#1

So turns out the college I transferred to had a more in depth music fundamentals class then my previous school Bottom line ....im now in a Theory 1 class and we are reviewing fundamentals! Im already starting to strain in week one as we start intervals (which i never learned).

My homework is as follows

Draw Interval Below as indicated

#1

It gives (in Treble clef)
------------

-------------

------------ (Basically an A ---can you see the staff im drawing----?)
..... 0
------------

--------------
M3 (it wants me to complete the staff so its a Major Third)


So In response I filled it in with
------------

-------------

------------
..........0 (A)
------------
..........0 (f)
--------------


.......My understanding is the bottom note (correct me if im wrong) is telling you what key you are in. So while the distance between the two is a third, the bottom note being an F tells me its an FMaj Key (is this wrong to assume?)

So with the bottom note showing a Fmaj key, and the note above being an A, the interval is a Major Third BECAUSE the note "A" in the Fmaj scale is not sharp or flat. So what ive drawn here is correct for these reasons.


Does this make sense? Kind of hard to convey online. I have more questions, but lets see if anyone can help me with this one and clarify that my understanding of this is correct. Thanks


#2

This is my second question if anyone can answer this one as well.....


So the above logic for the bottom note being what tells me the key im in kind of has a hole in it. For example.

...........#
#---------------------------------------------------------

--------------#---------------------------0---------------
......#
----------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------(flat)0---------------

----------------------------------------------------------

If the above key signature shows me a Emaj key signature, and the bottom note of the interval is showing me a flat G (which with my above reasoning would be telling me im in a G -flat-- Maj key........what key do I base my answer off?

Is it showing me a Emaj key or a G -flat- Maj key?

(can you tell me with the example i gave what type of interval it would be and why?)


THANKS!
Last edited by Go0ber at Aug 27, 2011,
#2
Well if you're going to college for music and don't know intervals... you should talk to your prof and get a tutor...

Yes, I see the staff, no you shouldn't assume that the lowest note is the key- BUT because this doesn't have the context of a song it is ok in this case, yes that is a major third interval.
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#3
if your just doing intervals you dont need to wrry about the key much

just count up a minor third (3 half steps)
A,A#,B,C
so the answer would be C
oh major third....

it owuld be C#
major third (2 whole steps)
and youre also correct F to a is also a major third
Last edited by supersac at Aug 27, 2011,
#4
Quote by supersac
if your just doing intervals you dont need to wrry about the key much

just count up a minor third (3 half steps)
A,A#,B,C
so the answer would be C
oh major third....

it owuld be C#
major third (2 whole steps)



however my teacher tried to tell us that the half step method took forever and was inefficiant. So he taught us to find what key it was in, then take the top note and see if it was in said key (if not was it raised or lowered a half step).....if so conclude if it was Diminished, minor or augmented (if i was understanding him correctly).


And if the bottom note isnt the key and its a bad way to go about figuring it out without half step counting....why did it work?

#2

This is my second question if anyone can answer this one as well.....


So the above logic for the bottom note being what tells me the key im in kind of has a hole in it. For example.

...........#
#---------------------------------------------------------

--------------#---------------------------0---------------
......#
----------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------(flat)0---------------

----------------------------------------------------------

If the above key signature shows me a Emaj key signature, and the bottom note of the interval is showing me a flat G (which with my above reasoning would be telling me im in a G -flat-- Maj key........what key do I base my answer off?

Is it showing me a Emaj key or a G -flat- Maj key?

(can you tell me with the example i gave what type of interval it would be and why?)


THANKS!
Last edited by Go0ber at Aug 27, 2011,
#5
Quote by Go0ber
however my teacher tried to tell us that the half step method took forever and was inefficiant. So he taught us to find what key it was in, then take the top note and see if it was in said key (if not was it raised or lowered a half step).....if so conclude if it was Diminished, minor or augmented (if i was understanding him correctly).


And if the bottom note isnt the key and its a bad way to go about figuring it out without half step counting....why did it work?


it makes sense to me the half step method especially on a guitar


and i didnt say its a bad method i was just trying to help and show you an answer

and to your second question four sharps is in the key of E
Last edited by supersac at Aug 27, 2011,
#6
The bottom note doesn't have anything to do with what key the song is in. If I have a song in C major and the lowest note happens to be an E, it doesn't mean it's in E major/minor. Those # that are on the clef tell you what key it's in. It's called a key signature. In your case, you have four sharps, so your song is in E major/C# minor depending on where it resolves.

