#1
I just have question about the swivel technique used by George Kolias.

This will eventually damage the knee? Or is there some kind of technique so that you won't get hurt using this?
#2
It won't damage your knee. Most of the motion is in your ankle so if it's gonna damage something it'll be your ankle. Your knee doesn't get any more action that doing heel toe. If you are worried about knee damage then you slide technique instead. It's the same as swivel but forward for the second stroke instead of swiveling to the side. The motion feels very similar to swivel and most people I know that started using swivel eventually switch to slide because slide lets you do more interesting double base and hi hat at the same time where swivel can get a bit clumsy if you want to play double bass and use the hi hat pedal.
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#3
If you do it properly, it won't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHHSmrM3-Zc

George only swivels on his right foot for single foot blasts or on his left during fast double bass, though, but he (and the numerous other drummers that swivel) have no problems with it. A lot of people try and do it but fail horribly-- it's not really a technique but rather an exaggeration of a natural motion, turned into a deliberate motion. Pretty much anybody's foot will swivel slightly during double bass at any 200+ bpm, some more than others.

I'm personally not a fan of deliberately swiveling because of how light it makes you play, though.
#4
Quote by Steve08
I'm personally not a fan of deliberately swiveling because of how light it makes you play, though.
+1

I personally recommend you practising normal heel-up technique (or heel-down if that's what you're used to) and seeing where it naturally takes you. After a few months of solid practise your leg will naturally start to adapt to the speed you keep trying to reach.
#5
Just wondered if the swivel technique can injure you. I guess not if you do it properly, I play heel up but I'm at a point where I just want to play faster but with more control, Just trying out different techniques like slide technique, heel-toe and of course swivel. I usually play heel up and minimal practice with heel down. Yup still practicing.

So swivel has a lack of power then?

Is heel toe or slide more reliable?

I kinda like combining heel toe and slide for now but kinda wondered if I can also combine it with the swivel technique.
#6
Neither of the techniques are notably powerful. The most powerful is simply playing really ****ing fast. Check out Gojira's drummer Mario Duplantier. The speeds that band plays at are usually no faster than 200bpm, and Mario doesn't employ any specific technique for that other than sheer stamina. He's a legend, far more than the guys who use triggers or swivel techniques, which don't sound anywhere near as good, in my opinion.

But if I were to speak from experience, I'd say "slide" is the fastest and easiest to become adequate with. It's downside is a lack of control. "Heel toe" is the most controllable as it's a smooth and fluid motion based on repetitive and 'bouncing' movements. But I found it very difficult to really feel the kick drum. "Swivel" is the most cumbersome unless it happens naturally, which it sometimes does for me. Like I said, take the one that feels the most natural.
#7
Quote by gothblade
Just wondered if the swivel technique can injure you. I guess not if you do it properly, I play heel up but I'm at a point where I just want to play faster but with more control, Just trying out different techniques like slide technique, heel-toe and of course swivel. I usually play heel up and minimal practice with heel down. Yup still practicing.

So swivel has a lack of power then?

Is heel toe or slide more reliable?

I kinda like combining heel toe and slide for now but kinda wondered if I can also combine it with the swivel technique.
Swivel is not very powerful, no.

If you want to increase your heel up speed, the only solution is to practice a lot, like at least an hour a day just on double bass.

As for slide, the motion for slide is just too big to be applied past a certain tempo, I think. For a quick double it's fine at any speed but you can't do it for super fast John Longstreth-style double strokes. Heel toe + slide are different from swivel because those are methods for double strokes (unless you use the constant release method, which uses the heel toe motion but for single strokes) and not singles, which is what swivels are used for. Double strokes in general are much easier to do than single strokes-- my single strokes top out at about 220 bpm but with double strokes I can hold 250 for at least a minute, because your legs aren't moving very fast at all, so the work is split up between your leg and feet. However, double strokes also generally sound like shit when played constantly at very high rates of speed, so unless you play an e-kit or have triggers it won't sound very motivating.

As for how reliable it is, I dunno, could you rephrase that?

Also, as to what AG said I agree more or less entirely. Slide is a very natural motion to do so it's pretty easy to learn. Swivel is difficult and weird to learn because it only really happens past 200 bpm and you should only be doing if it occurs naturally (which it usually will, but not always). Heel toe is kind of in between. I use a technique described as a "Longstreth mush" which isn't really heel toe but still gets the double strokes done. You just basically press your foot into the pedal twice... it's kind of hard to explain but basically you make a stroke with the leg and then your toes rock forward to achieve the 2nd stroke.

Finally... if you want power, just straight single strokes dude. Use leg weights, push as much as possible, really stomp your pedals (not literally though). Just play really loud singles. It's easier than it sounds
#8
Thanks for the advice guys Having those techniques will allow me to be flexible though or something.

Guess I have to work on it again.
#9
Sure thing

I don't really use double strokes for metal drumming unless I'm playing at a tempo where my singles aren't quick enough, in which case I will, especially cause they're easy to maintain for loooooong periods of time... they're most applicable for single pedal stuff (like linear playing with a closed hi-hat etc.) or in a steady 16th note pattern with little flurries 32nd notes added in IMO.