The US is boned. I choose this title because I can't have one long enough to........

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#2
This article takes multiple morality-neutral facts and slants them in the direction of the bias of the writer.

Do not want. Garbage.
My God, it's full of stars!
#3
I'm getting real tired of these political argument threads.
I can only listen to so many breakdowns and "spoken word" vocals before I wanna puke.

I find Jennette McCurdy attractive, but Elizabeth Gillies and Debby Ryan much more so.

That's enough, Djent people. We get it.
#6
Quote by truiteleague
tl;dr

why do post like that exist?! You are too lazy to wrote stuff so just copy/pasta the link!!!

among the 20 major advanced countries America now has:

the highest poverty rate, both generally and for children;
the greatest inequality of incomes;
the lowest government spending as a percentage of GDP on social programs for the disadvantaged;
the lowest number of paid holiday, annual, and maternity leaves;
the lowest score on the United Nations’ index of “material well-being of children”;
the worst score on the United Nations’ gender inequality index;
the lowest social mobility;
the highest public and private expenditure on health care as a portion of GDP,
yet accompanied by the highest

infant mortality rate;
prevalence of mental health problems;
obesity rate;
portion of people going without health care due to cost;
low-birth-weight children per capita (except for Japan);
consumption of antidepressants per capita;
along with the shortest life expectancy at birth (except for Denmark and Portugal);

the highest carbon dioxide emissions and water consumption per capita;
the lowest score on the World Economic Forum’s environmental performance index (except for Belgium), and the largest ecological footprint per capita (except for Belgium and Denmark);
the highest rate of failing to ratify international agreements;
the lowest spending on international development and humanitarian assistance as a percentage of GDP;
the highest military spending as a portion of GDP;
the largest international arms sales;
the most negative balance of payments (except New Zealand, Spain, and Portugal);
the lowest scores for student performance in math (except for Portugal and Italy) (and far from the top in both science and reading);
the highest high school dropout rate (except for Spain);
the highest homicide rate;
and the largest prison population per capita.


OT: This isn't news to anyone who's been paying attention to world politics. American Society is massively broken and has been for quit a while.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#7
Quote by Ur all $h1t
........


Why did you humour him?

He's clearly got the comprehension abilities of a banana, and won't read it anyway.
#8
Quote by Ur all $h1t
among the 20 major advanced countries America now has:

the lowest number of paid holiday, annual, and maternity leaves;


I think that is a good thing actually.
#9
Quote by Thread Title
The US is boned. I choose this title because I can't have one long enough to.......

Boned.
Lolololololo
To be vulnerable is needed most of all, if you intend to truly fall apart.


Quote by due 07
You have no idea how much I don't want to tell stories about my mother's vaginal slime on the internet.


I make music sometimes.
#10
Quote by FireHawk
I think that is a good thing actually.

Awesome. I don't, but then again I put the ability of people to have at least leisure time, travel and be with their families before the incessant accumulation of stuff. Thankfully I live in a country where that has, to at least some degree, been allowed. As a result, at least partially of this, my country comes out better than the US in measures of societal health.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#11
Quote by FireHawk
I think that is a good thing actually.


Well it effectively means you get paid less for the hours you are at work.

In what particular way is that a good thing?
#12
among the 20 major advanced countries America now has:

the highest poverty rate, both generally and for children;
the greatest inequality of incomes;
the lowest government spending as a percentage of GDP on social programs for the disadvantaged;
the lowest number of paid holiday, annual, and maternity leaves;
the lowest score on the United Nations’ index of “material well-being of children”;
the worst score on the United Nations’ gender inequality index;
the lowest social mobility;
the highest public and private expenditure on health care as a portion of GDP,
yet accompanied by the highest

infant mortality rate;
prevalence of mental health problems;
obesity rate;
portion of people going without health care due to cost;
low-birth-weight children per capita (except for Japan);
consumption of antidepressants per capita;
along with the shortest life expectancy at birth (except for Denmark and Portugal);

the highest carbon dioxide emissions and water consumption per capita;
the lowest score on the World Economic Forum’s environmental performance index (except for Belgium), and the largest ecological footprint per capita (except for Belgium and Denmark);
the highest rate of failing to ratify international agreements;
the lowest spending on international development and humanitarian assistance as a percentage of GDP;
the highest military spending as a portion of GDP;
the largest international arms sales;
the most negative balance of payments (except New Zealand, Spain, and Portugal);
the lowest scores for student performance in math (except for Portugal and Italy) (and far from the top in both science and reading);
the highest high school dropout rate (except for Spain);
the highest homicide rate;
and the largest prison population per capita.


