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#1
Well since I give lessons now I want to make sure that I'm not giving out any misinformation. I'd really hate myself if I was spreading ignorance and whatnot. So to make sure my foundation is decent I would REALLY appreciate it if you guys could test my theory...Just like you've done for several lumps of scum in the past...Only rules: No modal crap, no post-tonal/atonal crap, and remember I have a very poor understanding of counterpoint so go easy on me in that department...
#2
what key is this progression in?

G7 Am7 C7 F

if i got that same progression and youre imprvising over it what scales would be goodto play over it?


i contributed
#3
Basic One: what scale number is the dominant?

Harder One: Notes in a C half diminished 7 chord.
first headbang stack.


#4
@supersac, Fmajor. I would improvise with the Fmajor scale and play around with the #4 during the G7

@randumb, the basic one is the 5th scale number, the harder one is C, Eb, Gb, Bb
#5
What kind of scale is this?

A B C# D# F G A

What chords would be in this progression and how would they be spelt if you are in the key of G? (Give lead sheet style chord names and spell the chord out afterward with note names)

G: Imaj7 V7/ii ii V7 Imaj7
#6
e|--2--3--3--0-|
B|--4--2--3--2-|
G|--2--1--2--0-|
D|--4--0--2--2-|
A|--2--2--2--0-|
E|-----0--3--2-|


Chords, key + progression.

What scale(s) would you use to solo?
#7
Quote by BlaketheHero
What kind of scale is this?

A B C# D# F G A

What chords would be in this progression and how would they be spelt if you are in the key of G? (Give lead sheet style chord names and spell the chord out afterward with note names)

G: Imaj7 V7/ii ii V7 Imaj7

That would be the whole tone scale. That actually took me a while to recognize then I felt stupid when I figured it out lol.

I don't really know what lead sheet style would be..I guess that's the next thing for me to figure out? But the chords would be:

Gmajor7 A7 Aminor D7 Gmajor7

Gmajor7: G-B-D-F#
A7: A-C#-E-G
Aminor: A-C-E
D7: D-F#-A-C
#8
That V7/ii is the secondary dominant of the ii, so it would actually be an E7. It's not a dominant seventh chord on the second degree. That'd written as II7.
The guy's a beast, but he uses 8s. So he's shit.
-juckfush on Alex Hutchings.
#9
Quote by deHufter
e|--2--3--3--0-|
B|--4--2--3--2-|
G|--2--1--2--0-|
D|--4--0--2--2-|
A|--2--2--2--0-|
E|-----0--3--2-|


Chords, key + progression.

What scale(s) would you use to solo?

B7, Gmajor13(b9, #11)/E, Gmajor13, A7/F#

Key of Gmajor
III7-I-I-II7

I would use the Gmajor scale, and probably use a #5 over the B7, a b9 and #11 over the Gmajor13(b9, #11), and a #11 over the A7/F#. This took me forever!!
#10
Quote by VeilOfMaya
That V7/ii is the secondary dominant of the ii, so it would actually be an E7. It's not a dominant seventh chord on the second degree. That'd written as II7.

oh ok i misread it actually but i wouldn't have gotten that either way lol thanks
#11
Quote by TMVATDI
B7, Gmajor13(b9, #11)/E, Gmajor13, A7/F#

Key of Gmajor
III7-I-I-II7



B7 is correct. Key isn't G major.
#12
Fill out the most appropriate chord on the question mark (A certain convention):

Em - ? - B


Analyse this progression, and tell me what you see:

CM7 - A7#11 - Ab9b5 - G


Last two to test your creativity:

Walking bass line all 8ths. Fill out the chords which fit the bassline.
- End on E(M7)
- At least 1 altered chord
e|---------------------
B|---------------------
G|---------------------
D|---------------------
A|---7-----8-9-----6-7-
E|-----6-5-----8-7-----

and....
Fill out the chords to the melody; (melody is all 8th notes):
*HINT*: There's a certain progression which "fits best".

e|--------------------------9-12-11-7-----|---
B|-------7-10-9----------10-----------7-8-|-9-
G|---8-9-----------10-11------------------|---
D|-9------------11------------------------|---
A|----------------------------------------|---
E|----------------------------------------|---


Hope I did not make errors, since I just wrote this stuff from my head and it's 3:20AM, but I think it's alright.
Have fun

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Sep 18, 2011,
#13
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Fill out the most appropriate chord on the question mark:

Em - ? - B



That's kind of an unfair question, isn't it? "Appropriate" is subjective--perhaps 'strongest' is what you're looking for?
Nothing that is worthwhile in life will ever come easy.
#14
In bar 4 of a 12 bar blues in A, what arpeggios would you superimpose (assuming the harmony is static on the I7) to imply a ii-V approach to the IV7 chord which comes in at bar 5.

