play with use a 6505+, but none of them really have that great of tone. Just a huge amount of gain, but a bad overall tone. I owned a 6505+ combo amp a while ago, but it was before I got into the heavier music. I bought it because it was a good deal on an amp that people seemed to like.

But anyway, can it really sound good for leads and such AND have a good metalcore tone? Rather than the all gain, no good sound I usually hear from them?
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#3
Sure, though I'd recommend the 5150 or 6505 (same amps) over the II/+. It's more aggressive, tighter and clearer. The 6505+ is a better lead amp, and has significantly better cleans, however, but the original is the meanest.

Though... I have a hard time believing the Fireball can't get as heavy as one.
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#4
It can sound just fine. There's more to it than just high gain. Play with the EQ and you'll find plenty of good tones.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#5
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Youre EQing it wrong.


This. The 5150/6505 series are definitively amps that you have to fool around with to get a good tone. I'ts not just like, say a JCM 800 where you plug in and you have "that sound" you have to mess with it a bit.
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#6
Quote by stonyman65
This. The 5150/6505 series are definitively amps that you have to fool around with to get a good tone. I'ts not just like, say a JCM 800 where you plug in and you have "that sound" you have to mess with it a bit.

He's got a fireball


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSHCAkuXZQw

The fireball should me more or less similar. And if you dont find this heavy enough, you have ears of titanium.
#7
Quote by stonyman65
This. The 5150/6505 series are definitively amps that you have to fool around with to get a good tone.

Not really. I could put all the controls on my 5150 at 12 o'clock and it'd sound about 80% of the way there

Besides, I think GS was talking about the Fireball? Maybe not, I dunno

Quote by GS LEAD 5
He's got a fireball


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSHCAkuXZQw

The fireball should me more or less similar. And if you dont find this heavy enough, you have ears of titanium.

Sounds hollow... but still super heavy either way
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I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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Last edited by MatrixClaw at Aug 16, 2011,
#8
Quote by MatrixClaw
Not really. I could put all the controls on my 5150 at 12 o'clock and it'd sound about 80% of the way there

Besides, I think GS was talking about the Fireball? Maybe not, I dunno


Sounds hollow... but still super heavy either way

I have to agree, the 6505s sound just fine "out of the box" with no direct tone searching, if you get what I'm saying.

I literally went to Daddys at the end of last year and had the guy unbox a 6505+ combo for me, and right out of the box (everything at 12 besides volume) it sounded spectacular. With some simple EQing, it sounds even better.

The head unit is even better. (I realize how stupid I sound saying "even better" twice )
Last edited by TheAbsentOne at Aug 16, 2011,
#9
Quote by MatrixClaw
Not really. I could put all the controls on my 5150 at 12 o'clock and it'd sound about 80% of the way there

Besides, I think GS was talking about the Fireball? Maybe not, I dunno


Sounds hollow... but still super heavy either way


This?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LH4a6BLrx4&feature=relmfu
#10
Quote by GS LEAD 5

I like that a lot more.

I really want to get my hands on a Mr. Hector. Still kicking myself for not buying one a few years back for $700
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#11
I don't own the 6505+ yet so I don't need the EQing tips, but thanks for the advice. I'm just asking because the ones I hear when I see these groups perform have horrible tone, so I'm safe in assuming that's because they don't EQ it well? which I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case judging by the skill level of most these people I see.

Also, don't get me wrong about the Fireball. I stand by it being a great metal amp any day, but when pushed in a gigging environment, it really doesn't sound much thicker than when I use it at practice (For metalcore). At high volumes, it sounds better for leads, but doesn't have a lot of balls for riffing like the 6505+ does. My Fireball's just not a modern hardcore amp to my ears. And I plan on keeping it as I have come to love its sound, but I'd prefer something with some more chunk to it for my performances.
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#12
Quote by MatrixClaw
I like that a lot more.

I really want to get my hands on a Mr. Hector. Still kicking myself for not buying one a few years back for $700


I find it difficult to believe you of all people passed it up x.x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MPslfXqFa4&feature=related

Riffing is so fack cool in this......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrAtQPoipeI&feature=related



Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Aug 16, 2011,
#14
Quote by GS LEAD 5
I find it difficult to believe you of all people passed it up x.x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MPslfXqFa4&feature=related

Riffing is so fack cool in this......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrAtQPoipeI&feature=related




It was back when they first came out, they weren't even available in the US yet, so I wasn't sure what they'd be worth. I also didn't have a ton of money to be spending, so dropping $700 on an amp I wasn't sure I could make the money back on later if I didn't like it, seemed kinda risky. This was back when I still had my Mark IV if I remember correctly (possibly even when I had my 5150 combo), which was one of my first tube amps. Now I see them selling for like $1k+. Sad day

Yeah, I really dig the Blackmore and Savage. I've just yet to hear a clip of the Fireball/Powerball that didn't sound hollow to me. Almost has the Axe-FX thing going on, weird midrange.

The Stein sounds interesting. I could definitely seem Dime using that tone. I don't really dig it... but the Plus version is a huge step up IMO.
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I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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Last edited by MatrixClaw at Aug 16, 2011,
#15
LOL, OLa can make anything sound good. If you have doubts about an amps potential, go to his youtube and see if he has a demo for it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/fearedse#g/u

People getting shitty tone from a 6505 probably have gain at 10, mid at 1 and assume it's the brootz. LOL.
#16
Quote by stonyman65
This. The 5150/6505 series are definitively amps that you have to fool around with to get a good tone. I'ts not just like, say a JCM 800 where you plug in and you have "that sound" you have to mess with it a bit.


lol so wrong, EQ all on 5-7, res and pres to taste
#17
Try turning the mids up on the Fireball, if you have them low. Ballsiness, in a lot of amps, has to do with an aggressive mid range. The 'pissed-off' sound that you get from a lot of Marshally type amps is because of mids.
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#18
You may want to invest in an EQ and/or OD first. Go to the store and try them with your amp if possible. I've never tried a Fireball, but it seems like a good sounding amp. An EQ in the effects loop can make a huge difference.
#19
If you like your fireball for leads, and want to keep it anyway, how about buying a 6505 and A/Bing them or something?
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#20
Quote by Shredx
If you like your fireball for leads, and want to keep it anyway, how about buying a 6505 and A/Bing them or something?