We've gotta do something about this
Please call me Rainer, was 16 and empty minded when I made my profile.

Sometimes I talk to myself too...but never on the internet.
#13
well Ur all $h1t said it.....americans are stupid selfish ****s.....and all the nice americans and all the smart considerate ones cant do anything to make themselves look better
Quote by MarijuanaIsGood
if the elephant on the left is green, and the spider on the right is blue, what is in the middle and WHAT THE FUCK COLOR IS IT??


Quote by ThatGuy153à
Yo stop tripping, its just a Purple Bag'O'Green



i dont wanna melt in 2030
#14
Quote by guitarscreams
well Ur all $h1t said it.....americans are stupid selfish ****s.....and all the nice americans and all the smart considerate ones cant do anything to make themselves look better


Tell me about it.
To be vulnerable is needed most of all, if you intend to truly fall apart.


Quote by due 07
You have no idea how much I don't want to tell stories about my mother's vaginal slime on the internet.


I make music sometimes.
#15
Quote by joestrat5000
We've gotta do something about this



We?

Hell no, you do it.


3urop3 dun't car3 fur Am3r1ca
#16
Quote by Zeletros
We?

Hell no, you do it.


3urop3 dun't car3 fur Am3r1ca

your a dumbass we cant not care for other countries like thyat. we all have to pitch and make the world better together
Quote by MarijuanaIsGood
if the elephant on the left is green, and the spider on the right is blue, what is in the middle and WHAT THE FUCK COLOR IS IT??


Quote by ThatGuy153à
Yo stop tripping, its just a Purple Bag'O'Green



i dont wanna melt in 2030
#17
Quote by joestrat5000
We've gotta do something about this

You could start by reducing income inequality, which is heavily correlated with most of these issues, and thought by some researchers to be a huge causal factor.


Here's some graphs showing the correlation:




















http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence/methods


Those graphs are just compilations of the evidence made conveniently available by a leading group of researchers in the area, the evidence itself comes from a wide variety of the most reliable and respected sources in the world, evidence really doesn't get much better . However the graphs themselves are not statistical trickery, they explain on the site (which I linked to) exactly where they got their information from (a huge variety of the most reliable sources available, such as the United Nations Human Development Report, the World Bank, International Obesity TaskForce, WHO, OECD, UNICEF, UN, London School of Economics) how they compiled their graphs etc.

Obviously this is only a correlation, but there are well known causal processes at play here, from the website again:
To suggest that these relationships are causal does not involve a major departure from what we know already. Within countries we know that all the components of our Index of Health and Social Problems are strongly related to social status: the further down the social ladder the more common they become. The new part of the picture is simply that if you stretch out the social status differences all the problems related to social status become more common. Rather than postulating entirely new causal processes we are therefore only providing a bit more information about the relationships that have always been recognised.

People who have studied the graphs on this web site and in The Spirit Level carefully will have noticed that there is a clear tendency for countries which do badly on one outcome to do badly on others. We show evidence that 10 or 12 different problems tend to move together. That implies that they share an underlying cause. The association between inequality and our Index of Health and Social Problems is very close and no one has yet suggested an alternative.

