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#1
I have been having odd troubles with my guitar tone every since I got it about a year ago. It is a Left handed Schecter C-1 Blackjack
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/electric_guitars/schecter/c-1_blackjack/index.html

Reviews on it always seem to be great but I can barely stand it. The sound on mine is just subpar. Even my friends who have "lower end" guitars have much better tones then me (I play Death Metal/Metalcore and such with it) and it is just overall odd. At first I thought it was the pickups so I went out and got EMG 81/85s which did improve the tone a bit but it was still severly lacking then I thought it was also just the amp I used (A Line 6 spider 4) and I just about a month ago purchases a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier and a Line 6 4x12 cab (I play shows with my band) BUT even then I find my guitar tone wanting. So I thought it may be simply the way I pick but when my other guitarist and others play it also it still has that same weird tone. While when I go into the stores and play another other guitar (even other schecters) they have this great beautiful tone. Ive tried messing around with my action a bit, changing strings and such but I still can't find a satisfying sound. I think it may be the body of the guitar because i swear its possibly made out of plastic and not wood, infact it doesn't seem like there is any wood anywhere on the guitar at all, not even the neck. But in the description it says mahogany and rosewood. I don't know if I should sell it and get something else or if there is something else I can do to fix my guitar tone.

I haven't been too specific about what I don't like about the tone simply because its hard to describe but it seems like its Attack is just very low and non existent in a way, like when I hit notes it just has a different feel to it, and sounds I guess "crunchy", also I get a bit of a buzz from my thickest string sometimes when I strum it (which I have tried to fix by adjusting the action but to no real success) and it may even be my fret board that is the problem. But the whole guitar just feels so plasticy to me, unlike every other guitar ive played. and it is terribly frustrating.
#2
ok your cab isnt that great so that might bear messing with your tone (unless theres some good speakers in there)

also: mesa recto's are notorious for having to be difficult with dialing in good tones. most people will tell u that once u do find it, you will love it.

also: rectos are a bit flabby on bass try throwing an OD in there

*EDIT* and if u cant succesfully setup or get rid of your fret buzz, take it to a tech or a buddy that knows how. u would be suprised how far a good setup can go
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
Last edited by EspTro at Sep 13, 2011,
#3
Quote by EspTro
ok your cab isnt that great so that might bear messing with your tone (unless theres some good speakers in there)

also: mesa recto's are notorious for having to be difficult with dialing in good tones. most people will tell u that once u do find it, you will love it.

also: rectos are a bit flabby on bass try throwing an OD in there

yeah I know my cab isn't the best and actually at my next practice im going to mess around with my friends cab and see what kind of sound I can get out of that. Also I have started to get a decent tone dialed in with my mesa, but i feel as though my mesa is just making up for the overall poorness of my guitars actual tone.
#4
Could change the pickups if you want
Or you could sell your guitar and try and buy a different one
Gear:

Schecter Omen-6
Custom-built explorer (my first build)
Schecter Damian-6
Two strat copies
Home-made PitBull Guitars Flying V
Blackstar HT-1RH
Blackstar HT-Metal
Dunlop KH95 Wah
#5
Quote by DJ_Effrey
Could change the pickups if you want
Or you could sell your guitar and try and buy a different one

I was thinking about doing the second option. I was just wondering if their is anything else I can do to adjust my tone, maybe give it more attack?
#6
also: u might be a passive pickup guy. best thing you can do is take your head to a music store try some cabs and different guitars through it.
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#7
Quote by Alkarin
I was thinking about doing the second option. I was just wondering if their is anything else I can do to adjust my tone, maybe give it more attack?