If a Blues is ever called at a jam session (it frequently is), you can use this musical device and you'll sound pretty sophisticated. Especially if in the company of anyone who really knows about good Blues playing.

So, theory's good. It's even better when applied to the instrument.
Last edited by mdc at Sep 18, 2011,
#15
Quote by soviet_ska
That's kind of an unfair question, isn't it? "Appropriate" is subjective--perhaps 'strongest' is what you're looking for?



I know; but I will review his answers and ask why he chose them and give pointers.

It's good to teach theory, but it's better too teach someone too use theory, but that's just my opinion

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#16
Quote by deHufter
B7 is correct. Key isn't G major.

hhm...at first i called the 2nd chord E13(#9), but after getting the other chords I felt like it made more sense as a G. I'm completely stumped...
#17
Quote by TMVATDI
B7, Gmajor13(b9, #11)/E, Gmajor13, A7/F#

It doesn't contain a 7th, so G6/9 would be better.
#18
Quote by TMVATDI
hhm...at first i called the 2nd chord E13(#9), but after getting the other chords I felt like it made more sense as a G. I'm completely stumped...


First guess is always the best

So mdc got the 3rd one, until now we have:

B7 - E13#9 - G6add9 - ?

Listen where it resolves to...that's your key.
What is the most logic name for the last chord?
Last edited by deHufter at Sep 18, 2011,
#19
Simplifying the chords and playing them in typical root positions, it sounds like it would resolve to D Major, so a plagal cadence. So the last chord could be a rootless Dmaj11. The only problem is that there is a half step interval between F# G in Dmaj11.

Anyhow I think it is,

D Major

V/ii - V/V - IV - I
Last edited by mdc at Sep 19, 2011,
#20
Hey guys my computer's running slow I'll get back to this soon, just letting you know I'm not just too lazy lol
#21
Quote by deHufter
First guess is always the best

So mdc got the 3rd one, until now we have:

B7 - E13#9 - G6add9 - ?

Listen where it resolves to...that's your key.
What is the most logic name for the last chord?

the "where it resolves" thing isn't new for me at all, but this progression is weird because the G6add9 sounds resolved to me and then that next weird chord comes about and my ears don't really know what to make of it...Is it F#minorb9? It almost sounds like its most resolved at B7 but that doesn't make much sense to me, dominant7 chords shouldn't really sound the most resolved, right? Are you guys SURE the key isn't Gmajor? My ears and logic are giving me multiple ways to handle this progresion and I feel like any of them would work just as well if I was really in the situation where I had this progression thrown at me and really needed to jam around it.
#22
Quote by mdc
It doesn't contain a 7th, so G6/9 would be better.

Since there's an F# in the last chord and the B7, I kind of assumed that implied the major7, right??
#23
Quote by mdc
In bar 4 of a 12 bar blues in A, what arpeggios would you superimpose (assuming the harmony is static on the I7) to imply a ii-V approach to the IV7 chord which comes in at bar 5.

If a Blues is ever called at a jam session (it frequently is), you can use this musical device and you'll sound pretty sophisticated. Especially if in the company of anyone who really knows about good Blues playing.

So, theory's good. It's even better when applied to the instrument.

Eminor and Amajor right?
#24
Eminor and Amajor right?
E minor is right. A major is also correct.... if you're dealing with it as a triad. What if it was a 7th type chord?

Since there's an F# in the last chord and the B7, I kind of assumed that implied the major7, right??

I'll leave deHufter to deal with it, since it's his progression.
Last edited by mdc at Sep 25, 2011,
#25
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Fill out the most appropriate chord on the question mark (A certain convention):

Em - ? - B


Analyse this progression, and tell me what you see:

CM7 - A7#11 - Ab9b5 - G


Last two to test your creativity:

Walking bass line all 8ths. Fill out the chords which fit the bassline.
- End on E(M7)
- At least 1 altered chord
e|---------------------
B|---------------------
G|---------------------
D|---------------------
A|---7-----8-9-----6-7-
E|-----6-5-----8-7-----

and....
Fill out the chords to the melody; (melody is all 8th notes):
*HINT*: There's a certain progression which "fits best".

e|--------------------------9-12-11-7-----|---
B|-------7-10-9----------10-----------7-8-|-9-
G|---8-9-----------10-11------------------|---
D|-9------------11------------------------|---
A|----------------------------------------|---
E|----------------------------------------|---


Hope I did not make errors, since I just wrote this stuff from my head and it's 3:20AM, but I think it's alright.
Have fun

I'd say Aminor or Amajor woud make the most sense in that first progression. In the second progression, does the third chord have a Ab or a b9? hard to tell which part the "b" is talking about. have't analyzed it yet since i don't know that bit of info.

