#1
So, recently I've been getting into progressive and more math based metal/rock, and I understand signatures in 1, 2, 4, and 8. I just need some help with stuff in 16 and 32. Any tips/explanations?
you're a stone fox
#2
Get guitarpro and start composing some riffs and experimenting with the time signatures, creating stuff with that program really helped me understand rhythms and subdivisions and timesignatures and all that jazz
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Aug 17, 2011,
#3
Quote by Hydra150
Get guitarpro and start composing some riffs and experimenting with the time signatures, creating stuff with that program really helped me understand rhythms and subdivisions and timesignatures and all that jazz


That's what I'm doing, I'm trying to compose a Periphery-esque metal song, and I'm trying to write a measure in 9/16.
you're a stone fox
#4
Well do you have any specific questions?

When I first tried to compose a riff in 7/8 or something like that my guitar teacher told me to write it in 4/4 and then drop half a beat. Im not really into "math based metal", I got into messing with the time signatures by listening to a lot of Dave Brubeck (download Time Out and Time Further Out, do it) and some John Petrucci stuff.

Ill post some stuff ive composed in guitarpro which has some weird time signatures. One is a sort of latin jazz arrangement of the tune Take 5 that I made after listening to 'Spain' By Chick Corea. The other is a kinda prog type tune that also has a quote from Dave Brubeck.
Attachments:
Latin.gp5
Dark Night.gp5
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Aug 17, 2011,
#5
The top number in the signature tells the number of beats in a measure, and the bottom tells the duration of the beat. For example, every measure in 9/16 time has 9 sixteenth notes. Alternatively, 13/32 has 13 thirty-second notes per measure. The fractions can be improper, so you could also have 15/8, which would be 15 eighth notes per measure. Also, you should also simplify time signatures, so a signature of 16/16 would mean 16 sixteenth notes per measure, but you can simplify to 8/8, then to 4/4. you could of course simplify past that all the way to 1/1 (one whole note per measure) but that is not conventionally done. It should be noted that changing the denominator of the time signature changes the duration of the notes. For example, an eighth note in 4/4 time lasts for one half of a beat (since the quarter note gets the beat), but an eighth note in 4/8 time lasts for the entire beat.
#6
Quote by Hydra150
Well do you have any specific questions?

When I first tried to compose a riff in 7/8 or something like that my guitar teacher told me to write it in 4/4 and then drop half a beat. Im not really into "math based metal", I got into messing with the time signatures by listening to a lot of Dave Brubeck (download Time Out and Time Further Out, do it) and some John Petrucci stuff. Ill post some stuff ive composed in guitarpro which has some weird time signatures.


I don't really have a specific question, just looking for some tips. I'll get those albums, and the GP files will probably help. I have GP6 so whatever file is okay.
you're a stone fox
#7
What exactly are you asking for?

I think you'll find that with such time signatures, especially those that are over 16, that it's almost ways felt as broken up into smaller groups. When I was a drummer I remember coming up with a beat and when I wrote it out on staff paper it ended up being in 21/16 time, but it really was felt as subdivided into two groups of 6's a group of 5.
#8
I added the attatchments to my previous post btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc34Uj8wlmE one two one two one two one two three one two one two one two one two three one two one two one two one two three one two three one two three one two three Ahh I love this stuff! That ones in 9/8, inspired by turkish folk music.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Aug 17, 2011,
#10
I don't listen to too much djent stuff but I have a feeling that a lot of it is just in 4/4. The drums do some typical 4/4 thing while the guitars might play something that doesn't really go within the bars if you know what I mean. For example there could be a riff that lasts for 7 beats and it would always start on a different beat. Meshuggah does plenty of this.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#11
Quote by Flibo
I don't listen to too much djent stuff but I have a feeling that a lot of it is just in 4/4. The drums do some typical 4/4 thing while the guitars might play something that doesn't really go within the bars if you know what I mean. For example there could be a riff that lasts for 7 beats and it would always start on a different beat. Meshuggah does plenty of this.


yeah, this. meshuggah/periphery both are in (for the most part) 4/4, then they **** around in the 1/16th notes to make it sound polyrhythmic.
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#12
So.... I think your having trouble reading the time donate? If I'm wrong, disregard this post.

So, in 4/4 time we get four beats per bar, and the quarter note recieves the beat. But how do we know.

4 = beats in bar
-
4 = note type receiving beat
With that in mind, in 9/16 you would have nine beats per bar, with the sixteenth note receiving the beat.

As for tips, I used 9/8 once to extend on a section 7/8.

And for reference, there is a series of lessons on here called Art rock, and one of them explains odd time pretty well.
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Quote by liampje
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#13
Sting's solo work has included a fair number of songs in weird time signatures. "Love is Stronger than Justice" (in 7) and "I Hung My Head" (9) and "Seven Days" (5).
#14
Quote by vampirelazarus
[...]

With that in mind, in 9/16 you would have nine beats per bar, with the sixteenth note receiving the beat.

[...]

No you wouldn't. 9/16 has three beats which are on the dotted quaver.
#15
The best thing I can suggest to you is to have a strong, defined beat. Just dropping a note off can work, but I find it often doesn't sound as good as it could be. It often sounds better if you drop a beat or add one. Take for example, this riff of mine in 13/16|4/4 in a drop tuning:



Look at how the notes are grouped. The beats are grouped like this:

4, 3, 3, 3 | 4, 3, 3, 3, 3

What's important is that it flows. You could group a 13/16 bar into 4, 3, 3, 3 and just play that and, although it might sound a bit odd, it flows because you have a very strong pulse using 2s and 3s. It also sounds alright when you switch it to 4/4, and you add a beat at the end, another 3. The strong pulse is maintained, despite switching time signatures and it sounds pretty cohesive.

That's what I've learned, at least. Maybe it'll help you. It's all about the rhythm...
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#16
Great stuff guys You can look into konnokol, an Indian way of dividing, subdividing beats using syllables. You will fly with odd time signatures
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#17
Also, you should also simplify time signatures, so a signature of 16/16 would mean 16 sixteenth notes per measure, but you can simplify to 8/8, then to 4/4.

Time sigs =/= fractions.

A measure of 16/16 would have different strong and weak beats than a measure of 4/4, although it would last the same amount of time.

For example, a possible grouping would be 3,3,3,4.
#18
Out of curiosity, I've seen songs that use 16th measures, but do you guys have any examples of 32nd measures? I don't think I've ever seen one xD
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#21
Quote by Freepower
Time sigs =/= fractions.

A measure of 16/16 would have different strong and weak beats than a measure of 4/4, although it would last the same amount of time.

For example, a possible grouping would be 3,3,3,4.


This is true for all possible meters, but the rule is consistently broken for 4/4. 4/4 is often subdivided in a Latin rhythm in groups of 3, 3 and 2; while technically it should be written as 8/8, it is consistently arranged in 4/4.
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