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#1
I'm completely rebuilding my Jackson DKMG and I need a Floyd. I was originally considering getting a Gotoh LFR, but they are way over priced now, so that's out of the question. I was browsing eBay when I found this. I didn't realize Schaller made Jackson Floyds. Does anyone know how they compare to an OFR? It would be cool to have a trem in there that says Jackson on it if it's worth a damn. I'm trying to do what will work and save money.

If it's not as good as the OFR or the Schaller LFR, that's cool, I'll keep looking. I'm also considering buying a used ZR, but that will likely require routing and may look funky.
#2
That just looks like a used stock jackson floyd. Just drop the cash for a real OFR. You won't regret it.
#3
the high end Jackson models do have excellent trems and the Jackson LFR is known to be one of the better ones. this is the high end one though. obviously the ones used on cheaper models aren't going to be as good.
#4
That is the Schaller licensed Floyd. IMO it is a better trem than the OFR. I have had a bunch of both. The Schaller is beefier and has a better feel IMO. The one on my 20 year old Dinky still works as new. When building my Warmoth I chose to use the Schaller over the OFR as well. Also Caparison uses Schaller on all of their guitars. However the one thing you might want to think about is that I believe the licensed unit on your Jackson is about the same size as the OFR. The string locks on the Schaller are shorter and beefier. So you will have space in the route behind the locks and the locks from the OFR do not interchange.
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Last edited by yellowv at Sep 8, 2011,
#5
I don't think that a schaller would have jackson written on it, but I really don't know anything about trems
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#6
Jackson used Schaller for that particular model. I've read various things on the internet about it, it seems they used zinc for the base plate and supposedly the knife edges don't hold up as well as an OFR. But then I hear stuff about people using them for 20 years with no problem, so I don't know. If the base plate is zinc, that's gonna be a problem because an OFR is steel and that's what I want.

I just don't want to pay full price for an OFR or Schaller LFR when I know Gotoh makes once that's easily comparable and has better features. But it seems there's a Gotoh shortage because all of the usual low priced sellers are out and everyone else is asking way too much.

It's looking like it may come down to Schaller vs OFR though, or rather, which ever I can get cheaper.
#7
Quote by W4RP1G
Jackson used Schaller for that particular model. I've read various things on the internet about it, it seems they used zinc for the base plate and supposedly the knife edges don't hold up as well as an OFR. But then I hear stuff about people using them for 20 years with no problem, so I don't know. If the base plate is zinc, that's gonna be a problem because an OFR is steel and that's what I want.

I just don't want to pay full price for an OFR or Schaller LFR when I know Gotoh makes once that's easily comparable and has better features. But it seems there's a Gotoh shortage because all of the usual low priced sellers are out and everyone else is asking way too much.

It's looking like it may come down to Schaller vs OFR though, or rather, which ever I can get cheaper.


i can tell you tha tthe 20 year old ones didn't use zinc they were steel. this is important as the zinc ones will wear out faster. see if you can find out the specs before buying.
#8
Quote by monwobobbo
i can tell you tha tthe 20 year old ones didn't use zinc they were steel. this is important as the zinc ones will wear out faster. see if you can find out the specs before buying.

I've been reading up on it. Those may be the JT570 or JT580, both of which used steel base plates.

Honestly, the more I read about the Jackson trem and how hit and miss they are, the more I just want to get an OFR. I'm still down to get a ZR though, it will just be some work making it fit.
#10
^ nice link Think i've seen it before, but that saves me from having to look for it again

and yeah... for all the difference in price (ofr is $180, right?), i'd rather swing for an ofr or schaller-branded version.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ nice link Think i've seen it before, but that saves me from having to look for it again

and yeah... for all the difference in price (ofr is $180, right?), i'd rather swing for an ofr or schaller-branded version.

Stewmac has a Schaller Floyd for $160. Are they really as good as an OFR, because from what I can tell, the OFR used a solid base plate for the knife edge(same as the gotoh), while the Schaller version uses inserts?

