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#41
Quote by fail
That's the idea.


Don't have children = don't live your own life?

Don't have children advocates annihilation of our species. What part of that do you fail fail to comprehend.
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#43
Quote by Jackal58
Don't have children advocates annihilation of our species. What part of that do you fail fail to comprehend.


Yeah, that's one intention with antinatalism. But it doesn't follow that you would want to kill those who are already alive. Only to prevent further life from beginning. IIRC in that video I posted the guy said why not let us be the last generation to die out.
Quote by Ian_the_fox
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#44
Quote by fail
Yeah, that's one intention with antinatalism. But it doesn't follow that you would want to kill those who are already alive. Only to prevent further life from beginning. IIRC in that video I posted the guy said why not let us be the last generation to die out.

I have no desire to kill anybody. I'm merely pointing out that if you adhere to this philosophy and you're still alive you're a hypocrite.
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#45
Quote by Jackal58
I have no desire to kill anybody. I'm merely pointing out that if you adhere to this philosophy and you're still alive you're a hypocrite.


For the record I don't adhere to it. But I fail to see how it's hypocritical. It's not an advocation of suicide.
Quote by Ian_the_fox
You're not girly enough of a boy for me, and you're not man enough to take the top. So like, sorry bitch but you ain't mine! Sorry.
#46
Quote by fail
For the record I don't adhere to it. But I fail to see how it's hypocritical. It's not an advocation of suicide.

Yes it is.
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#47
Quote by Jackal58
Yes it is.


Does not compute.
Quote by Ian_the_fox
You're not girly enough of a boy for me, and you're not man enough to take the top. So like, sorry bitch but you ain't mine! Sorry.
#48
Assuming birth is automatically negative is stupid, not that we couldn't use a little restraint in adding another billion humans on this planet though. It'd be nice if we stopped breeding for awhile.
Quote by Jackal58
I have no desire to kill anybody. I'm merely pointing out that if you adhere to this philosophy and you're still alive you're a hypocrite.

I think technically it is calling for just not making any more humans, not ending those already here. It doesn't seem far off that though.
In my heart I'm with you

every night
Last edited by palm mute at Aug 20, 2011,
#49
Quote by 23dannybhoy23
Bill Hicks basically believed this. Or claimed to.


No, Bill Hicks just hated everybody.
#50
Lol @ humans always over-thinking.

The only thing every organism can do is make more of itself. It doesn't really matter that this exists though, we could use a hit on population growth. In the end we'll run out of resources or the sun will swallow us or Jesus will come from the sky killing on the non-believers. But hey! Hopefully I'll be dead and my future offspring will have to.... .

Thanks for making me feel like an asshole.
#51
Just because this guy is depressed because his life sucks doesn't everyone feels like that. I for one, actually like being alive. Guess I wouldn't make a philosopher. ****ing retard
___

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#52
I agree with not having children.

I don't trust what humanity has become, and what I think it will become in the future, therefore I wish to put a dead end to my reproduction - that doesn't mean that I'm a hypocrite for enjoying the life that was instilled in me by my parents who obviously didn't hold the same views when they had me.

There's no point in suicide, it isn't about quickly getting off the face of the planet, but I'm a fairly convinced advocate of the 'Let the Earth fall silent behind you' movement.
#53
I agree to the extent that if no-one was born, there wouldn't be any stupid cunts left to think this sort of inane bullshit up.
#54
Quote by Jackal58
Yes it is.


I agree with Jackal. The only reason you'd have for advocating such a philosophy is if you believed that human life was a bad thing given that the purpose of not creating any more human life is to bring on human extinction. If you believe human life is a bad thing and you're still alive then you're a hypocrite.
#55
I agree.

Quote by Jackal58
If you adhere to this philosophy kill yourself. Or else live with the hypocrisy.

I agree. Unfortunately rationally believing you should die does not make it much easier to do so.

Quote by fail
Don't have children = don't live your own life?

Because the idea is sort of that non-existence is preferable to existence if we're talking about minimising suffering, so you should include yourself in that. You would be better off for not existing, so why not bring that on a little sooner?