In quarter notes, the chords E fully diminished7, Aminor7, F#7(#9), B7, Emaj7 sound good to me for the walking bassline.

I'll figure out that melody later, I'm tired...
#26
Quote by mdc
E minor is right. A major is also correct.... if you're dealing with it as a triad. What if it was a 7th type chord?

What if which chord was a 7th? the IV? the I? the ii-V thing?
#27
I should've said "arpeggio" since that's what we're dealing with. So in the ii-V approach, what 7th type arpeggio's could you use? After you've identified those, it can get more interesting.
Last edited by mdc at Sep 25, 2011,
#28
Quote by mdc
I should've said "arpeggio" since that's what we're dealing with. So in the ii-V approach, what 7th type arpeggio's could you use? After you've identified those, it can get more interesting.

see what i thought you meant with this ii-V stuff is the ii-V using the overal progression's IV as your I. so if its the key of A, IV is D, and the ii-V of D would be Eminor Amajor. If you want sevenths, Eminor7 and A7. I think the ii might be cooler as a II7 so E7. An E7 arpeggio then an A7 arpeggio, over the A7 (I7) chord, for 4 measures I think would sound nice, and lead nicely into the D7 (IV7) part.
#29
Yeah II7 is also cool. To add more tension with the V7(E7) arpgeggio, what could you do with it?

To resolve on the IV7, what would be a good note? Other than the most obvious, which would be D.
Last edited by mdc at Sep 25, 2011,
#30
Quote by mdc
Yeah II7 is also cool. To add more tension with the V7(E7) arpgeggio, what could you do with it?

To resolve on the IV7, what would be a good note? Other than the most obvious, which would be D.

the E7 is the II, the V7 is the A7...if we're still talking in relation to the D, but that's getting hard to keep track of...so i dont really know how to answer that question. i'm tired right now but i've had many blues jam sessions, i get pretty creative with it usually, although i'm probly lacking a lot of the more formal fundamentals of blues.

A lot of melodies and solos i do resolve to the major third of a chord, F# could be a good note.
#31
Quote by TMVATDI
the E7 is the II, the V7 is the A7...if we're still talking in relation to the D, but that's getting hard to keep track of...so i dont really know how to answer that question. i'm tired right now but i've had many blues jam sessions, i get pretty creative with it usually, although i'm probly lacking a lot of the more formal fundamentals of blues.

A lot of melodies and solos i do resolve to the major third of a chord, F# could be a good note.

F# is spot on. Yeah still talking in relation to the D. You can add altered tensions to the V.
#32
Quote by TMVATDI
I'd say Aminor or Amajor woud make the most sense in that first progression. In the second progression, does the third chord have a Ab or a b9? hard to tell which part the "b" is talking about. have't analyzed it yet since i don't know that bit of info.

In quarter notes, the chords E fully diminished7, Aminor7, F#7(#9), B7, Emaj7 sound good to me for the walking bassline.

I'll figure out that melody later, I'm tired...



Why would Am or A make the most sense?

(walking bassline): nice progression, good use of tension.

Oh and the Ab9b5 is an Ab7 chord with a major 2nd added (regular ninth)

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#33
Quote by TMVATDI
It almost sounds like its most resolved at B7 but that doesn't make much sense to me, dominant7 chords shouldn't really sound the most resolved, right?


Key is B major with borrowed chords from B minor.
#34
Quote by deHufter
Key is B major with borrowed chords from B minor.

oh dude if that's really all it is i gotta work on this. B7 isn't from Bmajor or Bminor though. when i write progressions i tend to not think of non-diatonic chords as being barrowed from anything, if i ever analyze it i just come up with ways they work in context. i guess that's an important gap of knowledge/technique i kind of skipped out on using, i'll review it.
#35
Quote by mdc
F# is spot on. Yeah still talking in relation to the D. You can add altered tensions to the V.

*writes complicated reason why the altered tensions wouldn't work, realizes mistake and deletes it all* lol. this is something i gotta try out next time i play the blues with anyone
#36
Quote by supersac
what key is this progression in?

G7 Am7 C7 F

if i got that same progression and youre imprvising over it what scales would be goodto play over it?


i contributed

He said this was in F major...pardon my ignorance, but how? the C7 is the dominant V to the F, sure, but the A is a major third to F, and thus should be major. Seeing as the third determines if a scale is major or minor... Am I missing something here? The ii has been changed to a dominant 7 too: I'm not getting this. Only two of the chords are in the Fmajor scale.