That's what I'm thinking. I just wanted to know if they're capable of good tone, not just huge gain.

And I tried adding some mids, but it doesn't sound as good for the metal sound I'm wanting to my ears.
Ibanez SAS32EX
Caparison TAT II
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BOSS GT-10
ENGL Fireball 60
ENGL Pro Greenback 4x12

#21
Maybe try a different cab?

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#23
Are they/were you using the combo? Cause the 112 combo sucks compared to the real things.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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#24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWer6vLy_i4

Maybe try the Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier.
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#25
Quote by D_M_I
LOL, OLa can make anything sound good. If you have doubts about an amps potential, go to his youtube and see if he has a demo for it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/fearedse#g/u

People getting shitty tone from a 6505 probably have gain at 10, mid at 1 and assume it's the brootz. LOL.

Meh. TBH, I don't really like most of Ola's mixes.
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I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#26
Quote by Offworld92
Are they/were you using the combo? Cause the 112 combo sucks compared to the real things.

why, whats wrong with the combos provided speaker is replaced?
#27
It's just cheap. Cheap build quality, cheap components. You hear a lot about people having problems with them. You never hear of anyone having problems with the 2x12 combos or the heads.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

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#28
although Ola's videos are great demo's of the amps, u have to remember its hard to compare because all the ones with songs in the background are studio produced through software and has been "refined" look for his "Raw" videos
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#29
Quote by EspTro
although Ola's videos are great demo's of the amps, u have to remember its hard to compare because all the ones with songs in the background are studio produced through software and has been "refined" look for his "Raw" videos

Well, his guitar tones are fairly raw when he does record them, but you also have to remember that his recordings include bass, which is where the real meat of the guitar tone lies.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#30
Quote by MatrixClaw
Well, his guitar tones are fairly raw when he does record them, but you also have to remember that his recordings include bass, which is where the real meat of the guitar tone lies.


+1
A tone that sounds shit on its own can suddenly come to life when mixed with blast beats and bass.
#31
being that you are playing metalcore, than you're probably EQing metalcore, turn up your mids and then you should notice a thicker ballsy tone
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#32
also 1 more thing to note.....the 6505 isnt the only metal amp out there. keep your options open man. still wondering how your Engl is doing it for you >_>
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#33
Quote by D_M_I
LOL, OLa can make anything sound good. If you have doubts about an amps potential, go to his youtube and see if he has a demo for it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/fearedse#g/u

People getting shitty tone from a 6505 probably have gain at 10, mid at 1 and assume it's the brootz. LOL.


+1

on both notes
#35
Quote by MatrixClaw

The Stein sounds interesting. I could definitely seem Dime using that tone. I don't really dig it... but the Plus version is a huge step up IMO.


i traded my krankenstein + for a 6505+. there is no comparision! i am a peavey convert!
#36
Quote by kgndapowerof3
i traded my krankenstein + for a 6505+. there is no comparision! i am a peavey convert!



I could definitely see most people liking the 6505+ better. The Krankenstein is definitely an acquired taste; I really like the Revolution series though, and the Chadwick is a great sounding JCM 800 clone with a phenomenal clean channel.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#37
Quote by D_M_I


People getting shitty tone from a 6505 probably have gain at 10, mid at 1 and assume it's the brootz. LOL.


I see this type of post all the time and I'm a little perplexed. I have a 6505+ combo, and while I definitely don't run the gain at "10," I find that it sounds best to me when the mids are dialed back quite a bit. If I put the mid above 2 it just starts to make this "honky" sound...I don't know, it's hard to describe. I've even tried setting everything back at 5-7 and it sounded okay - but then when I dialed the mids back it went back to the "oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about" sound I like - the traditional scooped-mid eq profile.

Maybe what sounds good on its own doesn't sound as good with a whole band backing you up??? I can definitely tell that with more mids you get a more cutting lead tone, but Idk. Am I crazy?
#38
Quote by KailM
Maybe what sounds good on its own doesn't sound as good with a whole band backing you up??? I can definitely tell that with more mids you get a more cutting lead tone, but Idk. Am I crazy?

You're not crazy, you're exactly right. Scooped mids can sound great for metal by yourself, but in a mix it gets lost. Mids are where guitar gets to 'hang out' in a mix. Drums covers the highs with cymbals and snare and the lows with the toms and kick drum, bass obviously takes the low end as well... The only area left that guitar can dominate is mids.
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#39
Quote by tubetime86
You're not crazy, you're exactly right. Scooped mids can sound great for metal by yourself, but in a mix it gets lost. Mids are where guitar gets to 'hang out' in a mix. Drums covers the highs with cymbals and snare and the lows with the toms and kick drum, bass obviously takes the low end as well... The only area left that guitar can dominate is mids.

Even when you have the mids very low on the 5150, it still has quite a bit (less on the 6505+, though due to its smoother nature). Personally, I keep mine at ~4, but I know some guys that run theirs almost completely off and the amp still cuts through quite nicely.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#40
most every time I've played a 6505(+) head and combos I'm pretty sure the EQ's are at noon and it sounds killer to me - but then again I don't have them cranked like I would at home.

but yeah, lots of people us way more preamp gain then they really need.
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