#1
Hi all

Brand new here and first post.

I just bought a blackstar HT Stage 60 amp, this is my first amp in about 20 years, actually maybe longer. i like the amp and also purchased 2 blackstar pedals, the modulation, and the delay. i like the natural amp distortion and to an extent the reverb. i also have an old cry baby wah, which stunned me by still working after all these years.

I have the Blackstar pedals running thru the stereo loop and the cry baby takes my guitar input and goes direct to the main input on the amp

i was thinking about some more pedals and set up i would like to do and was wondering if you could give me any insight into what i want and if i am doing this right

first i am not playing live, this is for home, jammin in my home studio or with my son who will be taking up drums. so i don't have to cart stuff all over the place

For recording i use a fractal axe standard direct.

ok

1) thinking about a nice comp/sustain pedal? what can you recommend here? and then where would you put it in my setup? is it the first pedal in the chain? is it in the stereo loop pedals or direct? do these pedals really make a difference?

2) a good tuner pedal, and i know this sounds dumb but i truly haven't done this in years and actually never had one before, where would it go and what would you recommend?

3) looking at a pedal train pro, gig bag, for my pedals? thoughts on this? i was told the voodoo power supply that fits it would not work with my tube blackstar pedals? due to tubes/voltage i guess.

4) wouldn't mind an overall volume pedal, but again no idea where to put it, or what one to use? thoughts and recommendations would be great

5) while the verb is nice on the blackstar, i would like to have a clean dry channel so what would be a great verb pedal? i might get the blackstar ones as these are really nice, but just wondering what you all think? and sorry but does this go in the effects loop or part of the direct ?

anyway, sorry for all the questions, but i really am excited about playing "live" again. i have a PRS 513 as my main guitar and play mostly rock, not metal, and alot of clean rhythm stuff

thanks for any help!

tim
#2
Diamond or Keeley make really nice compressors (if you have the budget). They usually go first in your signal chain (i.e. before any of the pedals that go into your amp input.) For reverb I would recommend an Electo Harmonix Holy Grail (or one of the other, higher end reverbs from EHX like the Cathedral). As far as volume pedals, Ernie Ball seems to make the go-to pedal for this. I'd put it either last in your signal chain before your amp input or first in your chain in your effects loop (depending on what you want to use it for.) Put your Delay last in your effects loop chain and your modulation before it.

But experiment! That's part of the fun, and all that stuff is generally just what works for me.
Gear
Highway One Tele (w/Custom Shop 51 Nocaster pickups)
Standard Tele (modded to Nashville specs)
Reverend Roundhouse

Orange Rockerverb 50 MKI
Vox AC4c1
Jet City JCA20H

And pedals!



"Shiva opens her arms now..
...to make sure I don't get too far"
#3
1. MXR Custom Comp is GREAT. Supposidly they use a NOS chip that was in the originals... can't verify that.

2. T.C. Electronics Polytune or Korg Pitchblack

3. Pedaltrain is great. Go for it.

4. Volume pedals aren't necessary. I love my Morely Lil' Alligator though. I use it primarily for heavily delayed and reverbed swells.

5. RV-5, RV-7, RV-3, Verbzilla, WET, Blue Sky...really depends on your budget per pedal.
Gibson Les Paul Studio
Highway One Telecaster
Dean Evo
Mesa F-50
Laney GH50L
Vox AC30 C2
Ampeg V2
pedals
#4
Quote by jam85
Hi all

Brand new here and first post.


hi, welcome to ug

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1387138

using the info in that link will help others give advice and help you get the advice you need. it's useful.

Quote by jam85
1) thinking about a nice comp/sustain pedal? what can you recommend here? and then where would you put it in my setup? is it the first pedal in the chain? is it in the stereo loop pedals or direct? do these pedals really make a difference?


i don't personally prefer comp pedals but my buddy uses a philosopher's tone and that one is alright. some people recommend the mxr compressor pedal.

you run the pedal where it is need, compressors can be used to tame effects that can cause noticeable peeks (like violent swooshing phasers in feedback mode). it is usually used at/near the beginning of your distortion pedals.

Quote by jam85
2) a good tuner pedal, and i know this sounds dumb but i truly haven't done this in years and actually never had one before, where would it go and what would you recommend?


i use contact tuners, cuz i find them to be far cheaper and convenient and don't take up my board space. boss tuners are good enough if you want a pedal. my buddy had a strobe tuner, it was a bit much for me. you run the pedal at the front of your chain

Quote by jam85
3) looking at a pedal train pro, gig bag, for my pedals? thoughts on this? i was told the voodoo power supply that fits it would not work with my tube blackstar pedals? due to tubes/voltage i guess.


i use a pedal train, got the voodoo labs supply. i'd contact voodoo labs, they should be able to tell you what you need to run for those blackstar pedals. there are VERY few pedals that thing can't power.