I'll probably go with the schaller since my Ibanez LoPro used inserts and it's awesome.
#12
generally speaking, i've only heard good things about Schaller trems - except for that JT-590.

FWIW - i believe the DKMG comes with a JT580LP. i have a '03 JS30DK and a '05 DK2 with that trem and it's been rock solid on both. are you having issues with yours?
#13
I don't have the original trem, I bought the neck and body on eBay about a year ago. I was originally going to throw the spare parts I have lying around in it and play, but I got an Ibanez Prestige shortly after, so I didn't mess with it.
#14
Schaller has put many companies name on the baseplate. Jackson, Charvel, Washburn, ect. On the little box by the trem are it says "made in Germany by Schaller". JT-590 is just the model number Jackson uses for the trem. It is the same as any other Schaller trem. The only difference from older Schaller and new ones is that they use the inserts in the baseplate now. It is an improvement, but as I said I have a 20 year old Schaller that still works just fine.
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#15
Quote by W4RP1G
Stewmac has a Schaller Floyd for $160. Are they really as good as an OFR, because from what I can tell, the OFR used a solid base plate for the knife edge(same as the gotoh), while the Schaller version uses inserts?

I'll probably go with the schaller since my Ibanez LoPro used inserts and it's awesome.


no idea, i haven't used a schaller long enough to know

They're meant to be pretty good, but like most things, you hear conflicting reports...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
I heard that Schaller make the OFRs for Floyd Rose anyway. That sort of thing is pretty common like Gotoh and Wilkinson make lots of hardware together too and for other companies and Schaller make some pieces for Fender who own Jackson. So it's probably all the same thing.
#17
oh yeah, schaller makes the ofr. just the schaller floyd (and they have a new one out recently, the lockmeister or something like that, haven't tried it) isn't exactly the same as the ofr (inserts versus the entire hardened steel baseplate of the ofr), so...



but yeah i mean i'm guessing the schaller-branded one is still good. from what little i've tried of one it felt pretty pleasant and felt like a "good" floyd.

could be wrong, of course. that was just from mucking about in a shop on one on a caparison
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
Schaller branded trems are made out of compressed powdered metal in moulds and then have inserts pressed in. The OFR trems they make are machined from a block of steel, which is why they tend to be more durable. You can see the difference when you look at the two as the Schallers have a rough, textured looking finish while OFRs are smooth.
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#19
but does that make any difference to them in use? (serious question)

I mean, it's the knife edge (by and large) where the trouble occurs... if it's made of hardened steel, whether an insert or the whole baseplate, that's the main thing, surely?

Or does it make a difference?

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
I figure it would make a difference tone-wise, as well as it's reliability when dealing with intonation screws and whatnot. I'd rather have an intonation screw head strip out than the base plate any day of the week.
#21
Usually the things that go bad on a licensed Floyd are the knife edges, and even then it may take a number of years before you notice it.
Just make 100% sure not to adjust the bridge height under tension - that's how 90% of stories about bad tremolo systems start.

In terms of tone, I personally wouldn't worry about the bridge material. In my experience, it makes an almost negligible difference.

Jackson's high-end licensed Floyds are on par with OFR Floyds, for the most part. There will be exceptions.
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Last edited by PsiGuy60 at Sep 9, 2011,
#22
^ i've only tried the jt580lp, but i always thought they sucked

Quote by W4RP1G
I figure it would make a difference tone-wise, as well as it's reliability when dealing with intonation screws and whatnot. I'd rather have an intonation screw head strip out than the base plate any day of the week.


yeah, that's what i thought too.

don't the edge/lo pro/edge pro only have the hardened steel inserts, too?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ i've only tried the jt580lp, but i always thought they sucked


yeah, that's what i thought too.

don't the edge/lo pro/edge pro only have the hardened steel inserts, too?

Yep. The thing is, Gotoh makes those tremolos to Ibanez standards. Their own LFR looks to be far superior with a solid steel base plate(no inserts), and a huge brass sustain block. Have you seen the blocks in the Ibanez tremolos? They are tiny and pot metal.