Look up the circle of fifths if you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Edit:
Looking back at your post, you have to draw in the note a major third above A if I'm not mistaken? Usually when you do this you are using the note given as the lower tone, so you would go a major third above this, (C#), rather than a major third below (F).
Last edited by ibz120 at Aug 27, 2011,
#7
Quote by ibz120
The bottom note doesn't have anything to do with what key the song is in. If I have a song in C major and the lowest note happens to be an E, it doesn't mean it's in E major/minor. Those # that are on the clef tell you what key it's in. It's called a key signature. In your case, you have four sharps, so your song is in E major/C# minor depending on where it resolves.

Look up the circle of fifths if you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Edit:
Looking back at your post, you have to draw in the note a major third above A if I'm not mistaken? Usually when you do this you are using the note given as the lower tone, so you would go a major third above this, (C#), rather than a major third below (F).



but it says on my homework, White in the note below as listed up top by #1 that I showed. So I assumed I was writing in the note below the given one.

And i do know what your talking about, its not identifying the key im having trouble with.

...........#
#---------------------------------------------------------

--------------#---------------------------0---------------
......#
----------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------(flat)0---------------

----------------------------------------------------------

I know this is an Emaj key as notated by the signature. Im just trying to show I know the logic im using with using the bottom note to identify the key has to be wrong or confusing because then I dont know how to identify the interval based off the top note. So I cant tell if its Maj, Minor, Augmented, Deminished, because I have no idea what scale im basing it off


mmmmmmmm I know its confusing, Im trying to explain it as best I can.

Maybe this would be easier. Someone name the interval I just listed above in #2 and tell me WHY (other then the half step method if you can) it is that Interval
Last edited by Go0ber at Aug 27, 2011,
#8
Gb to D# is a major 6th or diminished 7th or double sharp 5th(its th elast one really in E)

because it a step above a perfect fifth...really i dont know how to explain it withoth describing the distance between the intervals

edit: listen to that guy V he konws what hes talkign about
Last edited by supersac at Aug 27, 2011,
#9
Gb to D#? it's a doubly augmented fifth. i find it strange they'd give you that on a fundamental theory course. you sure you popped that in right? it's 9 semitones, but the notes given are G and D, and G up to D is always a fifth (within the octave), regardless of what kind of G or what kind of D is given. therefore, since 7 semitones is a perfect fifth, 8 must be an augmented fifth, and 9 must be a doubly augmented fifth (we keep it in fifths because we know G to D is a fifth). if they gave you Gb to Eb, it'd be a major sixth (because G up to E is a sixth), even though it'd sound the same as Gb to D#.

i'd advise learning the half step method. it'll give you the greatest understanding -- you won't always be able to base them off scales. it's like saying you want to go to class to be a mechanic but you don't want to learn how the engine works.

and the thing about music theory is that it's cumulative. everything you learn from hereon in will assume that you know the material you're reviewing now as a prerequisite. if it's not clicking, get a tutor. it's not the kind of thing you get by just letting it sit on the back burner and hoping it'll click one day.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#10
It isn't in a song, so it could be either a Gb power chord, or a D4.
What do you guys listen to when playing video games?
Quote by DemonicSamurai

Quote by T3hdude

Men fapping.


Sorry, didn't realize I was that loud.

I'll be leaving your closet now.
#11
Thanks for help, can anyone tell me what this one is asking

Draw interval ABOVE as indicated

------------

-------------
......0
------------

------------

--------------
DA5

Whats the D doing in front of the augmented 5th. Whats it mean
Last edited by Go0ber at Aug 27, 2011,
#12
stop worrying about shortcuts. shortcuts get you where you need to be but you don't actually learn anything. so when the time comes that you need to apply what you've learned, you're not stuck like a deer in the headlights. there are reasons that people haven't used only shortcuts for centuries, and it's not because they just want to make life harder.

if you're given an F# and you're told to write a minor second under it, you find the note that's a semitone below it and write it as some kind of E (since a second below F has to be E in some form, otherwise it wouldn't be a second).

DA5 is probably a doubly augmented fifth. or a typo.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#13
Quote by AeolianWolf
stop worrying about shortcuts. shortcuts get you where you need to be but you don't actually learn anything. so when the time comes that you need to apply what you've learned, you're not stuck like a deer in the headlights. there are reasons that people haven't used only shortcuts for centuries, and it's not because they just want to make life harder.

if you're given an F# and you're told to write a minor second under it, you find the note that's a semitone below it and write it as some kind of E (since a second below F has to be E in some form, otherwise it wouldn't be a second).

