#1
So I've been recording for about a year with a mate, and our recordings aren't too bad, but obviously, no where near the quality we'd like. I've been following Ola Englund, also known as fearedse, (youtube him) and using his tips and tecniques, but still no where near his results.

I use Logic pro 9, tascam US-122L, and a shure sm57. I use superior drummer for drums, which i've happy with, but i want to make the guitars sound bigger and more professional. at the moment i just get alot of clipping or i make the speakers woof (however you wanna spell it), can anyone give me a hand?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Define-The-Line/139184319494467?sk=app_2405167945

Crispy Salad is the most recent track which i recorded like 2 days ago. I quad tracked the the rythms, having a ENGL Powerball and Marshall JVM on each side. so yeah tips please?
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#2
TSE X50. I'd keep two rhythm tracks and use that amp sim for the other two. For that type of distortion, it should work very well. Be aware though, it's in beta, so it sucks a lot of CPU power, but it's a fantastic sim.

Its cleans are totally useless atm though.
#3
so record 2 rhythm tracks using an amp, and two again using a sim? is this better than amplitube, cos i have that too, my mate also has a line 6 gear box thing but that isn't compatible with logic pro 9
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#4
Yes, it is much better than amplitude. I think a large number of people who have used it would describe it as the best amp sim for distortion out there.

It may not give you quite what you're looking for, but it can't hurt to give it a shot, right? The quality will be pristine, if nothing else.
#5
just checked out a few clips on youtube, does sound like a beast. Cheers man, anyone else on this forum still reply, all help is appreciated!
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#6
and bro, you got a link for that TSE X50? i've got a mac and can't seem to find a decent download for it
Gibson Les Paul Classic 1960
Engl Powerball 120 Watt
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Boss OS-2
#7
Never under estimate the power of the bass guitar when it comes to distorted guitars. Most of the low end and boom from your guitar should be coming from the bass, not the guitars. I normally high pass my guitars out anywhere from 125 to 250. The bass takes up the bottom end and makes it powerful.

Also mic placement can change things massively, how are you placing your mics?
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Last edited by ChemicalFire at Aug 24, 2011,
#8
we have a decent bass guitar, though the strings are older than i am. we record the bass and then copy that recording and make it highly mid distorted whereas the original is mid deficient. but thanks for the low pass frequencies.

mic placement is generllly off the centre, wherever it sounds nice and even, and then we back the mic up around a inch or more. out volumes are not massivly high cos of neighbours but enough that you can't talk or shout to one another when playing.
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#9
First, try to add some mids. Even if the guitars sound too nasal on their own, try it out in the complete mix. I find that doing that usually gives a lot more punch to my tone.

Another, maybe somewhat unconventional, way (but something I like to do nonetheless) is to put a preamp right after the cabinet in my FX loops. So the idea would be (taking the earlier mentioned X50 as an example): X50 - Effects (Distortion and that kind of stuff) - Cabinet - Preamp - (EQ - I usually post-EQ my guitar tracks with a HPF and upping the mids a bit.

The preamp kind of acts like a distortion pedal without giving a lot of fuzz. It makes your tone a bit dirtier, especially when you up the mids.

I don't know any good free VST preamps; I like to use the ones that come with Pod Farm 2. If you like I can upload some samples of the difference between my tones with and without the preamp in the loop.
#10
Quote by vivalaheerey
we have a decent bass guitar, though the strings are older than i am. we record the bass and then copy that recording and make it highly mid distorted whereas the original is mid deficient. but thanks for the low pass frequencies.


The low frequencies of the guitar make it muddy. In fact this is true of every instrument, ALWAYS High Pass an instrument if you can, will keep the mix clear. I follow recording revolution on youtube, he works on general mixing tips that work on any DAW, watch this tutorial, it should help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-LGOQ-Hh4k
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#11
A few things...

Anyone suggesting vst plug-ins/amp sims, please stop because you're wasting your time - Logic supports plug-ins in AU format only. I can't help but feel that if more people called them plug-ins instead of 'vsts' all the time, more people might understand this but I guess the saying goes 'ignorance is bliss'.

Now that that is out the way:

TS, I'm afraid X50 doesn't exist in Mac AU format - or at least didn't last time I checked for it. My personal favourite plug-in (I use Logic 8) is LePou Plug-ins 'Lecto' amp sim, which I find great for metal tones, and I then use Space Designer (the convolution reverb plug-in, which is still in Logic 9 almost identically I believe) to load a cab impulse response from a guy on ultimatemetal.com's Andy Sneap forum (the impulse set is called Godz Cab) and together they sound... well, Hollow Ground - Ill Fate is mainly that sim into those IR's (admittedly there's a little of the original miked amps in there too, more centrally and lower in the mix, and it's an oldish mix of mine now, but apart from being more on the hardcore side of things I presume it's sort of what you're after!)