You could go and see a luthier and ask them to chek out the way the guitar's built, they might have a good chance of picking up any issues with it. You could invest in a new set of pickups which might get a tone that you prefer. But judging by your description of your guitar, it sounds like you might be in line for a new one.
Gear:

Schecter Omen-6
Custom-built explorer (my first build)
Schecter Damian-6
Two strat copies
Home-made PitBull Guitars Flying V
Blackstar HT-1RH
Blackstar HT-Metal
Dunlop KH95 Wah
#9
few options:
1. you just dont like your schecter tone wise.
2. your amp is not EQ'ed well for your ears or something inside is broken.
3. you cab is crap, see the irony in this sentence

but really how can you dare to play a triple rect. into a line 6 4x12? even making a 4x12 yourself would be considered more gracefull
#10
try playing around with effects
especially equalizers
compressors
and distortion (I recommend EH Metal Muff)
Opus Pocus =]
#11
Let me ask this Question.
DO you play your gear before buying it? Seems not.....

Do you really need a TRIPLE Recti? It has to be awful loud do archieve the typical rectifier sound.
#12
That cab is certainly not doing you any favors. Try the amp with a different cab with your guitar before you do anything. I'd consider selling the cab and upgrading it regardless. You're just not going to be able to use that amp to its full potential with that cabinet.
Music Man JPX 6
Ibanez RGT220H
Fender 50th Anniversary Deluxe Strat
93 Jackson Std Professional (Japan)
03 Gibson LP Special
Alvarez AD60SC

Mesa Single Rectifier/Mesa 4x12 cab
Mesa Transatlantic TA-15
Hughes & Kettner Triplex
#13
Quote by whaip
Let me ask this Question.
DO you play your gear before buying it? Seems not.....

Do you really need a TRIPLE Recti? It has to be awful loud do archieve the typical rectifier sound.

Its very hard to find and play guitars that I can possibly buy simply because im left handed and all the shops around here if im lucky only have 1 or two left handed guitars that are usually fenders....So I have to purchase my guitars online.
#14
Quote by 3074326
That cab is certainly not doing you any favors. Try the amp with a different cab with your guitar before you do anything. I'd consider selling the cab and upgrading it regardless. You're just not going to be able to use that amp to its full potential with that cabinet.

I plan on doing so in a couple days, but any reason why the cab is no good compared to others? Just so I have more knowledge on the subject. Also what would you suggest in the lower price range? (I got the cab for 300)
Last edited by Alkarin at Sep 13, 2011,
#15
pull a hendrix and flip a double cutaway guitar to make it a lefty. and check out avatar cabs
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#16
just keep in mind that the amp setup you have is about 80% of it. so pinpoint the problem there first. Its mostlikely not your guitar.
#17
A really glaring point that has not come up in this thread yet is battery. Do you have fresh battery in your guitar? With EMGs that will literally make or break your tone.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#18
Change the battery, EQ better, and get a new 4x12, not even, get a quality 2x12 instead of a shitty or meh 4x12, check out the mesa 2x12's, only like 500 bucks, and that's for a good quality one.
ಠ_ಠ
- Yes, My name is actually Terran -
- Not just a Starcraft fan -


Terran > Zerg and Protoss
#19
Your guitar is fine, though you may want to change the battery. Unless your a tone freak with refined tastes, you could play through a Squier and get a good tone, provided you have good pickups, and more importantly, a good amp.

If your guitar is wired correctly, and nothing is damaged in your amp, you need to seriously consider getting an EQ pedal. MXR makes one of the best for $100, and Danelectro makes one of the cheapest(though it does the trick if you're on a tight budget) for $30.

As I said, unless your wiring is incorrect, your battery is dead, or your pickups are malfunctioning, the tone problem is within your amp. It sounds to me like you need a better understanding of what the knobs do(precisely what they do, not a vague knowledge) and an EQ pedal to isolate and refine your tone.
#20
Throwing a $2000 head together with a $300 cab, really? Please spend a little more on a good quality cab. The Mesa 2x12 recto cab will only cost a couple hundred more but will be a LOT better.

How do other guitars sound through your setup?
Fleet of MiJ Ibanez
Couple of Balls
Peavey & EVH Wolfgangs
Eclipse
Fender HM Strat
Kemper KPA
5150 III 50w & cabs
#21
Here's a couple things to consider;
I believe that 90% of your tone, comes from your hands - the way you grip your strings, vibrato, etc. A teacher once told me, "play it like you mean it."