Quote by jam85
4) wouldn't mind an overall volume pedal, but again no idea where to put it, or what one to use? thoughts and recommendations would be great


you use it near the beginning of your chain. for brands, ernie ball, dunlop, w/e it's just a volume pedal and you aren't playing pedal steel.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/search/search.jsp?fA=a&fI=2002&fV=site1A&question=volume+pedal

Quote by jam85
5) while the verb is nice on the blackstar, i would like to have a clean dry channel so what would be a great verb pedal? i might get the blackstar ones as these are really nice, but just wondering what you all think? and sorry but does this go in the effects loop or part of the direct ?


reverb, in the effect loop, before or after delay, to your preference. i use a neunabar wet reverb, i also like the TC nova reverb if you want lots of options.


to recap, here is roughly how you chain should look

guitar -> tuner -> volume pedal -> wah -> comp/sustain -> amp

fx send -> modulation -> reverb -> delay -> fx receive
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#5
Quote by jam85
Hi all

Brand new here and first post.

I just bought a blackstar HT Stage 60 amp, this is my first amp in about 20 years, actually maybe longer. i like the amp and also purchased 2 blackstar pedals, the modulation, and the delay. i like the natural amp distortion and to an extent the reverb. i also have an old cry baby wah, which stunned me by still working after all these years.

I have the Blackstar pedals running thru the stereo loop and the cry baby takes my guitar input and goes direct to the main input on the amp

i was thinking about some more pedals and set up i would like to do and was wondering if you could give me any insight into what i want and if i am doing this right

first i am not playing live, this is for home, jammin in my home studio or with my son who will be taking up drums. so i don't have to cart stuff all over the place

For recording i use a fractal axe standard direct.

ok

1) thinking about a nice comp/sustain pedal? what can you recommend here? and then where would you put it in my setup? is it the first pedal in the chain? is it in the stereo loop pedals or direct? do these pedals really make a difference?

2) a good tuner pedal, and i know this sounds dumb but i truly haven't done this in years and actually never had one before, where would it go and what would you recommend?

3) looking at a pedal train pro, gig bag, for my pedals? thoughts on this? i was told the voodoo power supply that fits it would not work with my tube blackstar pedals? due to tubes/voltage i guess.

4) wouldn't mind an overall volume pedal, but again no idea where to put it, or what one to use? thoughts and recommendations would be great

5) while the verb is nice on the blackstar, i would like to have a clean dry channel so what would be a great verb pedal? i might get the blackstar ones as these are really nice, but just wondering what you all think? and sorry but does this go in the effects loop or part of the direct ?

anyway, sorry for all the questions, but i really am excited about playing "live" again. i have a PRS 513 as my main guitar and play mostly rock, not metal, and alot of clean rhythm stuff

thanks for any help!

tim


1.MXR CSP-202 Compressor - If I need one, I'll get this. Since you are not putting a distortion or overdrive in your chain put it after your CryBaby if you don't want the wah to be effected, or else.

-Google search: "A compressor is a circuit that "compresses" the signal so that if it exceeds a certain level it "limits" the amount of signal that goes through. " - basically if you play quit on the guitar it will appear louder (normal), if you play too hard it will be played quieter (normal).

2.TC Electronics Polytune Polyphonic Tuner - the best I think, but you can get many others, cheaper/expensive. If you are playing only at home you won't really need to act fast and tune your guitar in a split second.

3.Pedal train is cool. There is a special version of the Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 2+ that can power the Blackstar pedals. You should ask about it.

4.Boss FV-50H Volume Pedal or Ernie Ball volume pedal 25kv- you need one of these if you are placing it after Buffered pedals. If you want it first in your chain you can get a Mono Volume Pedal or a 250k.
The 25k one, after buffered pedals preserves the treble lot better than the 250k one. In other words you won't lose any or minimum of the actual guitar pickup signal.
I suggest putting it last, through the amps Input. Both of those pedals have a Tuner Output. You want to put your Tuner there, so when you press your volume pedal (cut the volume), you won't hear anything coming from the amp, but the Tuner will still get the signal from the guitar.
P.S. The CryBaby is buffer (probably), the Compressor is true bypas, so actually I don't know if what I said will stand for this setup.. but I'm sure about the treble!