Quote by WCPhils
Just because this guy is depressed because his life sucks doesn't everyone feels like that. I for one, actually like being alive. Guess I wouldn't make a philosopher. ****ing retard

Regardless of how many pleasures you get in life though, there will always be struggles or displeasures. Pleasures don't cancel out displeasures, they just pile on top.
Life is sort of just a constant struggle to live, so why not not live and cut the struggle out? You won't notice not having been born as... well you'll never have existed.
#56
I agree that having children is an entirely selfish act. I don't know if I agree with this though, as you have to let other people be stupid and selfish, it's up to them to choose how to live their life.
#57
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I agree that having children is an entirely selfish act. I don't know if I agree with this though, as you have to let other people be stupid and selfish, it's up to them to choose how to live their life.


At this point in our evolution the decision is almost always motivated by selfish reasons but you're not implying it's inherently selfish are you?
#58
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I agree that having children is an entirely selfish act. I don't know if I agree with this though, as you have to let other people be stupid and selfish, it's up to them to choose how to live their life.

But if you're saying their free choice is what's important, you've already bypassed that actually creating them. They made no choice in that. Any other choices they make afterwards is just dealing with what you decided for them: ie existing.
#59
Quote by Jackal58
I have no desire to kill anybody. I'm merely pointing out that if you adhere to this philosophy and you're still alive you're a hypocrite.

Nope, lol.

Quote by spitonastranger
I agree with Jackal. The only reason you'd have for advocating such a philosophy is if you believed that human life was a bad thing given that the purpose of not creating any more human life is to bring on human extinction. If you believe human life is a bad thing and you're still alive then you're a hypocrite.

Human life is a terrible thing. In becoming evolutionarily (is that a word?) perfect, we've hit an evolutionary dead end and we're ultimately destined to destroy both our own species and most of the other life on the planet. It doesn't mean I want to kill myself, and it doesn't mean I want to go hitler on everbody's arses.

For the record, I don't agree with antinatalism. It's pretty clear to me that not wanting babies and wanting to kill yourself and every other person in the world are not the same thing. I dont understand how any rational person could possibly think so.
#60
Quote by WCPhils
WTF?! Who actually thinks that?

Angsty teens.
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#61
This is bullshit. Jackal is saying that by saying birth is morally wrong, they are advocating the suicide of the species. Suicide as we traditionally understand it is suicide of the self, but if they say having babies is morally wrong since it's selfish, then logically, continuing the species is morally wrong because it's selfish. This would imply that life itself is morally wrong. So if they adhere to this philosophy, but don't want to die, then they too, are guilty of selfishly wanting to keep living rather than putting the good of the universe-without-our-species or whatever in front of that priority. Ergo, by not having immediately killing themselves, they're showing themselves to be hypocritical as well as moronic.
#62
Quote by Butt Rayge

Human life is a terrible thing. It doesn't mean I want to kill myself, and it doesn't mean I want to go hitler on everbody's arses.


Well you're just selfish then aren't you?

Quote by Butt Rayge
For the record, I don't agree with antinatalism. It's pretty clear to me that not wanting babies and wanting to kill yourself and every other person in the world are not the same thing. I dont understand how any rational person could possibly think so.


Dude anti-natalism doesn't mean "i don't think i will have babies because my career will suffer", It's the philosophical position that every one in the world should stop having babies which would lead to the extinction of the human race.

Why would you want the human race to go extinct? Because you believe it's a bad thing. Therefore, if you believe in anti-natalism (providing you're a human) you're a hypocrite, because you think the human race is a bad thing and yet you're still alive.
#63
Quote by LordBishek
This is bullshit. Jackal is saying that by saying birth is morally wrong, they are advocating the suicide of the species. Suicide as we traditionally understand it is suicide of the self, but if they say having babies is morally wrong since it's selfish, then logically, continuing the species is morally wrong because it's selfish. This would imply that life itself is morally wrong. So if they adhere to this philosophy, but don't want to die, then they too, are guilty of selfishly wanting to keep living rather than putting the good of the universe-without-our-species or whatever in front of that priority. Ergo, by not having immediately killing themselves, they're showing themselves to be hypocritical as well as moronic.

