#1
Hello, I have a band where there's four people, me, the other guitarist, call him X, the singer, call him Y, and the drummer, Z. Now occasionally X will sing a song and Y will play guitar. We have one song so far, and there may be others, where Y also wants to play guitar in the song and sing, so there are three guitarists.

Y and I wrote a song with that idea in mind, and it's a hardcore/punk type song, and I wrote a pretty cool solo for it. I figured out the main idea of most of the chords I go through in the solo and wrote up a rhythm part for it. It's literally just straight eighth note powerchords, but there are 4 or 5 2-4 measure segments that don't repeat, it's an ABCDE format. It's damn easy, but Y keeps claiming that we shouldn't do that because it doesn't sound 'hardcore', and he just wants to play 2-3 chords in the background. We played through it his way and it sounded very off, as a lot of the chords didn't match up.

Y keeps saying he won't remember how to play it and it's too technical (lol) but I told him that's what actually practicing is for. I wrote another song yesterday that had a similar constructed rhythm part, and with the solo going on top of it, it harmonized well and really sounded interesting.

Now me, X, and Z are all at mostly the same musical level. We're all able to handle crazier stuff and we can talk in musical terms, and X can definitely handle the rhythm parts I've made with ease. However, Y is claiming that we shouldn't be all technical all the time, and it's about the music and the 'art' (I love him like a bro but he's just one of those 'I don't really need to learn anything' kind of guys)

How do we, for lack of a better word, make him play the parts we want? He's gotten his way on quite a few things before as well, so it's not like we're giving him no say in anything. And how should we deal with things like this in the future?
Quote by willT08
Quote by HowSoonisNow
How was Confucius death metal?
You've clearly never read any Confuscius.

As I wait on the edge of the earth,
I can see the walls being torn down again
Only to be rebuilt in another name,
On a different day
#3
Tell him to suck it up and either just sing or learn the parts.

EDIT: No bassist?
Last edited by conor-figgy at Sep 1, 2011,
#4
tell him that he gets his a lot and that he should either practise the solo or let you play it, because if you spent your time writing it it deserves to be in the song, he can play the rest and he can play rhythm in the background of the solo. remember to tell him like a bro so he doesnt feel like you dont want him but make sure youre "telling" him not "asking" him
#6
Tell him to either play it right or don't play it. You guys have three guitarists, surely you can make that song sound good with the other two?

Or just keep telling him to play it right, but I know guys who really don't like to practice so don't count on that unless he somehow gets really excited about the song.

Quote by emad
jthm_guitarist
Warned for trolling!


Quote by metal4eva_22
Didn't you say that you had a stuffed fox that you would occasionally fuck?

Quote by Axelfox
It's not a fox,it's a wolf.
#7
Quote by itamar101
tell him that he gets his a lot and that he should either practise the solo or let you play it, because if you spent your time writing it it deserves to be in the song, he can play the rest and he can play rhythm in the background of the solo. remember to tell him like a bro so he doesnt feel like you dont want him but make sure youre "telling" him not "asking" him


He can't do the solo. He just can't. He's not skilled enough. But yeah, he and the other guitarist will handle the rhythm part, I'll tell him that. The other guitarist and the drummer think it sounds really good too, so they agree with me.

One example of him getting his way: I wrote a really good shuffle song that sounds a little bit southern rock/country style, and he decided he would just go ahead and say we aren't playing it the way I wrote it, and changed it. He says we need a 'fist pumping, stomping, rock and roll song, not a country song' even though we already have a great song for that.
Quote by willT08
Quote by HowSoonisNow
How was Confucius death metal?
You've clearly never read any Confuscius.

As I wait on the edge of the earth,
I can see the walls being torn down again
Only to be rebuilt in another name,
On a different day
#8
Tell him that if he wants to play guitar, he has to learn those parts, otherwise those parts will be played by someone who can (X)
Quote by the_white_bunny
the point of life is to die.
and pay taxes.


Quote by /PurpleWhalez/
Blasphemy as severe as this is fucking unforgivable and by bullshito code you must commit sudoku for disgracing famirys honoru.
#9
Quote by conor-figgy
Tell him to suck it up and either just sing or learn the parts.

EDIT: No bassist?


No bassist. The guitarist and I really complement each other and we rarely have one of us play bass. We're also a quartet and we're all great friends, and nobody else really seems to fit with us, in this band at least. We want to keep it as a 4 man band if possible. That may change later on though.

Quote by hr113
Tell him that if he wants to play guitar, he has to learn those parts, otherwise those parts will be played by someone who can (X)


I am when I see him at practice Saturday.
Quote by willT08
Quote by HowSoonisNow
How was Confucius death metal?
You've clearly never read any Confuscius.

As I wait on the edge of the earth,
I can see the walls being torn down again
Only to be rebuilt in another name,
On a different day
#10
Quote by thePTOD
We played through it his way and it sounded very off, as a lot of the chords didn't match up.


Point this out to him. Explain to him that he's welcome to write his own music, which you guys will embrace as a band, but this song doesn't work like that.


However, Y is claiming that we shouldn't be all technical all the time, and it's about the music and the 'art' (I love him like a bro but he's just one of those 'I don't really need to learn anything' kind of guys)


My response to this attitude is that it's not the "music" and the "art" if you aren't making a choice to play it a certain way. If you're playing a certain way because that's the most complicated thing you can play, then you're still being "technical." You're just being technical and limited.

eg, all of the famous abstract modern painters could paint something realistic if they wanted. Picasso and Van Gogh and all those guys - if they wanted to paint something extremely realistic, they could.