Anyway, your main problem is too much low end on the guitars, and not enough high-end sparkle. In fact, I think the whole mix needs more 'brilliance' (add above 10kHz) as well as the drum overheads being much brighter. Also try adding a bit more upper midrange to the guitars. Scoop a little out of the 500-850Hz range, and then boost again around 350-450Hz for a bit of warmth without too much low end rumble (I'd say HPF higher than everyone else - go for around 150Hz, and then do a few tracks of the bass).

It depends how you like to mix, but I like the bass to sit as the lowest element of my mixes, so I have a bass track with a HPF at 30Hz and LPF at 150-200Hz, which I then notch EQ the kick drum fundamentals out of, and compress the hell out of it. I then blend that with the original bass track, and a bass track with little low end and a dollop of lower-midrange fuzz, which basically gels the guitars and bass together.

I think your guitar tone is actually pretty good though - you just need to mix brighter (I'm guessing you're mixing on headphones or ported speakers in a small, boxy room which is encouraging you to mix darker than you should. The main problem with the guitars lies in the veil you've covered them with, by not allowing the high end to shine through.


Hope a little of that helps!
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Aug 24, 2011,
#13
@Eryth would gear box by line 6 be any good? its can't be used in logic, but i could export drum and bass part and record in something like Audacity?

@Chemicalfire thanks, I'ma check it out after work, all i could really find on youtube were videos by like pop/rock producers who don't really do the whole quad track ting.

@Disarm Goth thanks thats not something I've heard of before,and a lot of information. would i boost/change these qualities just using the simple channel eq on logic? i've been doing this by ear and feeling for the past year so i'm a bit noob when it comes to it. also thanks for clearing up the vst stuff! is LePou still available in Logic pro 9

@scgguitarking there are 4 dist rhythms and 4 clean rhythms each panned 64 on each side (can't do more than that on logic) , and for this i double tracked lead dists setting it to like 11 either side.
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#14
Gearbox is pretty much the same thing as Pod Farm, it's just the older version of it. I'm not sure if it has the same preamps as Pod Farm, but as far as I know the only big change between GB and Pod Farm was the interface, not the amps and effects.

So yes, GearBox would work, as far as I know.
#16
I realise my bolded rant came across a little harshly; I was in a bit of a bad mood at the time


Also:
Quote by vivalaheerey
@Disarm Goth thanks thats not something I've heard of before,and a lot of information. would i boost/change these qualities just using the simple channel eq on logic? i've been doing this by ear and feeling for the past year so i'm a bit noob when it comes to it. also thanks for clearing up the vst stuff! is LePou still available in Logic pro 9

Erm... I'm no goth My username is my band name, and I feel if a band was called 'Disarm Goth' they would have few prospects for being marketable

Anyway, yes Channel EQ is actually a great EQ plug-in; not the most musical-sounding, or the most accurate (I'd imagine), but it allows you to do what is important, and I highly advise you to turn the frequency analyser (just called 'Analyzer') on, and set it to high resolution - very CPU-friendly for a frequency analyser, and will help you visualise your EQ'ing in your head, over time, so you can make better judgements on where things fit into a mix.

As for LeCto - yeah, it is available. Basically, plug-ins are in different formats - these formats are compatible based on format/file type (e.g .vst, .au, .tdm, .rtas) rather than a specification that could make them age. What I mean is that Logic has used Audio Units for quite a while, and any version of Logic that supports AU plug-ins, will load any AU plug-in, assuming the host computer is recent enough to have sufficient power to run the plug-in smoothly.

You can get the LePou LeCto amp sim here (it's freeware, don't be concerned by LePou's rather blog-like webpage, he does amazing things with plug-ins) and there are also a couple more (LeXtac and LeGion) newly available in AU format. Then you will need to get hold of some quality impulse responses (IR's, or often wrongly referred to as 'impulses' by half the recording world, it would seem).

