#1
I'm going to be getting a tube amp head relatively soon but i was wondering about recording using the preamp out + cab impulses method.

1. What cable am i going to need? I heard theres a big difference between the ones you use with instruments and the ones you use with speakers.

2. I heard i need to have it plugged into a speaker while recording using the preamp out method otherwise i will damage it. Is there anyway of bypassing the cab as i'm going to have to turn it up a bit and my neighbours are fussy about noise.

3. I'm going to be using one of these to plug the head into a speaker, will it be safe to use the one i have or is there a special kind?



Any help is appreciated!

Also if anyone can link me to a page about recording using this method it would be appreciated.
Last edited by Afroboy267 at Aug 26, 2011,
#2
i would guess you would want a speaker cable, just to be safe..but im pretty sure you can a hotplate or a dummy load to get the cab nice and quite
#3
Quote by slingshotjr
i would guess you would want a speaker cable, just to be safe..but im pretty sure you can a hotplate or a dummy load to get the cab nice and quite

Ah ok. I'll try the speaker cable, can anyone else confirm this?

And the hotplate looks like a good option, fcking expensive though .

Thanks for the recommendations, the people in GG&A are bloody useless.
#4
Right, let's break this down...

1) You need a typical mono (Tip/Sleeve) 1/4" jack to jack to run from your effects loop to your interface/DI box. You will also need a speaker cable (proper one, as the cable will be handling a much more powerful signal) to go between your amp's speaker out and the cab's amp input.

2) It is correct, with the exception being that you place an attenuator between the amp and the cab, which would enable you to lower the cab volume considerably post-amp with the amp still seeing the correct load. Failure to provide an adequate load for the amp head will result in damage to the power amp tubes, and could potentially damage other elements of the power amp circuit (and you really don't want blown capacitors as they can cause damage to everything when they, sometimes quite literally, go up in flames). You can also use some attenuators to lower the signal enough for you to take the signal from the attenuator into your DI/interface without hooking up to the cab, but that will usually degrade the signal considerably as you're needlessly giving the signal lots of power and then attenuating it all again.

3) No, do not under any circumstances try to connect your amp to your cab with that cable or bad things will happen.


Also, if you find the user ethan_hanus on here, and then look up the threads he's made (or just search the following thread title) you should find his guide to "The Pre-amp Out Method" or something along those lines.
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Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Aug 26, 2011,
#5
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Right, let's break this down...

1) You need a typical mono (Tip/Sleeve) 1/4" jack to jack to run from your effects loop to your interface/DI box. You will also need a speaker cable (proper one, as the cable will be handling a much more powerful signal) to go between your amp's speaker out and the cab's amp input.

2) It is correct, with the exception being that you place an attenuator between the amp and the cab, which would enable you to lower the cab volume considerably post-amp with the amp still seeing the correct load. Failure to provide an adequate load for the amp head will result in damage to the power amp tubes, and could potentially damage other elements of the power amp circuit (and you really don't want blown capacitors as they can cause damage to everything when they, sometimes quite literally, go up in flames). You can also use some attenuators to lower the signal enough for you to take the signal from the attenuator into your DI/interface without hooking up to the cab, but that will usually degrade the signal considerably as you're needlessly giving the signal lots of power and then attenuating it all again.

3) No, do not under any circumstances try to connect your amp to your cab with that cable or bad things will happen.


Also, if you find the user ethan_hanus on here, and then look up the threads he's made (or just search the following thread title) you should find his guide to "The Pre-amp Out Method" or something along those lines.

Ok cool, cheers. This is the reply i've been looking for!

As for the connection to the speaker i'm actually using an internal one in my AVT combo as i don't have a cab yet but want to use the amp :/. I've got it all worked out live and at band practise and stuff but practising at home i was hoping to use the speaker in that.
#6
Also with the Attenuator will this be sufficient?: http://www.gak.co.uk/en/electro-harmonix-signal-pad/18452

If not can anyone recommend me a good, budget one?
#7
Quote by Afroboy267
Also with the Attenuator will this be sufficient?: http://www.gak.co.uk/en/electro-harmonix-signal-pad/18452

If not can anyone recommend me a good, budget one?

Unfortunately, that is more the kind of thing you'd use to make up for differences in volume between your pedals and amp channels :/ If you put that between your amp and a speaker you'd fry the insides of it most likely.

But, being more awake now, I realise something - if you're only using the preamp signal, there's no point in you having the master volume of your amp any higher than the minimal setting for you to hear it (if you want to), so you might as well just have the cable plugged in normally between amp and speaker, and just keep the volume down. The signal you're recording with, if you take the preamp output, is unaffected by the master volume level you choose (as that controls the level of power amp gain) so you can get away with the amp being very quiet.

It's only when miking it up that the amp would become a problem at home, assuming you wanted to crank the power tubes to get some saturation.


Edit: So all you really need is this sort of cable, to go between your head and speaker cab, and you're good to go. But, have you checked that the speakers in your combo can be driven by an amp of the same power as the one you're getting?
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Aug 27, 2011,
#8
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Unfortunately, that is more the kind of thing you'd use to make up for differences in volume between your pedals and amp channels :/ If you put that between your amp and a speaker you'd fry the insides of it most likely.