As far as I can tell, Gotoh knows what they are doing more than any other manufacturer. They made locking studs their standard as well. The next best thing I can see to a Gotoh LFR would be an OFR because it has a solid steel base, but it lacks the big sustain block and locking studs.

I'm probably going to wait a bit and see if anyone gets more of the Gotoh trems in. They seems to be the best way to go.
#24
yeah that's what always concerns me about the edge etc. i have a gotoh and yeah the block is sweet.

the ofr has a pretty decent block too, i think (though maybe not quite so big as a gotoh, though if that's your main concern, you can buy replacement blocks which are bigger than the gotoh one, too).

I think the ofr sounds a little brighter. so that might be worth bearing in mind depending on the tone you're after.

also, i think the ofr springs are a bit slacker. or at least (in my limited experience) the ofr is more responsive, while the gotoh is tighter-feeling. just depends on what you prefer.

the arm-connecting mechanism of the gotoh is awesome, though, compared to the ofr.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
I'm definitely going to go with the Gotoh. The question is, do I get it now and pay nearly $190, or wait an hope the cheaper stores get them in again?
#26
The jt590 afaik is a schaller which will be good.
All other jackson licensed floyds are generally complete garbage.
#27
Quote by coolstoryangus
The jt590 afaik is a schaller which will be good.
All other jackson licensed floyds are generally complete garbage.


That's a bit unfair.

The JT580LPs that they use on a lot of their current import models are pretty solid. They're not as responsive as an OFR/Schaller/Gotoh, but they hold tuning rock steady, which is the most pressing problem with a lot of cheap floyds.

They may not be the greatest, but they're no Edge 3.

Also, many of the older JT580s are Takeuchi made, and as with everything that comes out of Japan, they were pretty good.
#28
The Schaller's tend to have a bit warmer tone due to the thicker, heavier baseplate. The knife edges are hardened and last forever just like the OFR.
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#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ i've only tried the jt580lp, but i always thought they sucked


umm... yea... i'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you again, m'kay?
#30
^ any i've tried have just been horribly clunky...

Quote by W4RP1G
I'm definitely going to go with the Gotoh. The question is, do I get it now and pay nearly $190, or wait an hope the cheaper stores get them in again?


i'd wait but i guess it depends on how quickly you need it

Quote by Confuse-a-Cat

Also, many of the older JT580s are Takeuchi made, and as with everything that comes out of Japan, they were pretty good.


i dunno, my lo-trs is takeuchi and it's not great.

though admittedly i might have screwed it by adjusting it under tension
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#31
Ok, so I took a chance and offered $60 on a Jackson Takeuchi JT580 and it got accepted, so I guess I'll be trying it out. If it sucks and sharpening doesn't help, it'll go back up on eBay.

I've done a lot of research and heard a lot of mixed reviews. It seems most people that say anything bad about the Takeuchi JT580 haven't actually tried it, they've only tried the Lo TRS, which is supposedly an similar tremolo.

I like trying new stuff out for myself, and this one has sparked my interest. Thanks everyone for the recommendations!
#32
no worries, let us know what it's like
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
Alright. If it sucks, I'll probably resurrect this thread and let everyone know. If not, I may just wait until the whole guitar is finished and give my custom NGD thread full review of it.
#34
Hopefully it works for you. My son has that bridge on his 90's Yamaha. No complaints on it.

Though his is not the Jackson branded JT580 - his is the Takeuchi branded TRS-101... same thing.
#35
Quote by Confuse-a-Cat
That's a bit unfair.

The JT580LPs that they use on a lot of their current import models are pretty solid. They're not as responsive as an OFR/Schaller/Gotoh, but they hold tuning rock steady, which is the most pressing problem with a lot of cheap floyds.

They may not be the greatest, but they're no Edge 3.

