#1
Sorry for starting another "what amp" style thread. My previous one was for a spider valve but im pleased to say i have changed my mind about that idea! I didnt realize i could get a stack in my buget, so im now quite exited!

My knowlege on amps is not the best so be patient please. How much differance will it make to my sound getting the head and cab rarther than the combo? After all, getting a nice tone is my main priority. Is the cab ive suggested going to match the head well? If not what would you recommend?

Ive watched loads of videos on this amp and it sounds great to me. I was toying with the idea of getting the 112 6505 but ive heard this isnt anywhere near as good as its big brothers. So the fact that the vypyr has a 6505 model built in is nice, just how close is the tone to the real deal? It would cost me over double the price for a proper 6505 head and cab and then more again for effects i would need.

I have to make a decision this weekend so help me out folks! Im finding it very hard to find a product everyone can agree sounds good. This is quite important saying as i cant try before i buy, a few bad comments and im back to the drawing board lol!
#2
Where are you located? What is your budget...

Can't say without you telling us this..

valve king cabs are pretty crappy
#3
thats exactly what i didnt want to hear haha! Im in newcastle mate. Budget is around 700. I could maybe go a little higher if somthing really caught my eye. Im not fussed about having the most amazing tone, it just has to be decent. Keeping in mind the spider 2 amp i had sounded fine to me....
#4
The Vypyr 6505 model doesnt really sound like a 6505 but I think it sounds good in its own way. It can do metal really well I wouldnt worry about the high gain sounds out of it. Its much more versetile than the 6505 112 also.

Any reason you need a stack? You could save yourself a lot of cash by getting the tube 60 combo and you could have enough volume for gigs easily. The 120w is really overkill for most people.
#5
I can say for a fact that a 412 closed back will in almost all cases sound better than a 112 combo (open back) cabinet, even with a worse amp. I have had a DSL 401 for quite a while now, which is, reliability aside, a great amp. I recently picked up a Valveking 100 head and a used 5150 cabinet with the Sheffield speakers, and it blows the Marshall away.

If you want really high gain, the Vypyr is not a bad amp at all, particularly the head and larger combos with a tube stage in them. That said, a Valveking head with an OD in front will have a more "ballsy," natural sound to it - the distorted channel is based somewhat on the JCM 800. If you want a big rhythm sound, you will be better off with it in my opinion. If you want to play tight leads, you can still do it with the VK, but might be better off with the Vypyr. If you want to have a large arsenal of sounds for extra versatility, you should go with the Vypyr. Either amp will be a great choice in their price range and you will quite happy with them.

On the cabinet, I would look for a better used cabinet. Cheap cabinets ruin good amps, and even if you find a relatively beat up 5150 cabinet (they lose value quickly from new and are found cheap used, but will not continue to depreciate much below $250 or so and are GREAT cabinets at that price) you will be happier. Obviously don't limit yourself to just that, but do not go with a new cabinet with cheapish speakers or you will regret it in the long run.

If you describe the sound you are going for I can probably help more - but do not underestimate the Valveking head - many people slam them for being crap and nothing is farther from the truth. My case may be extreme, but I honestly found it preferable over both a JVM and a Mesa Dual Rec for what I was doing, and with a TS-9 in front it really tightens up and screams!

That said, I've played on a couple Vypyr combos and they have a lot to offer - but in my opinion even a cheaper all tube amp is going to have a better, bigger sound (so long as it is built to last, which the Peavey certainly is!).

EDIT: I picked up the VK head and 5150 cabinet used for a total of $450. That was a good deal that you may not find, but is an example of what's out there if you look a bit.
#6
+1 to what CSA said.

[Also, location, gigging or not, more info on styles you play]


When it comes to tone on a tight budget do not pump (waste) money on crappy cabs/speakers. I had a VK112 combo and I didn't really like it until I put a new speaker in in (Eminence Red Coat Man O War). I also put different preamp tubes, dummy jacks, ODs, EQs, into it too.

The VK head is not bad if you have a good cab.

That said, I'd rather have the 6505+112.

That said, I'd rather have the Vypyr 60.

The 6505+112 may not be on par with its bigger brothers quality or tone wise but for the money I think it is a hell a amp.

I really like the Vypyr 60 better. I bought one. The 6505 setting does not nail the 6505 tone but is really nice anyway. So is the Diezel setting, JSX setting, Twin setting, etc.

You can find a nice amp for $700 used. We'd need to know more though. A Peavey Ultra or XXX might do you.
#7
Quote by RichieCrozier
thats exactly what i didnt want to hear haha! Im in newcastle mate. Budget is around 700. I could maybe go a little higher if somthing really caught my eye. Im not fussed about having the most amazing tone, it just has to be decent. Keeping in mind the spider 2 amp i had sounded fine to me....

