#1
So i get the whole concept of a scale and whole tone scale, but I have a problem thats asking to complete the whole tone scale as follows.
(Treble clef)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------#0)--------------------
..................................................................................(##0
----------------------------------------------------##0--------------------------------------------
.................................................##0
----------------------------#0---------------------------------------------------------------------
.......................#0
------#0-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


For a whole tone scale starting on G# would the following be correct? I mean you have got to use all the notes on the staff correct? So in that case the use of double sharps would be required here?


Thoughts?

Another question i have is
(Treble Clef)

...........................................................................................b0
............................................................................--#0--......------
..................................................................#0
-------------------------------------------#0--------------------
..........................................0
------------------------0--------------------------------------------
...............0
----b0---------------------------------------------------------------------
.......................
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


How does this whole tone scale look? I thought you should mix sharps and flats when writing scales so something doesnt look right about it, Especially since its ascending. Should i write it Descending?
Last edited by Go0ber at Aug 29, 2011,
#2
The whole tone scale is not a diatonic scale: write it in the most legible way.
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#4
Quote by soviet_ska
The whole tone scale is not a diatonic scale: write it in the most legible way.



What do you mean, what i wrote is just a serious of notes each a whole tone above, isnt it?
#6
Quote by griffRG7321
I just use the easiest way to write it down, and try not to use double sharps/flats.

What way would that be?
#7
(Treble clef)
............................................................................................................#0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------#0--------------------
.................................................. ................................0
--------------------------------------------0------------------------------------------------------
........................................0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.......................#0
------#0-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So would this look better for my first answer?
#8
Quote by Go0ber
What way would that be?


Whole tone scale on C - C D E F# G# A#

Whole tone scale on C#- C# D# E# Fx Gx Ax

Whole tone scale on Db - Db Eb F G A B


I'd use the Db scale over the C# one just for ease of reading. If you want you could write the scale on C# as C# D# F G A B, I prefer writing them in major seconds though.

Write them the way you feel most comfortable with.
#9
Quote by griffRG7321
Whole tone scale on C - C D E F# G# A#

Whole tone scale on C#- C# D# E# Fx Gx Ax

Whole tone scale on Db - Db Eb F G A B


I'd use the Db scale over the C# one just for ease of reading. If you want you could write the scale on C# as C# D# F G A B, I prefer writing them in major seconds though.

Write them the way you feel most comfortable with.



So what would you write for the examples im asking for?

Whole tone scale starting on G# ?

Whole tone scale starting on B flat ?

And there is some type of rule like the major scale that requires you to have 7 or 8 notes. Or all notes in a octave?
Last edited by Go0ber at Aug 29, 2011,
#10
Quote by Go0ber
So what would you write for the examples im asking for?

Whole tone scale starting on G# ?

Whole tone scale starting on B flat ?

And there is some type of rule like the major scale that requires you to have 7 or 8 notes. Or all notes in a octave?


G# A# B# Cx Dx Ex

G# A# C D E F#

Ab Bb C D E F#

Either of those would be acceptable, although I wouldn't use the first one.

Bb C D E F# G#

No rules, just common sense.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Aug 29, 2011,
#11
Quote by griffRG7321
G# A# B# Cx Dx Ex

G# A# C D E F#

Ab Bb C D E F#

Either of those would be acceptable, although I wouldn't use the first one.

Bb C D E F# G#

No rules, just common sense.



So when notating scales it doesnt matter if you use a mixture of flats and sharps? I thought this was a big no no. And
#12
Quote by Go0ber
So when notating scales it doesnt matter if you use a mixture of flats and sharps? I thought this was a big no no. And


For diatonic scales, you only use one or the other.

For music without a tonal center, it doesn't really matter. If you want to take that route then write it Bb C D E Gb Ab.
#13
I would notate them as one per letter for organization sake and to indicate a different letter per degree - That's not the only way to do it and yes you'd definitely be in X territory.

If in doubt as your instructor, as this should have been specified or at least demonstrated in a non specific manner.

Best,

Sean
#15
Just as a side note, it is common for players who are looking to do something interesting to get into exotic and symmetrical scales like this without having much of an idea of how to use them. I can vouch for this myself. I discovered whole tone and octatonic scales years ago, but couldn't figure out how to use them other than as something weird to pull out by itself to impress my friends.

I think you'll find that the main usage of the wholetone scale is for transitions into other keys and something that can be forced over altered chords in jazz (particularly dominant 7 b5's and #5's). Otherwise, it is pretty limiting by itself. It could be interesting to try to compose an entire piece using wholetone scales, but by its very nature it wouldn't go anywhere.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Aug 30, 2011,
#16
Quote by Brainpolice2
I think you'll find that the main usage of the wholetone scale is for transitions into other keys and something that can be forced over altered chords in jazz (particularly dominant 7 b5's and #5's). Otherwise, it is pretty limiting by itself. It could be interesting to try to compose an entire piece using wholetone scales, but by its very nature it wouldn't go anywhere.

I've done it a couple times just on the fly. It's quite easy to create some good movement in the "progression" with good rhythm and voicings. It's very hard, however, to get it to stop and want to resolve. Cause it doesn't It just wants to continue.

But with octatonic scales it's easy to find a resolution somewhere.
#17
It's pretty fun to play cuz you can move all your shapes around in 2 fret increments without having to worry about refingering anything.

Something that Guthrie Govan mentioned is that if you experiment with this scale using a clean tone and lots of reverb, the results may well remind you of piano music by the likes of Debussy, Ravel and Satie.
#18
Quote by DiminishedFifth
I've done it a couple times just on the fly. It's quite easy to create some good movement in the "progression" with good rhythm and voicings. It's very hard, however, to get it to stop and want to resolve. Cause it doesn't It just wants to continue.

But with octatonic scales it's easy to find a resolution somewhere.


I think that much more can be done with octatonic, because there are 8 notes and it isn't as "purely symmetrical" as whole tone. You can pick out tons of different chords from octatonic: major triad, minor triad, diminished triad, diminished 7, dominant 7, and tons of altered dominants. With whole tone, you basically have augmented chords, dominant 7 b5, and dominant 7 #5. Beyond that, you have to work with clusters (which can be interesting).
#21
Quote by Go0ber
So when notating scales it doesnt matter if you use a mixture of flats and sharps? I thought this was a big no no. And


Quote by griffRG7321
For diatonic scales, you only use one or the other.

For music without a tonal center, it doesn't really matter. If you want to take that route then write it Bb C D E Gb Ab.


This.

Just like if you were figuring out the harmonic minor scale from a minor scale that uses flats, you still sharp the 7, ie. D harm. minor - D E F G A Bb C#
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