I think part of the solution is to encourage him to bring in some of his own song ideas, and develop them the way he wants to develop them, where you guys are committed to developing his version of the song. In exchange for that, he has to reciprocate and accept that some songs are going to be more complicated, and he can either get on the bus and do the work to be able to play them, or you find a way to do it with two guitars.
#11
Quote by HotspurJr
Point this out to him. Explain to him that he's welcome to write his own music, which you guys will embrace as a band, but this song doesn't work like that.


My response to this attitude is that it's not the "music" and the "art" if you aren't making a choice to play it a certain way. If you're playing a certain way because that's the most complicated thing you can play, then you're still being "technical." You're just being technical and limited.

eg, all of the famous abstract modern painters could paint something realistic if they wanted. Picasso and Van Gogh and all those guys - if they wanted to paint something extremely realistic, they could.

I think part of the solution is to encourage him to bring in some of his own song ideas, and develop them the way he wants to develop them, where you guys are committed to developing his version of the song. In exchange for that, he has to reciprocate and accept that some songs are going to be more complicated, and he can either get on the bus and do the work to be able to play them, or you find a way to do it with two guitars.


Right, I tried pointing out that his part didn't work because of the theoretical aspects of it, but I'll be a bit more in depth this weekend.

And he likes to say that I seem to be very technical and sometimes he says things to me as if I'm a know it all and I don't care about emotion or 'the real music'. He uses the 'I play for the music and make it about the art' as an excuse to just play G D C on an acoustic guitar over and over, and as an excuse to not learn anything. The thing is, everything in music is technical in some way, he just doesn't really get that. He'll sometimes diss when bands do that but he does exactly what he claims to not like.

And somehow me working for years to learn my theory and practice every day to learn new ways to make more complicated and more emotional and interesting music makes me a technical and pretentious robot. I can play things that are intricate and things that are simple, but either way I actually know what I'm doing and know how to make it work. He even acts annoyed when I'm talking about a riff and say 'Okay well this riff you made is in A Major with a D# accidental... Maybe if in the bridge I made it modulate to E Major it'd sound interesting...' or something, and says we don't all need to know this stuff, even when I explain to him what I'm doing even if it's really simple. Sorry for the rant.
Quote by willT08
Quote by HowSoonisNow
How was Confucius death metal?
You've clearly never read any Confuscius.

As I wait on the edge of the earth,
I can see the walls being torn down again
Only to be rebuilt in another name,
On a different day
#12
Sounds like a bit of a douche, but then again, it's not like singers are known for being low-ego.

You can dumb down how you talk about it. You don't need to explain the theory to him - you can just say, "That doesn't work." Obviously, I'm big on positive communication, but the real problem here is not that there's a theoretical reason that what he wants to do doesn't work, it's that it sounds lame.

And the next time he called me pretentious, I'd say, "No, I'm competent because I'm not afraid to learn and improve and figure out how to play more interesting things. You're the one hiding behind the word "art" - so who's the one being pretentious?"
#13
Did you just use Musician Algebra on us? lol
Originally Posted by [Yamdiddle]

plugging my own wang into an amp and touching myself in front of millions of people, live!
#14
Quote by thePTOD
No bassist. The guitarist and I really complement each other and we rarely have one of us play bass. We're also a quartet and we're all great friends, and nobody else really seems to fit with us, in this band at least. We want to keep it as a 4 man band if possible. That may change later on though.

have Y play bass?
Quote by pedromiles101
you're not gonna want to take a dump in a gross, off-colored, vintage toilet. you want something that is white and pearly; something that shines. something that you can put your cheeks against and say, "f*** yeah"
#16
Quote by randomhero93
have Y play bass?


Do this at the very least. Bass is possibly the most important live instrument.

For the rhythm guitarist, burn him with a cigarette every time he messes up. Classical conditioning is the proper motivation for him to improve his repertoire, as with any lab mouse that plays guitar.
modes are a social construct
#17
Quote by Hail
Do this at the very least. Bass is possibly the most important live instrument.

For the rhythm guitarist, burn him with a cigarette every time he messes up. Classical conditioning is the proper motivation for him to improve his repertoire, as with any lab mouse that plays guitar.


give'em coke when he gets it right aswell.
Guitars:
LTD Alexi-600 White & Black
LTD Alexi-200 Black(Death Adder pickup & Gold OFR)
Agile Interceptor Pro 727 7-string
Jackson JS30RR rhoads
Jackson DKMGT
Squire telecaster

amps:
Bugera 6262 212 loaded with WGS veteran 30's
#19
Quote by HotspurJr
eg, all of the famous abstract modern painters could paint something realistic if they wanted. Picasso and Van Gogh and all those guys - if they wanted to paint something extremely realistic, they could.


Picasso was a bamf. Even when he did his abstract stuff it would start with a realistic image.
Then he'd **** it up. In the best way possible.
Fender 72' Deluxe Tele
Schecter Damian Elite 7
Fender '62 Reissue Jazz Bass (MIJ)
Peavey XXX 212 (back on the East Coast)

Macbook Pro 15" Retina
Logic Pro X 10.0.7
Revalver 4
LePou Amp Sims
Ignite Amp Sims
LeCab2
RedWirez Impulses
#20
Ok, I'm gonna have to ask this and not just because I'm a bass player, but why the hell you'd rather have 3 guitars then 2 guitars and a bass? you are missing out on having a lot more low end, and running the risk of muddying up the mids... and it's pretty damn hard to see a good 3 guitar arrangement, where 2 of them do more than double each other in thirds or fifths, or just play the same thing...
#21
We didn't choose not to have a bassist. We're actually working on getting one right now. We have 2 guitars generally, and our singer likes playing guitar sometimes.
Quote by willT08
Quote by HowSoonisNow
How was Confucius death metal?
You've clearly never read any Confuscius.

As I wait on the edge of the earth,
I can see the walls being torn down again
Only to be rebuilt in another name,
On a different day