I r confuse.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
Last edited by Banjocal at Sep 29, 2011,
#37
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Why would Am or A make the most sense?

(walking bassline): nice progression, good use of tension.

Oh and the Ab9b5 is an Ab7 chord with a major 2nd added (regular ninth)

well it could be a sort of i-iv-V or i-IV-V thing, just one of those things i dont think about anymore, when i see i or I and then V my instinct is ii or II or II7 or IV or IV7 between them. Eminor going up a fourth or down a fifth sounds just fine, don't think anyone can really complain about that. It all just sounds nice to me. If the key is Eminor then the Aminor chord works well. i could find a few different ways to play the progression and a few different chords that would work to fill the blank spot that would all sound good depending on what you're looking for.

(walking bassline): thanks, it took me some thinking

i'll keep working on that last progression
#38
Quote by Banjocal
He said this was in F major...pardon my ignorance, but how? the C7 is the dominant V to the F, sure, but the A is a major third to F, and thus should be major. Seeing as the third determines if a scale is major or minor... Am I missing something here? The ii has been changed to a dominant 7 too: I'm not getting this. Only two of the chords are in the Fmajor scale.

I r confuzzeld.

there are no "limits" or "rules" to composing, theory is a way of analyzing compositions. therefore limiting songs to the chords that are "diatonic" to a key would go against the very purpose of music theory. if a song fits the chords of the major scale : I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii0, or the minor scale: i-ii0-III-iv-v-VI-VII, then the song is "diatonic," but you can switch things up and write songs that use any chords possible, any collections of notes possible, and the "key" is where it sounds most "resolved." A is actually the iii in Fmajor and is diatonic, it fits in the key perfectly. the only non-diatonic chord is G7, changing the ii to a II7. leads into the Amin7 and C7 nicely, which leads to Fmajor, which sounds most "resolved" and is therefore our I chord. so the key is Fmajor.
#39
Quote by TMVATDI
*writes complicated reason why the altered tensions wouldn't work, realizes mistake and deletes it all* lol. this is something i gotta try out next time i play the blues with anyone

Here's a starter. I picked out a chromatic passing note to the C#, immediately followed by a b9, ending on the major 3rd of the IV.
e|-----7-10p7-[color="Red"]8[/COLOR]-9-[color="Blue"]6[/COLOR]
b|---8-------------8-[color="Green"]7~[/COLOR]
g|-9-------

In bar 4, the Em arpeggio is to be played across beats 1 and 2, and the A7b9 arpeggio takes care of beats 3 and 4.

The majority of it is played in quaver triplets but you can adapt it to your own playing style.

Here's another one using a more angular approach. Grace note.

|---------------6-5---|---5-7---|
|-------------------8-[color="Purple"]|6[/COLOR]s7------|
|-----4-7p4-5s6-------|-------5-|
|---5-----------------|---------|
|-7-------------------|---------|
|---------------------|---------|

This time I wound up on the b7.
Last edited by mdc at Sep 29, 2011,
#40
Quote by mdc
Here's a starter. I picked out a chromatic passing note to the C#, immediately followed by a b9, ending on the major 3rd of the IV.
e|-----7-10p7-[color="Red"]8[/COLOR]-9-[color="Blue"]6[/COLOR]
b|---8-------------8-[color="Green"]7~[/COLOR]
g|-9-------

In bar 4, the Em arpeggio is to be played across beats 1 and 2, and the A7b9 arpeggio takes care of beats 3 and 4.

The majority of it is played in quaver triplets but you can adapt it to your own playing style.

Here's another one using a more angular approach. Grace note.

|---------------6-5---|---5-7---|
|-------------------8-[color="Purple"]|6[/COLOR]s7------|
|-----4-7p4-5s6-------|-------5-|
|---5-----------------|---------|
|-7-------------------|---------|
|---------------------|---------|

This time I wound up on the b7.

totally cool. my approach to typical blues has always been to use the major scale and add in the blue notes b3, b5, and b7 of each chord, so if it was the key of C for example i'd have the Cmajor scale plus C's b3, b5, and b7 plus F's b3, b5, and b7, plus G's b3, b5, and b7, and then the techniques i typically use for outside-tones regardless of the genre/song type, like short chromatic bits and moving a melody up/down a fret, i usually think of it like "try to work in all 12 notes however the hell you can." blues is like a game to me where getting all the notes in and keeping a cool sound/style is the goal.

those are some nice approaches i'll have to try out. unfortunately i dont have many good musicians to jam with ssoo it'll be a while until i have an opportunity to try any of this in a group
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