5.TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb - great reverb pedal. I don't use them much so I don't know what to say. You want to put it in your LOOP after or before your delay (I want it after my delay)

guitar > wah > comp > volume pedal (>tuner) > amp
Loop: modulation > delay > reverb

My way
Last edited by BrainCrasher at Sep 14, 2011,
#6
wow

this forum is alive!

thanks so much for taking the time to help, especially for how to chain these. i swore i wouldn't overdo it but i think these are essentially what i would really like/use.

i will check out the Diamond pedals to, i buy most of my stuff thru sweetwater and will see if they have them.

anything else you think might be fun just toss that out as well

thanks again!
#7
Quote by BrainCrasher
4.Boss FV-50H Volume Pedal or Ernie Ball volume pedal 25kv- you need one of these if you are placing it after Buffered pedals. If you want it first in your chain you can get a Mono Volume Pedal or a 250k.
The 25k one, after buffered pedals preserves the treble lot better than the 250k one. In other words you won't lose any or minimum of the actual guitar pickup signal.
I suggest putting it last, through the amps Input.
This post is a bit misleading. A 25K volume pedal does not preserve treble. Putting a volume pedal after a buffer does, and the type of volume pedal after the buffer is irrelevant. The myth is that you need a 25K pedal after a buffer. This is not true, nor is it necessarily desirable.

A 25K volume pedal should be used when the device after the pedal has a low impedance input (10's of K). Any device designed to be put in a pedal change has a high impedance input. It's better to use a 250K pedal after a buffered pedal in a pedal change because you can only assume that pedals expect to see high impedance inputs after them.

The placement of the volume pedal depends on two things. The desired effect on distortion and loading of the pups. Any pot based volume pedal placed after a guitar and before a buffer has the potential for treble loss. High impedance pups like humbuckers or hot pickups are more susceptible to tone loss. Putting a volume pedal before distortion allow you to control the saturation of the distortion from the volume pedal. A volume pedal placed after distortion allows control of volume without affecting the saturation of the distortion.
#8
I've tried a few volume pedals.
The Visual Sound Visual Volume works for me, although the taper on the pot is not ideal. The volume level rises from 0 to around 5 or so to quickly IMO (Iin My Opinion). But I have adapted to that.
It has a column of LEDs that visually show you where your volume level is. I find that handy.
Visual Sound is supposed to be working on a better pot taper for this issue (I emailed them about my concerns).

The Diamond compressor is well liked around here. I haven't tried one myself yet though.
I have a Boss CS-3 Compressor. It does what I need it to do, but its not the best one around. I mainly use it for Southern Rock style playing.
But they do cost less than the Diamond.

Tuners....As said before, the TC Electronics Polytune is another favored tuner.
A tuner should always go first in the signal chain though.

I have a Pedaltrain Pro and also use a Voodoo Lab Pedal Power Plus 2.
Both fill my needs well.

Where to put things in your signal chain is personal preference, but there are guidelines that you can start with.
You can check the Pedalboard thread. It has a little diagram on pedal order to help get you started.
There are also loads of pictures of other peoples pedalboards to give you a rough idea on how you can experiment yourself.

I have put my volume pedal at the front of my signal chain and at the end. Both work well depending on your needs. I currently have it at the end of my signal chain, before the amp input.

I quit playing for 15 years. My then future ex-wife didn't like me doing rehearsals 4 - 5 nights a week, then gigging on the weekends. Being home 1 night a week kinda pissed her off. I took it back up a few years ago.
As such, at 51, I'm sort of the "old fart" around here, but as far as playing skills and general knowledge of the technicalities associated with guitars, amps, pedals etc., I am in no way the most knowledgeable one here, but I can hold my own. Being involved in the electronics industry off and on for over 30 years has been beneficial in that regard.

And a little warning...There are a few of us here that can be a bit sarcastic with our humor. And then there are the ones that are just plain assholes. Try not to take any of that shit to seriously.

Have fun.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Sep 14, 2011,
#9
Thanks Rob

I am 43, 3 kids and i understand. i am on alot of recording forums and am pretty forum savvy. i try and ask pertinent and clear questions and i do use a search button

i can take it all pretty well

thanks!
#10
Quote by jam85

1) thinking about a nice comp/sustain pedal? what can you recommend here? and then where would you put it in my setup? is it the first pedal in the chain? is it in the stereo loop pedals or direct? do these pedals really make a difference?

A Keeley or MXR would be my recommendations. Yeah, they make a difference (but, shhh, not massive)


2) a good tuner pedal, and i know this sounds dumb but i truly haven't done this in years and actually never had one before, where would it go and what would you recommend?

Korg Pitchblack is widely accepted as one of the best, Although the new Boss TU3 is also very very good. A used TU2 could keep your costs down but still high quality. That said, you can pick up accurate (non-pedal) korg etc tuners for £10


3) looking at a pedal train pro, gig bag, for my pedals? thoughts on this? i was told the voodoo power supply that fits it would not work with my tube blackstar pedals? due to tubes/voltage i guess.

