#1
This is probably a really stupid question but I have never understood how learning a scale like the C major scale for example, how does this then show you where else you can play those notes around the rest of the guitar neck. like how does learning the notes in that key in a certain place show you where else you can play those notes. it's something that has stopped me song writing properly because i have never really understood scales fully and I have never really learnt any scales because once I learnt a scale in a certain position I never really found it useful because I could only create something in that place or at least that's how I see things at the moment.
#2
I'm not completely sure what the question is, but I think I know. Take the G major scale for example. the notes are G A B C D E F# G. A G note on a standard tuned gui8tar could by the 3 fret on the E string, but it could also be the 5 fret of the D string, it is an ocatave up, but it is still the same note. This means for G major, you can play the scale starting on the 3 fret on E oryou can start it on the 5 fret of D, or on any G not on the fret board. You are not stuck to one place on the fret board but more or less opened up to a wider availability of positions for the same scale. Hope this helped.
#4
Quote by swampert948
like how does learning the notes in that key in a certain place show you where else you can play those notes.


It doesn't. But you have 2+ octaves at any position in the guitar, and you really shouldn't feel limited by that. As you gain experience, you'll get better at moving around the fretboard - but most of the reason why you move around the fretboard is because it suggests different licks.

I learnt a scale in a certain position I never really found it useful because I could only create something in that place or at least that's how I see things at the moment.


I don't mean this personally but it sounds like you're coming up with an excuse. Learning other positions of a scale (which is relatively easy to do!) opens up more options, but it's more options to play the same notes - especially from a compositional point of view it's not very limiting. (The kind of options we're talking about - the ability to play the same note in the same octave at more than one place - is clearly not very limited otherwise piano players would never be able to compose anything. )

As your ear develops, you'll find it easy to expand beyond one part of the fretboard. But honestly, I don't think learning a scale all over the fretboard is a hugely important task for a relative beginner.
#5
Ah yes but I have been playing for 2 and a half years haha but i just never really understood exactly what to do with scales but now that i know you can just take the root note of the scale anywhere then play the same pattern of notes from there which another postion to play the scale in
#6
well lets say you want to play c somewhere else on the neck. how would you go about this? One way of doing this is to play "modes" although theres alot more to modes then i am going to tell you basically you can start the "C" scale on different not allowing you to playing all the way up and down the neck. you could also play the relative minor scale. for Example in the key of "C", find the six the note. CDEFGABC, The sixth note would be A so the Relative minor of C major is A minor. The notes to in the key of Am are ABCDEFGA Notice C and AM have the same notes? so you could switch back and forth between major and minor in your scale. Be carful with modes as there are major and minor modes so they may not always fit wit the given chord progression but i hope this helps.
#7
Quote by stevosmusic1
well lets say you want to play c somewhere else on the neck. how would you go about this? One way of doing this is to play "modes"


Stop right there! Don't go dragging modes into this.

Simple answer: take the notes of the scale: G A B C D E F#. Find every fret that represents one of those notes on the whole neck. Now you can play the scale on any part of the fretboard.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#8
Quote by stevosmusic1
well lets say you want to play c somewhere else on the neck. how would you go about this? One way of doing this is to play "modes"


Ug. If a guy doesn't understand scales, trying to explain modes to him is a huge mistake.

Modes shouldn't be tackled until you're very comfortable with both the major and minor scales in a variety of contexts.
#9
Quote by soviet_ska
Stop right there! Don't go dragging modes into this.

Simple answer: take the notes of the scale: G A B C D E F#. Find every fret that represents one of those notes on the whole neck. Now you can play the scale on any part of the fretboard.



yeah sorry didn't think about the fact that he wouldnt know this either way your explination isnt great either. What i would suggest is to learn the "patterns" of the major scale. Just google "Patterns of the major scale" it will help in understanding how to play up and down the neck and give you start on modes.
#10
Quote by stevosmusic1
yeah sorry didn't think about the fact that he wouldnt know this either way your explination isnt great either. What i would suggest is to learn the "patterns" of the major scale. Just google "Patterns of the major scale" it will help in understanding how to play up and down the neck and give you start on modes.