Lastly, as the different chapters in our book show, many of the causal processes leading from inequality to the various health and social problems are already known. For example, the effects of social status on health have been demonstrated among monkeys in experiments which kept diet and material conditions the same while altering social status by moving animals into new groups and the effects of chronic stress on the immune and cardiovascular systems are increasingly well understood. Similarly, violence is more common in more unequal societies (where status competition is intensified) because it is so often triggered by people feeling looked down on, disrespected and humiliated.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Aug 20, 2011,
#19
↑ Although those graphs may be reliable, I dislike how each one was related to a straight line. some of the relationships to income inequality were direct, but drawing the line in some of the graphs which are mostly scattered data suggests there is a proportional relationship, which there isn't . Somewhat misleading.
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LET'S GO BUCKS
#20
i think some of that is alot of balony.
Quote by MarijuanaIsGood
if the elephant on the left is green, and the spider on the right is blue, what is in the middle and WHAT THE FUCK COLOR IS IT??


Quote by ThatGuy153à
Yo stop tripping, its just a Purple Bag'O'Green



i dont wanna melt in 2030
#21
If we're boned it's because people in this country are too stupid to see the obviously better way. Look at that chart on social mobility, Scandinavia better embodies the America Dream than America does.
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
Last edited by ErikLensherr at Aug 20, 2011,
#22
Quote by AeroRocker
↑ Although those graphs may be reliable, I dislike how each one was related to a straight line. some of the relationships to income inequality were direct, but drawing the line in some of the graphs which are mostly scattered data suggests there is a proportional relationship, which there isn't . Somewhat misleading.


I agree, they fail in the small sense that they are attempting visual representations of causality as opposed to representing strict correlation. I'm not denying the problems inherent in the US, however.
My God, it's full of stars!
#23
^
No they don't. The Authors are very clear on the point that the comparative data represents only correlational links. They draw causal inferences from the processes underlying the data and from other experimental findings etc.

Quote by AeroRocker
↑ Although those graphs may be reliable, I dislike how each one was related to a straight line. some of the relationships to income inequality were direct, but drawing the line in some of the graphs which are mostly scattered data suggests there is a proportional relationship, which there isn't . Somewhat misleading.

Drawing an Identity Line on Scatter Graphs representing linear correlations is standard practise in graphical representation of data.

It does not mislead at all (unless you don't know how to read a scatter graph), in fact it makes the relationship between the two factors clearer as you can judge the extent of the correlation by how closely the points adhere to the identity line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_line
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Aug 20, 2011,
#25
Quote by guitarscreams
your a dumbass we cant not care for other countries like thyat. we all have to pitch and make the world better together



Ain't that a bit hypocritic?
#27
Quote by RU Experienced?
What do you think is bologna?

This obviously.
To be vulnerable is needed most of all, if you intend to truly fall apart.


Quote by due 07
You have no idea how much I don't want to tell stories about my mother's vaginal slime on the internet.


I make music sometimes.
#28
Quote by Gorelord666
This obviously.

It's funny because the word refers to both the disgusting processed meat product as well as the city.
#29
Quote by Ur all $h1t
^
No they don't. The Authors are very clear on the point that the comparative data represents only correlational links. They draw causal inferences from the processes underlying the data and from other experimental findings etc.


That's fine. It's the graphs I have a problem with, not the "causal inferences from the processes underlying the data". I'm sure their research is very thorough, professional, and conclusive, but it's my opinion that the graphs are not representative of that same level of thoroughness
My God, it's full of stars!
#30
Quote by Dreadnought
That's fine. It's the graphs I have a problem with, not the "causal inferences from the processes underlying the data". I'm sure their research is very thorough, professional, and conclusive, but it's my opinion that the graphs are not representative of that same level of thoroughness

You've not really expressed why. They're extremely standard scatter graphs representing correlational data. I fail to see where that's misleading at all.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#31
The US also has a significantly higher population, higher GDP, larger geographical size and a much more varied conditions than the other countries on that list. Its a lot easier for the other developed countries to sort things like income inequality than it is for the US.
#32
Quote by duggyrocks
The US also has a significantly higher population, higher GDP, larger geographical size and a much more varied conditions than the other countries on that list. Its a lot easier for the other developed countries to sort things like income inequality than it is for the US.