Nah. Lay out your pedals on the floor, all hooked up. More fun, especially as you won't be needing to take them anywhere (if I take my pedals anywhere, I usually just chuck them in my rucksack ha). If you get a bit OCD, spend a weekend with some IKEA wood and glue and make your own pedalboard (some previous peoples ones are around in GB&C).
Also, you can get adapter tips for some powersupplies/pedals.


4) wouldn't mind an overall volume pedal, but again no idea where to put it, or what one to use? thoughts and recommendations would be great

I'll go out on a limb and suggest a Morley or EB volume pedal (although can't recommend on experience). It goes in the fx loop.
However, a better recommendation would be the MXR 10band EQ, which can boost volumes as well as shape your tone. Much more useful.


5) while the verb is nice on the blackstar, i would like to have a clean dry channel so what would be a great verb pedal? i might get the blackstar ones as these are really nice, but just wondering what you all think? and sorry but does this go in the effects loop or part of the direct ?

Sorry, but why are you buying a reverb if you like the amp standard one? (Cheap reverb pedals are easy to come by though - as are very high quality expensive ones.)


Feel free to argue and dispute ha
call me ziggy.
Last edited by earthisearthis at Sep 14, 2011,
#11
the reverb on the amp works across all the channels i think, so i woudl like to turn it off altogether for more control. so if i go to channel 3 (lead sound) and want verb i cna turn it on with the pedal, but then when i jump back to channel 2 for my rhythm sound i would like it to be a different verb setting (probably the amp one but turned to a drier level)

make sense? so really for more control
#12
Quote by fly135
This post is a bit misleading. A 25K volume pedal does not preserve treble. Putting a volume pedal after a buffer does, and the type of volume pedal after the buffer is irrelevant. The myth is that you need a 25K pedal after a buffer. This is not true, nor is it necessarily desirable.

A 25K volume pedal should be used when the device after the pedal has a low impedance input (10's of K). Any device designed to be put in a pedal change has a high impedance input. It's better to use a 250K pedal after a buffered pedal in a pedal change because you can only assume that pedals expect to see high impedance inputs after them.

The placement of the volume pedal depends on two things. The desired effect on distortion and loading of the pups. Any pot based volume pedal placed after a guitar and before a buffer has the potential for treble loss. High impedance pups like humbuckers or hot pickups are more susceptible to tone loss. Putting a volume pedal before distortion allow you to control the saturation of the distortion from the volume pedal. A volume pedal placed after distortion allows control of volume without affecting the saturation of the distortion.


Thanks for correcting me. I had read about this somewhere and that's what I understood from it.. It was wrong probably..
#13
Quote by BrainCrasher
Thanks for correcting me. I had read about this somewhere and that's what I understood from it.. It was wrong probably..
Well the part about having a buffer in front of the volume pedal to prevent tone loss was exactly correct. However, Ernie Ball's coining of the term active and passive for it's volume pedals (which are both passive) has led to some understandable incorrect deductions among the consumer.

Simply put it has led people to believe that a buffer, which is active would steer you towards a volume pedal for active circuits. And that's where the problem lies. It's not whether it's an active circuit, but what kind of active circuit. Line level circuits typically have low output impedances (~1K ohm) and relatively low input impedances (~10K ohms). The ratio of input to output impedance should be about 10 to 1 to prevent loading the output. To get a good sweep on a volume pedal in such a circuit you would want a volume pot in the 10's of K ohm range (i.e. the 25K active pedal). That's because the value of the volume pot needs to be near the input impedance of the following device to get a smooth sweeping voltage divider.

But pedals must have input impedances of the 500K to 1M ohm range to work properly when placed in a instrument/pedal chain. So even a buffered pedal expects to be in a high impedance circuit. The buffer is there to protect the high impedance from loading. But it does not convert the instrument chain to a low impedance circuit. So yes a good strong buffer in front of a 25K volume pedal will be ok. But there is no advantage in using the 25K pedal. It's possible that you have a pedal with a good buffer feeding a pedal with a weak output driver. So if you put the 25K VP after the weak output driver you would get tone suck even though you thought the buffer made the circuit active.

That was long winded but hopefully explained it well enough to see what's going on.
#14
for me i was looking at the volume pedal as controlling the overall level of whatever signal i was using, the whole chain. i guess i can use the volume knob though
#15
for me i was looking at the volume pedal as controlling the overall level of whatever signal i was using, the whole chain. i guess i can use the volume knob though
#16
Volume pedals are handy. You can put it in your amp's fx loop to control volume without having to worry about tone suck.
#17
Just a tip. Usually a compressor pedal really isn't that necessary. Sustain should ideally come from the guitar and your own technique. Compressors are indeed useful if you're playing country, or maybe if you're playing gigs, but you probably won't need one.
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