That is exactly what I am saying. If you believe the planet is better off without humanity
and advocate a position to remove humanity from the planet and you're still here talking about it you don't believe in your beliefs. You;re a hypocrite.
I;m not calling people that choose not to have children hypocrites. I'm calling people that believe our species should go extinct hypocrites.
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#64
Quote by Jackal58
That is exactly what I am saying. If you believe the planet is better off without humanity
and advocate a position to remove humanity from the planet and you're still here talking about it you don't believe in your beliefs. You;re a hypocrite.
I;m not calling people that choose not to have children hypocrites. I'm calling people that believe our species should go extinct hypocrites.


This thread has inspired me to read up because i really don't know much about extinctionists.

Apparently the voluntary human extinction movement does not advocate suicide, as they believe that by staying alive they can help to encourage people not to procreate which is of greater value.
#65
Quote by spitonastranger
Well you're just selfish then aren't you?


Dude anti-natalism doesn't mean "i don't think i will have babies because my career will suffer", It's the philosophical position that every one in the world should stop having babies which would lead to the extinction of the human race.

Why would you want the human race to go extinct? Because you believe it's a bad thing. Therefore, if you believe in anti-natalism (providing you're a human) you're a hypocrite, because you think the human race is a bad thing and yet you're still alive.

I know what it means.

I'm not sure you understand. The idea is for the race to die out, not for everybody to kill each other and themselves. Hypothetically, I could go through life encouraging others not to procreate, and not have children myself without ever killing anyone, encouraging anyone to kill, or killing myself.
#66
Quote by spitonastranger
This thread has inspired me to read up because i really don't know much about extinctionists.

Apparently the voluntary human extinction movement does not advocate suicide, as they believe that by staying alive they can help to encourage people not to procreate which is of greater value.


Oh that's just FANTASTIC. What a convenient loophole for them.

Something which nobody can prove is bullshit.

But if it smells like bullshit and looks like bullshit...

I mean come on, seriously? Certainly they can't be dumb enough to think they'll convince the virtual entirety of the human race to commit suicide. So if they accept this fact, they understand that they will do no good by staying alive. So they might as well kill themselves and lead by example.

Quote by Butt Rayge
Nope, lol.


Human life is a terrible thing. In becoming evolutionarily (is that a word?) perfect, we've hit an evolutionary dead end and we're ultimately destined to destroy both our own species and most of the other life on the planet. It doesn't mean I want to kill myself, and it doesn't mean I want to go hitler on everbody's arses.


I do not see how proposition A logically leads to proposition B.
Last edited by LordBishek at Aug 20, 2011,
#67
Quote by LordBishek
Oh that's just FANTASTIC. What a convenient loophole for them.

Something which nobody can prove is bullshit.

But if it smells like bullshit and looks like bullshit...

I mean come on, seriously? Certainly they can't be dumb enough to think they'll convince the virtual entirety of the human race to commit suicide. So if they accept this fact, they understand that they will do no good by staying alive. So they might as well kill themselves and lead by example.

Herp.

Derp.

Not the point.
#68
Quote by Butt Rayge
I know what it means.

I'm not sure you understand. The idea is for the race to die out, not for everybody to kill each other and themselves. Hypothetically, I could go through life encouraging others not to procreate, and not have children myself without ever killing anyone, encouraging anyone to kill, or killing myself.

If an individual has come to such an extreme belief I have no problem with them taking the first step. It is hypocritical to propose the extinction of our species and not killing yourself. You can argue it any way you like to but all of your arguments contain a logical fallacy that run counter to the premise of the philosophy.
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#69
Quote by Butt Rayge
Herp.

Derp.

Not the point.


Then what is the point? Apparently ecological impact is one of their objectives. If the destructive impact of an increase in humanity is what they seek to minimise, and knowing that if they all didn't exist, the overall benefit of them not existing is greater than any preaching they could do, then they're actually working away from their aims, not towards it.
#70
I like poking women with my penis. If a small human forces it's way out of her vagina 9 months later in a screaming fury, so be it.
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My ex did the same. Cheated on me and then acted like I'd given her sister a facial. Women are retarded.
#71
Quote by Jackal58
If an individual has come to such an extreme belief I have no problem with them taking the first step. It is hypocritical to propose the extinction of our species and not killing yourself. You can argue it any way you like to but all of your arguments contain a logical fallacy that run counter to the premise of the philosophy.