You can do better then this setup if you go used. Ebay is your friend 700 quid is quite a good budget IF you go used. You can get a nice amp or even halfstack for that.
#8
Quote by guitarpatrick66

Any reason you need a stack? You could save yourself a lot of cash by getting the tube 60 combo and you could have enough volume for gigs easily. The 120w is really overkill for most people.


I just get the impression the stack will sound better. If their was no tonal changes it would make more sense for me to get the combo, although i do like the look of the stacks better

wow, thanks for the great reply AJDrac. I am limited to where i can buy from as i was planning on getting the stuff on a 0% finnance over 12 months offer. Ive just got a new job and dont have the time to save as ive got gigs coming up. Also my old amp has broke and im desperate to get playing again. I guess if it was really worth my while i could get a small loan online and buy from ebay, but obviously this will cost me for interest.

I like the versitality of the moddeling amp because our band mixes heavy riffs with clean melodys allot. Being able to switch between sounds easy is ideal. Check out our tracks www.reverbnation.com/richiecrozier. This isnt a shameless plug, just giving you the sound i will be using the amp for (bleed and sea will give you the best idea what tones im looking for) . These were recorded using a line 6 pod, so would be getting re-done as soon as i get my gear!

this help is appreciated by the way
#9
For starters, in almost all cases a stack will sound better than a combo due to multiple speakers in a closed back cabinet - there IS a difference, and you CAN'T make up for it with power or amp design (though a good combo may well still be better sounding overall than a cheap stack).

Based on what I hear (recordings are indeed the best way to convey tone concepts) I'm still inclined to lean towards all tube - your sound is very open and exposed in many places and isn't so technical to require solid-state like tightness. I think a full tube amp will do wonders for the "power" in your tone, particularly on those slower lead lines, but also a lot of the rhythm stuff.

That said, in your situation you may need something sooner, and if that is the case and it is reasonably unfeasible to get something off the used market, the Vypyr will get the job done decently. I would really try to look for a different cab if at all possible, maybe a 212 of higher quality? You won't lose fullness of tone with a 212 from a 412, just a bit of volume, and it will be PLENTY of volume regardless. Not to mention the ease of transport, but that's not a likely as much a factor as quality and price.

See what you can find in the way of 212s - there are many decent choices, largely dependent on the speaker selection. Look for Celestion G12-75s, 65s (both of these often get hit on a bit for clarity but for big, open sounds they are great), V30s, Peavey Sheffields (mostly in the used market unfortunately), WGS Veteran 30s - probably not Eminence for the sound you are going for, but if you've personally heard one you like then by all means go for it!

For cabinet construction you want 1/2" MDF minimum, bonus if it is thicker (3/4") or Birch Ply. If you can't find out what it's made of, it probably isn't quality. Note that I'm not trying to be snobby about requiring a cabinet to have 3/4" Birch, which many high-end users would consider an absolute requirement. 1/2" MDF is reasonably available in mid/low-mid priced cabinets and will get you what you want if it is built properly.

Some stores offer financing and have a bit of a used selection, and since many cabinet options would work for your style desire I believe your chances of finding such to be reasonable - you will pay more than buying direct from a user, but still less than new, and cabinets tend to last through a lot of punishment. It may look like a beater and sound amazing (those are often the best!).

In any case, definitely explore your options - and though I hate to sound like the usual "wise old man with too much patience for you young'ins," I believe that it is better to not jump too quickly into something so long as you have ANY way to play in the meantime. You could use a Distortion pedal into a PA for a month or two if needed, it works decently, and people won't care that much live so long as you are loud and fun!

I wish I could help with specific brands/models of cabinets, but honestly I don't know much about availability and pricing at your location, so I figured I would just try to help out with some criteria to help your search. Shopping is half the fun for me, and if you enjoy it anywhere near as much it is well worth the time to ensure there isn't a better option before you jump into a financing deal on gear that you may be unhappy with a few months down the road.
Last edited by AJDrac at Sep 10, 2011,
#10
Ive been looking about and orange do a few nice cabs. Just found this one online with vintage 30s http://www.guitarandampshop.co.uk/acatalog/Orange_PPC212-OB_2_x_12__Open_Back_Speaker_Cabinet__ddd.html A little bit more than i had wanted to pay but like you say, i dont want to ruin the sound with a bad cab.

Ive looked at the valve king videos on youtube and while the distorted tones are nice the cleans are not my cup of tea. A few people have commented on how they make strumming chords sound sludgy? I play allot of styles in my spare time and would need a nice useable clean channel aswell.

Im going to look about for a little while longer, i dont want to dive in and end up regreting a purchase. However Can we agree that the vypyr head and the orange cab would have me on the way to a decent tone?