I don't see how the bolded stop it. If anything, it shows that the USA is still blessed with fabulous human and physical resources that are being squandered to benefit the financial elite at the expense of the rest of the population.
#33
Quote by duggyrocks
The US also has a significantly higher population, higher GDP, larger geographical size and a much more varied conditions than the other countries on that list. Its a lot easier for the other developed countries to sort things like income inequality than it is for the US.

They talk about GDP, it's largely an irrelevant measure for what they're talking about (societal health) as it doesn't correlate well with social outcomes beyond a certain level of GDP. They, and others, argue that we've gone as far as we can in relying on GDP Growth to sort out social problems, it no longer works.

As for the Geographical Size and Population criticisms, they don't stand up. The authors found the same strong correlations with social problems and income inequality between individual US States (which are comparable with European country sizes and populations). They published those graphs alongside the international ones in their book, I can't remember whether or not they're on the website.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Aug 20, 2011,
#34
Quote by duggyrocks
The US also has a significantly higher population, higher GDP, larger geographical size and a much more varied conditions than the other countries on that list. Its a lot easier for the other developed countries to sort things like income inequality than it is for the US.


Thanks for being the only one here with something intelligent to say rather than jumping on the "yes! another thing wrong with the most powerful country in the world, which puts my country in much better light!!" wagon.
Quote by Overlord
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#35
Quote by Ur all $h1t
You've not really expressed why. They're extremely standard scatter graphs representing correlational data. I fail to see where that's misleading at all.


Because they will lead (as evident by this thread...) a larger amount of people to incorrect, myopic conclusions of the data than the thoroughness of the possible conclusions offered by the actual data and research excluding the graphs. To me, they are quick ways of showing a summation of the data and research and offering a short-hand explanation and conclusion as opposed to the actual depths and intricacies behind them. Obviously at times things like this are desired, but in this particular instance I find small fault with them
My God, it's full of stars!
#36
ur all shit: UGs retarded Irishman

duggyrocks: UGs schollar of an Irishman

One argues why there should be a line on a graph, the other makes keen observations about the stucture of a country and why its hard to compare it to others.

Hmmm...who should you listen to?
#37
Quote by bambi_slaughter
ur all shit: UGs retarded Irishman

duggyrocks: UGs schollar of an Irishman

One argues why there should be a line on a graph, the other makes keen observations about the stucture of a country and why its hard to compare it to others.

Hmmm...who should you listen to?


#38
Quote by bambi_slaughter
ur all shit: UGs retarded Irishman

duggyrocks: UGs schollar of an Irishman

One argues why there should be a line on a graph, the other makes keen observations about the stucture of a country and why its hard to compare it to others.

Hmmm...who should you listen to?


You're lucky your avatar is so adorable!
My God, it's full of stars!
#39
Quote by Dreadnought
Because they will lead (as evident by this thread...) a larger amount of people to incorrect, myopic conclusions of the data than the thoroughness of the possible conclusions offered by the actual data and research excluding the graphs. To me, they are quick ways of showing a summation of the data and research and offering a short-hand explanation and conclusion as opposed to the actual depths and intricacies behind them. Obviously at times things like this are desired, but in this particular instance I find small fault with them

Awesome. I posted the graphs by themselves (along with information on how to interpret them) as I don't think that it's reasonable to expect everyone to read The Spirit Level and all of the other public health and psychology research dating back decades in order to grasp the depths and intricacies of the data.
Your problem isn't with the graph, no graph or summary could accurately represent something in that depth, your problem seems to be essentially with the summation of complex research.

Again, I've seen no area where I've misled or misrepresented the intricacies behind the data; I've offered a summary consistent with it: Social Problems are highly correlated with income inequality in developed countries, there is also substantial evidence for a causal link between the two factors.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#40
Quote by bambi_slaughter

One argues why there should be a line on a graph, the other makes keen observations about the stucture of a country and why its hard to compare it to others.

Hmmm...who should you listen to?

Except that the comparisons being made internationally are also able to be made between geographical areas within the United States itself, making the standard claims of American exceptionalism redundant.


Also, I explained why their should be a line on the graph because someone pointed it out.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
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