#1
How many of you guys can pull out a tune like Oleo and run continuous 8th notes through it, playing 4 note groups over each chord?

I would say I am about 70% of the way to being able to do this, but sometimes I'll completely miss a chord change and play something the sounds absolutely retarded. In general, I can get my chord tones fairly well, so even if I'm not playing melodically I can at this point play the "right" notes most of the time.

So, how well can you do this, and what advice can you give to people still learning how to do it?
I couldn't think of a thing that I hope tomorrow brings
Last edited by thegloaming at Aug 17, 2011,
#2
I am nowhere near doing this, but it is something I am very interested in learning. I've studied mostly rhythm when it comes to jazz (playing and understanding the changes and how they work), but when it comes to lead stuff like that I can never keep up.
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#3
That's pretty much what I work on every day, but no, I can't, especially consdering those rhytmh changes tunes tend to go at >200bpm. Fluently going through arps, with maybe half a bar of dim7 here and there gives me major headache :X. It helps being familiar with the specific tune though.
#4
Nowhere near it. I can bluff some "jazzy" stuff over rock changes but I can't do real straight 8ths over bop. The advice I've had from really good bop players is to get the CAGED system absolutely down, so you can play over the changes moving to the most accessible form of each arpeggio rather than jumping to a new position for each chord. This'll also help your voice leading and comping.
#5
Quote by Freepower
Nowhere near it. I can bluff some "jazzy" stuff over rock changes but I can't do real straight 8ths over bop. The advice I've had from really good bop players is to get the CAGED system absolutely down, so you can play over the changes moving to the most accessible form of each arpeggio rather than jumping to a new position for each chord. This'll also help your voice leading and comping.

See this is what's confusing, I know the caged system really well...the problem is that I always practice my arpeggio shapes up and down, so I know them starting from the top or bottom string. When I use arpeggio shapes while freely improvising over changes, I have to be able to start an arpeggio on any note, which is where I find myself stumbling sometimes.
I couldn't think of a thing that I hope tomorrow brings
#6
Exactly, you don't know the CAGED system really well.

Try this - start at a nice medium tempo with two chords. Two, easy chords.

Play through the chord tones in straight quarter notes and always move to the nearest chord tone when the chord changes. eg

Am7 - E7

     Q    Q    Q    Q       Q    Q    Q    Q       Q    Q    Q    Q     
E||----------------------|----------------------|------------8----5----|
B||----------------------|----------------------|-------8--------------|
G||----------------------|------------7----9----|--9-------------------|
D||-----------------5----|--6----9--------------|----------------------|
A||------------7---------|----------------------|----------------------|
E||--5----8--------------|----------------------|----------------------|


  Q    Q    Q    Q       Q    Q    Q    Q       Q    Q    Q    Q       Q      
--4-------------------|----------------------|----------------------|-------||
-------5--------------|----------------------|----------------------|-------||
------------7----4----|--5-------------------|----------------------|-------||
----------------------|-------7----5---------|----------------------|-------||
----------------------|-----------------7----|--5-------------------|-------||
----------------------|----------------------|-------7----4----0----|--5----||


So you can see I'm connecting the E shape of the Am7, then A shape E7, then D shape Am7, then C shape E7, then E shape Am7, then C shape E7.

If that confused you at all break your 2 chords into the two closest shapes in one position and improvise around them. In this case I'd start with E shape Am -> C shape E7.

Obviously then you'd try and keep connecting up all the various positions all over the neck, and then keep adding chords. Running ii-Vs though all the keys would probably be a really good idea if you were an actual jazz player and not a furious bluffer like me.
#7
i can do it semi comfortably depending on the tune (oleo is doable, giant steps is not)
if you want to figure it out, theres a few things to work on--the first is hearing the root progression and guide tones (notes you want to target), the second is understanding the fully extended 13 chord you can build on any chord 3 or 4 note chord (chord/scale), then understanding how to use chromatism for harmonic rhythm (using chromatic notes when neccesary to keep chord tones on the on-beats) and finally, practicing running eitht notes through tunes (preferably just with a metronome, so you can really make yourself hear the changes)--start slow--most metronomes go down to 40 and make sure your hitting the changes, and that your timing and tone don't suffer just because your focusing on note choice--i started doing this on Have You Met Mrs Jones (which is a good tune if your already a decent improviser--the A section is really easy and you can add in a lot of subsitutions, but B section will make you sweat a bit--if it seems to hard maybe work on Fly me To the Moon, or All The things you are, something with fairly easy major-key harmony). if whole tunes are too hard, maybe just start with a progression like this:
dm7 G7b9, C7, A7b9
and
Dm7 DbM7, C, A7b9
and transpose to all major and minor keys.
all the best.
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