#2
Some cool sounds in there, think the first thing to strike me is that with a rhythm as syncopated as that you could really do with bringing up the volume of the kick and snare in the mix (particularly the kick, which I think you could lose some low end on, and really boost the 2k-4k area for more definition). I'd go as far as to say the kick is felt more than heard in your mix, which is more of an older rock/pop thing than modern heavier music. Also, a little automation on the overheads would help bring out things like the stick hits on the ride early on as the song goes from the heavier bit to the clean section.

Also, my ears might be tricking me but the kick sounds like it's a little lost under reverb, though could just be denseness of the mix causing me problems picking it out.

The lead guitar tone (and playing!) is nice, definitely a strong part of the song, though parts sound influenced by the aspect of Petrucci I'm not so keen on (his scale runs that seem too long to be melodic, for my taste) but other than that some very solid playing and note choice in there

Think it's a pretty good mix, but it has a sense of density/verging on muddiness that is hard to pick out but I'd hazard a guess that you can lose some low end on the less 'bassy' instruments, and add a bit of presence to the whole mix with a boost to the very high end (7.5-8kHz shelving filter perhaps, raising everything beyond by like 2-3dB?).

Not my typical cup of tea music-wise, but it didn't sound too far off from some of the Dream Theater stuff I have (minus the vocals of course), if that's what you're aiming for! Only thing letting yours down is that the DT mixes tend to be incredibly detailed and clear, to let all the instruments shine through (in fact, Metropolis Part 1 is one of my mix refernce tracks, for the clarity of all instruments) and obviously it's hard to compete with.

You're definitely getting there if that's what you were going for though - just gotta find that last 5-10% that separates the bigger productions out from yours and most of us here.

Edit: On second listen through, think the bass could do with some compression, as it's only really audible as bass during certain notes (and I'm fairly used to my listening environment, I think, to know it isn't just my room - at least I hope ) so if you tried to level out the bass a little it would probably allow you to make things clearer. Also, thinking back to DT mixes, I seem to remember the guitars are quite thin when you hear them on their own despite the sensation of a 'full, rich sound' when in the mix, so maybe cut some of the lows - low mids from the hard-panned guitars to leave more of the low end in the centre?
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Sep 8, 2011,
#3
Thanks a lot !

I always appreciate the fact you take the time to listen and make attention to details.
Your posts are one of the reasons I am improving. Very grateful for that.


Yes, it was definitely influenced by Dream Theater, I took them as a reference.
For bass, I'm using midi bass so I tend to hide it a little bit, and give it the boomy aspect instead of the clarity.

As for the kick, I used reverb. You are totally right about it. Also, I am upraging Saturday to Superior Drummer 2 : the Metal Foundry. Hopefully that will take my drumming sounds to a higher level.
What I used for Snare/ Kicks, is that I actually used parallel compression on them. I don't think I can do anything anymore.


Edit :

For the guitars, I don't have a center guitar. Only left/right pans

Also, I tried your trick for scooping the bass/low mid ( high passing at 400 hz), and compressed the bass. Sounds great to be honest ! Definitely a strategy to take into consideration next time
The symphonizer
Last edited by Sympho at Sep 8, 2011,
#4
Besides what Goliath mentioned about the overall brightness, I think it's a pretty well balanced mix overall.

There's only so much you can do with midi bass and DFH. For your kick I'd recommend scooping a pretty big chunk of the mids out at around 500hz with a pretty wide Q. This will eliminate the flabbiness and give you a much more metal kick sound; all you really need is thud and click.

Lately for my drum processing I've been cranking my room mic for a more natural reverb and then high passing out the kick so my blended kick sample/close mic is the majority of the kick sound. If you then parallel compress the whole drum buss it ends up sounding ****ing massive but well defined at the same time.
#5
Thanks mate for checking!

Quote by Odirunn

There's only so much you can do with midi bass and DFH. For your kick I'd recommend scooping a pretty big chunk of the mids out at around 500hz with a pretty wide Q. This will eliminate the flabbiness and give you a much more metal kick sound; all you really need is thud and click.


That's what I basically did with the kick :

Boosted 100 Hz, half wide Q , high passed at 20 Hz, removed the mids, and boosted the 3-4 k

Also, I can't use your technique, as I'm using headsets and not monitors !


N.B : Wouldn't I solve the brightness problem with mastering ?
The symphonizer
Last edited by Sympho at Sep 8, 2011,
#6
I mean the room mic on the drum kit, like the one in the DFH mixer! I don't actually mic my monitors haha.

Personally I try to do as little EQing as possible in my mastering stage (which is really just pseudo-mastering and more like mixing on the 2 buss) and take care of things like brightness while mixing. Either way would work tho, high shelf on your master or brightening the rhythm guitars and cymbals individually.
#7
Lol my bad !

I tend to not touch the DFH mixer settings. Used to modify them back then, had pretty bad results. All my hopes are on Superior at the moment.

I resolved the kick problem, by sending it to another bus, cutting the lows/ mids and boosting the highs kick frequencies. Gave it clarity.


Also, I am mastering it now.
I figured out it would only need some louder maximizer/ bit of eq ( to boost a little bit 10k hz and top )/ multiband compression/ stereo widener.

It doesn't need reverb/harmonic exciters imo.
The symphonizer
#9
Quote by Sympho
http://soundcloud.com/pman001/pat-prog-master

this is the mastered version

Sounding better definitely. I'd suggest adding a little bit more (yep, even more) 'click' to the kick, and/or bringing the volume of the kick and snare up in the mix (literally just bring the fader for the kick and snare up) as they're getting there but still a little quiet for my liking.

It also struck me, now the guitars are tighter with the bass, that at the beginning part of the 'veiling' blanket of sound could be that the keyboards/synths are competing with the rest of the mix but should be a background effect that is audible but not distracting. To sort this, I suggest boosting the highs and/or dipping the low/low mids of the synth tracks playing at the start, so they stand out but aren't muddying things up.

Other than that, only possible things are maybe automate the lead guitar to be louder when it first comes in after the clean bit builds up. Sounding very good now, especially the latter parts of the mix!


Thanks a lot !

I always appreciate the fact you take the time to listen and make attention to details.
Your posts are one of the reasons I am improving. Very grateful for that.

Not a problem mate, glad there's at least some people on here willing to listen to my ramblings
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#10
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Sounding better definitely. I'd suggest adding a little bit more (yep, even more) 'click' to the kick, and/or bringing the volume of the kick and snare up in the mix (literally just bring the fader for the kick and snare up) as they're getting there but still a little quiet for my liking.

It also struck me, now the guitars are tighter with the bass, that at the beginning part of the 'veiling' blanket of sound could be that the keyboards/synths are competing with the rest of the mix but should be a background effect that is audible but not distracting. To sort this, I suggest boosting the highs and/or dipping the low/low mids of the synth tracks playing at the start, so they stand out but aren't muddying things up.

Other than that, only possible things are maybe automate the lead guitar to be louder when it first comes in after the clean bit builds up. Sounding very good now, especially the latter parts of the mix!


Not a problem mate, glad there's at least some people on here willing to listen to my ramblings



Thanks a lot buddy !

And definitely, your ramblings are always helpful ! haha


I'll try removing a lot of low on the keys
The symphonizer