DA5 is probably a doubly augmented fifth. or a typo.


(Bass clef)
...##0
------------

-------------
........0
------------

------------

--------------
DA5


So hows my answer look for that one?


And next question......

(bass clef)

........0
------------

-------------

------------

------------
.........#0
--------------

Identify the interval

What interval is this and how? If im doing it correctly its a 9th of some kind? Is there such a thing as a 9? WTF
#14
Quote by Go0ber
(Bass clef)
...##0
------------

-------------
........0
------------

------------

--------------
DA5


So hows my answer look for that one?


it looks good. E to B## is a doubly augmented 5th.


Quote by Go0ber
And next question......

(bass clef)

........0
------------

-------------

------------

------------
.........#0
--------------

Identify the interval

What interval is this and how? If im doing it correctly its a 9th of some kind? Is there such a thing as a 9? WTF


there is indeed such a thing as a ninth. it's the same thing as a second, only an octave higher.

C D E F G A B C D...

the bolded C to the bolded D would be a major second. the bolded C to the underlined D is a major ninth.

you have an A# to a B an octave above it. if an A# to a B is a minor second, what would the answer to the question posed be?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#15
Quote by AeolianWolf
it looks good. E to B## is a doubly augmented 5th.


there is indeed such a thing as a ninth. it's the same thing as a second, only an octave higher.

C D E F G A B C D...

the bolded C to the bolded D would be a major second. the bolded C to the underlined D is a major ninth.

you have an A# to a B an octave above it. if an A# to a B is a minor second, what would the answer to the question posed be?


mmmm

Would the answer also be a Maj9th?
Last edited by Go0ber at Aug 27, 2011,
#16
Quote by Go0ber
mmmm

Would the answer also be a Maj9th?


think about what you're saying. if the A# to B is a minor second, how could A# to a B an octave above the other B be a major ninth? remember that minor and major are not interchangeable, and are assigned based on the number of semitones in the interval. a minor ninth, the same as an octave + a minor second, would contain 13 semitones. a major ninth, the same as an octave + a major second, would contain 14 semitones. it helps to be able to know the amount of semitones, but in cases of compound intervals, you can just find the simple interval (i.e. the interval without taking octaves into consideration), and then account for the octaves once you know the interval. A# to B is a minor second (1 semitone), and now that you know that, you can raise the B an octave (12 semitones). you'd need to add up the minor second and the octave to find your answer, which would contain 13 semitones (12 from the octave, 1 from the simple interval -- the m2).

the answer would therefore be a minor 9th.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#17
You might benefit from getting Wyatt et al's "Harmony and THeory" which walks you through all these basics.
#18
Quote by AeolianWolf
think about what you're saying. if the A# to B is a minor second, how could A# to a B an octave above the other B be a major ninth? remember that minor and major are not interchangeable, and are assigned based on the number of semitones in the interval. a minor ninth, the same as an octave + a minor second, would contain 13 semitones. a major ninth, the same as an octave + a major second, would contain 14 semitones. it helps to be able to know the amount of semitones, but in cases of compound intervals, you can just find the simple interval (i.e. the interval without taking octaves into consideration), and then account for the octaves once you know the interval. A# to B is a minor second (1 semitone), and now that you know that, you can raise the B an octave (12 semitones). you'd need to add up the minor second and the octave to find your answer, which would contain 13 semitones (12 from the octave, 1 from the simple interval -- the m2).

the answer would therefore be a minor 9th.



Man thanks for the help....everyone, you guys just saved me a lesson I would of had to buy in order to complete this crappy assignment. Ive gotten the majority of it done, im sure ill be back to this forum plenty for help this semester. Thanks
#19
My next question is one I forgot to ask. So do intervals work the same if the notes are ascending? For example.

Draw interval BELOW as indicated


-----------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------
(Treble)
-----------------------------------------------
.............................#0
------------------------------#0-----------------

m2


Its asking me to complete it so that its a minor second. However I cant draw my note in front of the top note given (not enough room) and I cant draw it directly under it which would cause it to overlap with the F#. So I know that E# to F# is a minor second due to only 1 half step used. But Did i solve this question correctly? Does it matter that it has been written in a descending fashion? Is what Ive given you still a minor 2 and is it what the teacher is looking for?
#20
E# is correct. You just write the note slightly diagonally so that it is touching the original note. I doubt it matters, as long as you put the correct note.
#21
Quote by Jesse Clarkson
E# is correct. You just write the note slightly diagonally so that it is touching the original note. I doubt it matters, as long as you put the correct note.



so it doesnt matter if its descending?