Secondly, how do you set your tone controls? For example, if you've got the treble and bass cranked, and the mids turned all the way down, your tone will sound very lifeless. I have a Dual Rectifier, (imagine the knobs as a clock), I set the bass at about 12-1:00. The mids at 2:00, and the treble at 12-1:00. Presence at 9-10:00. Midrange is what makes the guitar sing. Also, you don't have to crank the gain. I find setting it at 2:00 gives me plenty of crunch without the tone being too muddy.

A better cab will definitely help. And I'm not a big fan of active pickups. I have a Seymour Duncan JB in all of my guitars. I think its great for heavy stuff, lead, and it cleans up nicely.

Hope this helps.
I'd like to help, but not as much as I'd like not to.


"To be successful, you need to be a good musician. To be popular, you just need to be fashionable" - Ritchie Blackmore
#22
try some pick ups from this company, deleted i play hard rythm and i couldnt be happier with my tone and bottom end. im in a band called Restruct deleted i had a guitar built and it is by far the best sounding guitar i have ever heard. period. check em out oh yeah... made in the usa too
#23
also not sure if anyone has thought of this but adjust your pickup height.. if its to low you can get muddy sound, to close can also sound muddy.... try adjusting them and see how that sounds...
#24
Go to a music store and play your Schecter through a Fender Twin Reverb. If it sounds like shit then it's your guitar.
#25
Quote by maker's marked
Here's a couple things to consider;
I believe that 90% of your tone, comes from your hands - the way you grip your strings, vibrato, etc. A teacher once told me, "play it like you mean it."

True, but I think 90% is a bit of an exaggeration. I don't think the difference between a Squier starter pack and high-end tube amps and guitars is only 10%. Hell, the difference between not using an EQ pedal and using one would be more than that.

But I do agree with you, and I know for a fact you can put a bad guitarist behind any gear and it won't make them sound good.
#26
i have rethought my suggestions to you and here is my new advice

your cab is making your tone frizzy, the crappy speakers in it. u can get an avatar cab 2x12 with v30's or just about any good speaker for $450 including shipping....which is a steal.
also battery in you guitar.

its been said a lot in this thread but these are the things to be considered
Quote by kangaxxter
The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#27
Operator error!!
Bhaok

The following statement is true. The proceeding statement is false.
#28
Check your valves, especially if you bought used the valves could be faulty or just plain worn out. Take the head to someone who you trust with such things and get them to take a look at it.

New tubes can make a MASSIVE difference to your sound.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#30
Quote by maker's marked
Here's a couple things to consider;
I believe that 90% of your tone, comes from your hands - the way you grip your strings, vibrato, etc. A teacher once told me, "play it like you mean it."

No....just no.....maybe 10 percent is in the fingers, You can't just play any guitar or any amp with any EQ or any pedals and just come up 10 percent short of your original tone.

Amp is easily most important in your tone, your EQ, then guitar, pickups etc. When you get down to the small things like pick, string gauge, THEN your "hands" or "tone in the fingers" come into play with vibrato and attack.
ಠ_ಠ
- Yes, My name is actually Terran -
- Not just a Starcraft fan -


Terran > Zerg and Protoss
Last edited by Tango616 at Sep 13, 2011,
#31
^^^ I agree with him. I wouldn't say tone comes from your hands. Maybe some dymanics/attack, etc. I'm sure that if you have the exact same gear as someone else (and are as skilled as said person) you would be able to come extremely close to that persons sound.
Quote by FEngHLyan

She will join the prom.

She insists to wear this lights.

I don't think so.

How can I persuade her?
#32
Wait, wait, wait. You traded out SD Blackouts for EMG 81-85?

I know tone is preference, but....
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#33
Quote by Hail
Wait, wait, wait. You traded out SD Blackouts for EMG 81-85?

I know tone is preference, but....



No, they Blackjack ATX's have the blackouts. the older blackjacks had passives.
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#34
Quote by Tango616
No....just no.....maybe 10 persent is in the fingers, You can't just play any guitar or any amp with any EQ or any pedals and just come up 10 persent short of your original tone.