But, being more awake now, I realise something - if you're only using the preamp signal, there's no point in you having the master volume of your amp any higher than the minimal setting for you to hear it (if you want to), so you might as well just have the cable plugged in normally between amp and speaker, and just keep the volume down. The signal you're recording with, if you take the preamp output, is unaffected by the master volume level you choose (as that controls the level of power amp gain) so you can get away with the amp being very quiet.

It's only when miking it up that the amp would become a problem at home, assuming you wanted to crank the power tubes to get some saturation.


Edit: So all you really need is this sort of cable, to go between your head and speaker cab, and you're good to go. But, have you checked that the speakers in your combo can be driven by an amp of the same power as the one you're getting?

Erm, thats a good idea but i don't know if the amp i'm getting can do it. Heres some pics:
Front: http://www.bugera-amps.com/images/lightboxphotos/6262%20INFINIUM_P0AAH_Front_XXL.png
Back: http://www.bugera-amps.com/images/lightboxphotos/6262%20INFINIUM_P0AAH_Back_XXL.png

I know that the internal speaker is 8 Ohms and the amp i'm getting has a 4/8/16 ohm output switch so i don't think power will be a problem (unless theres some other factor?).

Also in order to do that i'd have to take the back off my combo to get to the jack socket. I'll upload a pic in a minute and show you what i mean.
Last edited by Afroboy267 at Aug 27, 2011,
#9
This is the back of the Combo, as you can see i can't access the jack input for the speaker without taking the back off. I'll have a look inside now and see what the deal is:

#10
Quote by Afroboy267
Erm, thats a good idea but i don't know if the amp i'm getting can do it. Heres some pics:
Front: http://www.bugera-amps.com/images/lightboxphotos/6262%20INFINIUM_P0AAH_Front_XXL.png
Back: http://www.bugera-amps.com/images/lightboxphotos/6262%20INFINIUM_P0AAH_Back_XXL.png

I know that the internal speaker is 8 Ohms and the amp i'm getting has a 4/8/16 ohm output switch so i don't think power will be a problem (unless theres some other factor?).

Also in order to do that i'd have to take the back off my combo to get to the jack socket. I'll upload a pic in a minute and show you what i mean.

Mmmmm, tasty-looking amp! I presume that you would set your gain level where you want it for the tone, and the channel volume is the master volume (i.e no dedicated master volume for amp) so you would just set that as low as you need and it won't have a negative impact on the preamp sound.

As long as you keep the amp on low volumes it shouldn't be a problem, but the speakers in the cab have to be able to handle the power (Wattage) too. Taking Vintage 30's, as a popular example, the maximum power a single V30 can handle is 60W... so two would effectively be able to cope with your amp comfortably as long as you keep a bit of headroom free rather than whacking the volume to max.

I don't know too much on that, so you'd be better off asking someone else, but I believe it depends on whether the speakers are wired in series or parallel, and if they are in series then two V30's should be ok, but if in parallel I think you would need more (4x12's are typically two series sets, in parallel, I think). But either way, I think you'd be ok as long as you kept it low on the volume as I've plugged my Switchblade into a little 1x12 combo's speaker before when a venue didn't provide the 4x12 they said they would, and rather than cancel the gig I had to risk plugging my amp into it. Needless to say, the amp survived unscather (to my knowledge).
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#11
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Mmmmm, tasty-looking amp! I presume that you would set your gain level where you want it for the tone, and the channel volume is the master volume (i.e no dedicated master volume for amp) so you would just set that as low as you need and it won't have a negative impact on the preamp sound.

As long as you keep the amp on low volumes it shouldn't be a problem, but the speakers in the cab have to be able to handle the power (Wattage) too. Taking Vintage 30's, as a popular example, the maximum power a single V30 can handle is 60W... so two would effectively be able to cope with your amp comfortably as long as you keep a bit of headroom free rather than whacking the volume to max.

I don't know too much on that, so you'd be better off asking someone else, but I believe it depends on whether the speakers are wired in series or parallel, and if they are in series then two V30's should be ok, but if in parallel I think you would need more (4x12's are typically two series sets, in parallel, I think). But either way, I think you'd be ok as long as you kept it low on the volume as I've plugged my Switchblade into a little 1x12 combo's speaker before when a venue didn't provide the 4x12 they said they would, and rather than cancel the gig I had to risk plugging my amp into it. Needless to say, the amp survived unscather (to my knowledge).

Oh right, ok, thats good to know then.

Apparantly my combo is 175 Watts but i've just opened the back up and had a look inside, theres no way i can plug the head into it unfortunatly :/. I'm going to have to either borrow or wait til i get a 4x12 before i can actually use the head, shame.

Luckily though the place my band practises at have a few 4x12's so at least i can use it in practises. I might just buy a small 2x12 one for now while i save up for a 4x12.

Last edited by Afroboy267 at Aug 27, 2011,