But there's absolutely nothing else to it. If he knows the names of the notes on the fretboard and what notes make up a scale, he can play any scale, anytime, anywhere and can completely disregard patterns--not that I suggest eschewing patterns, they are useful, but they shouldn't be the exclusive choice.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#11
Quote by soviet_ska
But there's absolutely nothing else to it. If he knows the names of the notes on the fretboard and what notes make up a scale, he can play any scale, anytime, anywhere and can completely disregard patterns--not that I suggest eschewing patterns, they are useful, but they shouldn't be the exclusive choice.


but assuming by his post that he doesn't full understand scales and cant just figure out the scales from any degree of the scale. thats why im suggesting scale patterns because they make it easier to visuals than finding all the notes of the scale on the fretboard
#12
Quote by stevosmusic1
but assuming by his post that he doesn't full understand scales and cant just figure out the scales from any degree of the scale. thats why im suggesting scale patterns because they make it easier to visuals than finding all the notes of the scale on the fretboard


Then let us agree on this caveat to learning patterns: it must go hand-in-hand with learning the notes on the fretboard and how to construct scales to be the most useful.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#13
Quote by soviet_ska
Then let us agree on this caveat to learning patterns: it must go hand-in-hand with learning the notes on the fretboard and how to construct scales to be the most useful.


Na, you can learn the patterns and learn to hear the relationships.

If your aim is to study music theory, then I agree with you. That you would need to know where the notes are in your chosen instrument is a no brainer. What good is learning that C E G = a C chord, if you can't find those notes on your guitar?


Quote by stevosmusic1
they make it easier to visuals than finding all the notes of the scale on the fretboard


and that ability to visualize the scale ultimately makes it easier to find the notes on your instrument. For example if you know the Major scale pattern, and you understand that for instance the key of C has no sharps or flats, you can start your pattern on C and very easily determine where the notes C, D, E, F,G,A,B are.
Learn all the keys that way, and you'd be in pretty good shape regarding note names/location.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Aug 29, 2011,
#14
Quote by soviet_ska
Then let us agree on this caveat to learning patterns: it must go hand-in-hand with learning the notes on the fretboard and how to construct scales to be the most useful.


I completely agree.
#15
Quote by swampert948
This is probably a really stupid question but I have never understood how learning a scale like the C major scale for example, how does this then show you where else you can play those notes around the rest of the guitar neck. like how does learning the notes in that key in a certain place show you where else you can play those notes. it's something that has stopped me song writing properly because i have never really understood scales fully and I have never really learnt any scales because once I learnt a scale in a certain position I never really found it useful because I could only create something in that place or at least that's how I see things at the moment.


Hey, sounds like you're lost. I'll see if I can help.

1. Learning the notes an the neck and learning scales are two different things.

a. FIRST Learn the notes on the neck - to where you can call any note in 2 seconds or less to have even a semi-functioning skill set - our Academy students are usually able to do it in less than 1 second.

b. ONCE you know the notes, then a scale like C Major becomes a little easier, since you can be playing the string, know the next note in the C Major scale, say it was a D, and then from wherever you are on a guitar neck, you can see the D, and just play it.

The notes on the neck allow you to APPLY a theoretical concept in a meaningful useful time frame, eventually to where you can do it in real time. Many times when I confer in real time with students I'm mentoring, I'll demonstrate the value of real-time knowledge by asking them to Google the notes of any chord, of their choice and by me giving them the answer faster than they can type it in Google -

Me:  Ok name any chord - off the top of your Head.

Them:  Um  G minor 11

Me:  (Less than 2 seconds later)  The notes are G Bb D F A and C

Them:  Wow I didnt even finish typing it into Google.

See, now THATS real-time as a skill set, and I can then using my understanding of the fret board to make use of that information in a meaningful way to construct that chord any way I like like R 5 b7 etc...it doesn't even have to be in a strict intervallic order.

Have you ever considered lessons, or some sort of structured guidance and study? It's clear that you want to learn, but I sense everything is seeming terribly abstract for you at the moment. I do offer free mentoring guidance here as well as teach these kinds of skills, and if you are still lost you are welcome to drop me a PM and I'll do my best to help.

Best,

Sean