Amp is easily most important in your tone, your EQ, then guitar, pickups etc. When you get down to the small things like pick, string gauge, THEN your "hands" or "tone in the fingers" come into play with vibrato and attack.

I agree that the 90% thing is ridiculous, but I think he made a good point(whether he was trying to make that point or not), that no matter how good your setup is, if your technique is lacking, you won't sound good.

I think throwing percents out there that can't realistically be measures if pretty ridiculous though. There's way too many made up statistics on the internet.
#35
Fuck those percentages and don't get into this whole "tone is in the fingers"-crap again and again and again.

Your tone is your equipment.

Good playing will make you sound better.

But it won't make a Spider III sound like a Diezel, it won't make EMG humbuckers sound like vintage style singlecoils, it won't make a regular Strat sound like an ES-335, it won't get the mud out of bad pickups, it won't make Ash sound like Mahagony, it won't boost your signal like a Tube Screamer, it won't make a Mesa sound like a Marshall, it won't get you fuzz tones out of a clean amp.

I could continue writing those examples for hours.
But I hope you get my point.

Bad tone isn't always the consequence of bad playing.
Of course bad playing will make you sound bad, but there is a difference between playing bad and having crap tone.

Give Steve Vai a 100$ Walmart starter package. He will play well, but his tone is going to be bad anyway. This is where "tone is in the fingers" fails.
#36
Quote by Alkarin
I plan on doing so in a couple days, but any reason why the cab is no good compared to others? Just so I have more knowledge on the subject. Also what would you suggest in the lower price range? (I got the cab for 300)


Differences in cabinets are mainly the speakers, quality of wood and build quality. If you picked up a Recto cab (used) for a couple hundred more than you spent on that Line 6, you're going to get better of all of those. It would definitely be worth it.

Also, 90% of your tone is not in your fingers. That's a ridiculous exaggeration. I hate debating what has more tone, but whatever the answer is.. it's not your fingers.
Music Man JPX 6
Ibanez RGT220H
Fender 50th Anniversary Deluxe Strat
93 Jackson Std Professional (Japan)
03 Gibson LP Special
Alvarez AD60SC

Mesa Single Rectifier/Mesa 4x12 cab
Mesa Transatlantic TA-15
Hughes & Kettner Triplex
Last edited by 3074326 at Sep 13, 2011,
#37
Quote by JesusCrisp
Fuck those percentages and don't get into this whole "tone is in the fingers"-crap again and again and again.

Your tone is your equipment.

You posted an even bigger thing about tone in the equipment than I did.
Regardless, that was my point, tone is in the gear, which is why I never got into the percentages, I just said, amp is most important as far as tone goes, and that fingers and "how you grip it the neck" are very very very small factors in how you sound.

Quote by W4RP1G
*Stuff*

Not really, like Crisp said, you could give Vai a shit guitar, he'd sound like crap, but he'd play great so he'd "sound great" not tone wise. HOWEVER, if you gave a noob a great set up, and he played bad, he'd still SOUND good tone wise, the notes and chords would sound good. It's his PLAYING would be bad that made it bad, (notes ringing, poor muting, etc.)
ಠ_ಠ
- Yes, My name is actually Terran -
- Not just a Starcraft fan -


Terran > Zerg and Protoss
#38
Quote by Tango616
Not really, like Crisp said, you could give Vai a shit guitar, he'd sound like crap, but he'd play great so he'd "sound great" not tone wise. HOWEVER, if you gave a noob a great set up, and he played bad, he'd still SOUND good tone wise, the notes and chords would sound good. It's his PLAYING would be bad that made it bad, (notes ringing, poor muting, etc.)

You pretty much said what I meant to say.
#39
Quote by W4RP1G
You pretty much said what I meant to say.

Alright cool then.
ಠ_ಠ
- Yes, My name is actually Terran -
- Not just a Starcraft fan -


Terran > Zerg and Protoss
#40
I don't think fingers are the least important thing, but they are definitely important. If you put a jazz player in front of a 6505, he's not going to start playing metal just because he's in front of a 6505.

Let's just say that every part is important. Because it is.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
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