the premise of the philosophy isn't to kill others either which would be just as effective and extreme, so why don't they do that? does it make them hypocrites if they don't run out with machine guns and go on a murderous rampage? the idea is to stop people being born, not to murder others or kill yourself. life is a burden, and anybody that is born is too late, i.e. stop people being born.

i don't buy into the philosophy, but i certainly understand it.
Click here to hear my BOB DYLAN (Blowing in the Wind) out right now May 2k17
#72
Quote by Butt Rayge
Human life is a terrible thing. In becoming evolutionarily (is that a word?) perfect, we've hit an evolutionary dead end and we're ultimately destined to destroy both our own species and most of the other life on the planet. It doesn't mean I want to kill myself, and it doesn't mean I want to go hitler on everbody's arses.

For the record, I don't agree with antinatalism. It's pretty clear to me that not wanting babies and wanting to kill yourself and every other person in the world are not the same thing. I dont understand how any rational person could possibly think so.

Why do you think humans are "evolutionarily perfect"?
#74
Quote by laid-to-waste
the premise of the philosophy isn't to kill others either which would be just as effective and extreme, so why don't they do that? does it make them hypocrites if they don't run out with machine guns and go on a murderous rampage? the idea is to stop people being born, not to murder others or kill yourself. life is a burden, and anybody that is born is too late, i.e. stop people being born.

i don't buy into the philosophy, but i certainly understand it.

The premise of the philosophy is the extinction of the human race. At that point the methodology just becomes a nicety.
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#75
Quote by Dirge Humani
Philosophy is a bunch of made up fake science nonsense anyway.


OT: Sounds a lot like giving up. Honestly, because life can sometimes be hard and painful, we shouldn't bring any more children into the world? Ok...sure...
Of course, this position completely ignores the fact that life can also be quite joyful, even under hard circumstances. It all depends on how you look at it. If things seem to be going bad for me, for instance, I have the following choices: 1) find joy in the good things around me OR 2) dwell on all the bad stuff. Personally, I'd choose #1 every time.
#76
Quote by Jackal58
The premise of the philosophy is the extinction of the human race. At that point the methodology just becomes a nicety.


no it's not.

Antinatalism is a philosophical position that asserts a negative value judgment towards birth, standing in opposition to natalism


it asserts a negative value judgement. the actual actions of antinatalism are already presenting in parts of the world such as china with the 1978 one-child policy. it's not to wipe out the population, the concern of the philosophy is overpopulation, famine and maintaining a sustainable environment/economy.
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#77
Oh in that case they should all get castrated.
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#78
Quote by laid-to-waste
the premise of the philosophy isn't to kill others either which would be just as effective and extreme, so why don't they do that? does it make them hypocrites if they don't run out with machine guns and go on a murderous rampage? the idea is to stop people being born, not to murder others or kill yourself. life is a burden, and anybody that is born is too late, i.e. stop people being born.

i don't buy into the philosophy, but i certainly understand it.


I understand the philosophy as well but it's as simple as this; if you want the human race to become extinct you're a hypocrite. It's a paradox.

Killing other people is the logical progression of the ideology these people espouse but not doing that is the same thing as a catholic not going to church.
#79
Quote by Jackal58
The premise of the philosophy is the extinction of the human race. At that point the methodology just becomes a nicety.


this.

This whole premise is just stupid. Most things about life are a struggle, get over it. They are hypocrites. They don't want life to exist anymore, but they don't want to die themselves. Yea, OK.

Person 1: "How dare you have children! That is selfish. Life sucks, and we should no longer exist."

Person 2: "Then why are you still alive."

Person 1: "um.... because I have to warn you."

Person 2: Yea, that makes sense."

And the part about how having children is children is selfish is ridiculous. Everything humans do is selfish, as we just discussed in that other thread yesterday. Everything.

But being selfish isn't always a bad, we've just come to associate the word with greediness, and other things like that.
___

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#80
I think calling them hypocrites is pretty besides the point. Whether the people who suggest this idea do it or not doesn't change the idea itself.

If you want to argue against an idea you can't just say "well yeah you're not doing it!"