Also, many of the older JT580s are Takeuchi made, and as with everything that comes out of Japan, they were pretty good.

dk2m is a pretty new import model thought the trem was utter rubbish..
#36
the DK2M has been around for a while... and there isn't a damn thing wrong with the stock trem.

I love how every time I read somebody trash a Jackson trem, I look at their profile and see they have 2 or 3 Ibanez guitars...
#37
Quote by coolstoryangus
dk2m is a pretty new import model thought the trem was utter rubbish..


I have a DK2M, and the JT580LP on mine is just fine. It holds tune for weeks. Like I said, it's not very responsive (so I can't flutter very well for example) but it's a solid unit.
#38
^ but not fluttering means it's a crap trem! jeez.

I mean i don't know about you, but i buy a floyd guitar to do all those tricks. I mean I don't buy it to look at it and stroke my chin and say, "ah, but it holds tuning well!" If it doesn't do those tricks it's like buying a pair of running shoes that you can't run in. If someone turned round and then said, "Ah, but you're wrong, they're still good running shoes because, although you can't run in them, they're very waterproof!", you'd think that person was an idiot, right?

^^ i have a bunch of guitars with good trems. The jackson one, in my experience anyway, just wasn't much good. I felt like i needed to jump on it to do what i wanted. compare that to an OFR which'll flutter for about 5 seconds if you look at it funny.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 12, 2011,
#39
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ but not fluttering means it's a crap trem! jeez.

I mean i don't know about you, but i buy a floyd guitar to do all those tricks. I mean I don't buy it to look at it and stroke my chin and say, "ah, but it holds tuning well!" If it doesn't do those tricks it's like buying a pair of running shoes that you can't run in. If someone turned round and then said, "Ah, but you're wrong, they're still good running shoes because, although you can't run in them, they're very waterproof!", you'd think that person was an idiot, right?

^^ i have a bunch of guitars with good trems. The jackson one, in my experience anyway, just wasn't much good. I felt like i needed to jump on it to do what i wanted. compare that to an OFR which'll flutter for about 5 seconds if you look at it funny.

The OFR is great for fluttering, as is the LoPro in my Ibby. It's true that you can tell a good trem by it's ability to flutter. But then again, my Ibby with a ZR kinda sucks at fluttering, even with the ZPS removed, and there's no way I could ever call that a bad trem.

Holding it's tune is definitely the single most important factor in a floating trem. Fluttering could probably be second, but some people might place profile as second. I think trems that flutter feel smoother when using them, like it takes no effort to do anything. But the ZR is built rock solid. It's like comparing a fast sports car with a super reliable utility vehicle.
#40
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ but not fluttering means it's a crap trem! jeez.

I mean i don't know about you, but i buy a floyd guitar to do all those tricks. I mean I don't buy it to look at it and stroke my chin and say, "ah, but it holds tuning well!" If it doesn't do those tricks it's like buying a pair of running shoes that you can't run in. If someone turned round and then said, "Ah, but you're wrong, they're still good running shoes because, although you can't run in them, they're very waterproof!", you'd think that person was an idiot, right?

^^ i have a bunch of guitars with good trems. The jackson one, in my experience anyway, just wasn't much good. I felt like i needed to jump on it to do what i wanted. compare that to an OFR which'll flutter for about 5 seconds if you look at it funny.


I don't really care about those tricks. It'll dive, it'll pull up, I like how it feels under my palm, and it holds its tuning for ages. I'm happy with that.

Of course it's not going to be as good as an Original. It's cheaper for a reason. I'm not trying to claim that it's a fantastic unit, but i'd reserve the description of crap for something that went out of tune within five minutes. There are Floyd units like that out there, and the JT580LP isn't one of them.

I consider tuning stability to be the most important factor in a cheaper Floyd Unit. In expensive units, that tends to be taken for granted. In LFRs around this price point, not so much.

To use your analogy there, running shoes will still work perfectly fine if they're not waterproof. But, I'm sure you wouldn't like to play with a Floyd that detuned itself every time you used it.

Besides, I never could understand why people run willingly.
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