I also suggest you use the God's Cab IR's as found here - all you do is open Logic's Space Designer plug-in (in mono, and the plug-in is under the Reverb sub-menu of plug-ins) and where it says 'IR Loader, click that area and it will allow you to load your own IR, so then you just navigate to wherever you've saved the God's Cab folder to, and select an impulse response. Then make sure to set the Dry level to 0 and the Reverb level to 100/Max, over on the lower right of the plug-in screen, or you'll end up blending the signal before the IR with the one you want.
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Aug 25, 2011,
#17
Quote by DisarmGoliath

I also suggest you use the God's Cab IR's as found here - all you do is open Logic's Space Designer plug-in (in mono, and the plug-in is under the Reverb sub-menu of plug-ins) and where it says 'IR Loader, click that area and it will allow you to load your own IR, so then you just navigate to wherever you've saved the God's Cab folder to, and select an impulse response. Then make sure to set the Dry level to 0 and the Reverb level to 100/Max, over on the lower right of the plug-in screen, or you'll end up blending the signal before the IR with the one you want.



Oooooh, that looks awesome.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#18
Quote by ChemicalFire
Oooooh, that looks awesome.

It is My go to IR's in fact.


Also, TS, I forgot to mention but the song for the mix I did that I linked you to as an example of LeCto/God's Cab earlier is also on the same site as the IR's, the member who uploaded the raw stems is called avrinder and the thread is called Heavy Mix Practise HC or something like that - will find it shortly in case anyone else here wants to play around. May even do an up-to-date mix myself in the near future now I know a bit more about using amp sims.

Edit: Title was close enough, Mixing Practice (fast heavy song)
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Aug 25, 2011,
#19
Thanks a lot man for the frequency and the link to videos, sounds alot better, check it out to see if i've done it better. I may need help if i start using the ir's so i may drop you a message in the future, but thanks for your help
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Engl Powerball 120 Watt
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#20
Just checked out first 30secs, gotta go out so can't listen to more, but sounds better - guitars are improved, but now that the cymbals are brighter they can be made a little quieter to compensate for the added presence to them (basically bring down the faders for your overheads, and hi-hat if you have a separate one, by a few dB - probably 2-3dB should work for the OH's, HH's maybe 3-4.5dB).

Will give a better listen when I get back here later.


Edit: Yeah you can PM me about IR's etc. if you like, I'm happy to help. Also, listening again now while waiting for my lift:

1) Maybe give the rhythm guitars a tiny more boost around 3kHz region, maybe by 1.5dB ish.

2) Possibly try bringing the OH's in a little bit, so they're not panned hard left and right - at the moment they're fighting with the guitars for space in the stereo image, so making them a little narrower will improve the drum sound's focus, and give your guitars more space whenever there is a loud crash cymbal.

3) As cool as they are, I think your sub-bass drops are a little too loud when you use them - it's personal preference I suppose, and I don't listen to too much music that uses them, but on the stuff I like with them (a few LoG songs) the subbass never seems quite so obvious to me
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Aug 25, 2011,
#21
Thanks i didn't pan the OH since its only available in one channel strips for me, so i turned down the room mics a lil, is that still pretty much the same? but yeah thats i've just done that, theres a tiny bit of difference, but thanks for taking the time to explain this all to me, its been of great help. check the same link out again, it'll be on there
Gibson Les Paul Classic 1960
Engl Powerball 120 Watt
Orange PPC212 Cabi
ISP Decimator
MXR 10-band EQ
Boss OS-2
#22
I tend to record a mono guitar track down center that is mid-scooped to hell, dark and chunky. Just that Pantera chunk that refuses to come out in the mix. It adds growl to the bass and brings the guitar tracks in towards the middle. That's it.

The guitars you hear are panned wide with A LOT of mids, HPF'd at 250 and boosted (shelf) at 12k.

The center guitar is too "metally", flat and thin, but it is percussive and dark and heavy. The LR guitars are punchy and full, but a bit bright and washy.

Different frequencies are at different points in the spectrum, and the low end is only mono, never duplicated. Duping guitars is only additive on the mids and high end. It just mushes up your low end and kills your definition.

Bass + that mono mid-scooped guitar is the chunk. They melt together in the center of the mix with a bit of tubey warmth on the bass channel. That channel should never be heard, but if you REMOVE it from the mix you will know the difference. It's like the balls drop off the horse.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

Last edited by Bubonic Chronic at Aug 26, 2011,
#23
so add an extra guitar scoop it? there is no centre guitar, 2 rhythms on each side and the lead which is panned slightly on each side.

or are you describing your sound?
Gibson Les Paul Classic 1960
Engl Powerball 120 Watt
Orange PPC212 Cabi
ISP Decimator
MXR 10-band EQ
Boss OS-2