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#1
If you look at the arsenal of any well known guitar player, the electrics used are mostly always Fenders, Gibsons, ESP, Ibanez.

There are plenty other brands in the market that can make guitars that are sometimes equally good and maybe even better than the Fenders and the Gibsons like Cort, Godin, Greg Bennett ,etc , but it is not often that you will see them using a lot of these brands.

What is the reason ?

How much if it has to do with the Brand popularity and how much of it has to do with the quality and tone of the instrument ?
Last edited by joey78 at Sep 19, 2011,
#2
Preference
Sound
Feel
Endorsement
Nostalgia
Because they can
To look "cool", if you will
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#3
Because larger companies tend to have more money to give to artist who endorse there products.
...
#4
Get free customized stuff, more recognizable shape, most likely grew up playing on those brands and guitars... Some are better for certain genres than others... Lots of reasons.
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#5
If you had a choice between ten free guitars worth a few grand each and a $4000 guitar which one would you choose?
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#6
I don't know how long you've been playing man, but I have never played a Cort, Godin, or Greg bennett which has come even close to the quality, sound and feel of a top of the line guitar from one of the big companies.

These guitars get endorsed for a reason.
#7
Not everyone prefer's Gibson and Fender.

There are other brands you know.
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#8
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I don't know how long you've been playing man, but I have never played a Cort, Godin, or Greg bennett which has come even close to the quality, sound and feel of a top of the line guitar from one of the big companies.

These guitars get endorsed for a reason.

So according to what you're saying

A Fender Strat will be priced at 3 times that of a Godin Strat and you're paying 3 times the amount purely for the quality and not for the brand ?
Last edited by joey78 at Sep 19, 2011,
#9
Quote by joey78
So accordoing to what you're saying

A Fender Strat will be priced at 3 times that of a Godin Strat and you're paying 3 times the amount purely for the quality and not for the brand ?


Almost.

Because they are Fender they are allowed to charge whatever they want, as long as people buy it.
Where's Waldo?
#10
endorsements is a big part of it. if someone will pay you to use their guitars would you? what if they offered you money to do a signiture guitar?

Also, they are good guitars and if thats the sound you like, why not?
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#12
You have to figure all of the big name guitarists that endorse Fender and Gibson receive custom shop guitars, so they get some really high quality guitars for free. So anyone who wants to start the whole "but "INSERT BRAND NAME" is so much better than Gibson/Fender" argument aren't considering that the artist is getting a top of the line guitar from Gibson/Fender. Apparently the artist gets taken care of by Gibson and Fender, so they give the endorsement.

If I were a big artist and I could go to any manufacturer, I sure wouldn't go to Cort or Samick or any other Korean factory. I'd go with Gibson, Fender, or Jackson(though they are owned by Fender)
#13
Quote by joey78
So according to what you're saying

A Fender Strat will be priced at 3 times that of a Godin Strat and you're paying 3 times the amount purely for the quality and not for the brand ?


The next time I find a $500 guitar that plays/sounds/feels like a $1500 American Deluxe Strat will be the first.

There's a hell of a lot more than brand name that goes into the price of a guitar, or any instrument for that matter.
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#15
whether gibsons and fenders are popular with the pros depends on the genre really. while gibsons and fenders are versatile, you don't see too many metal guitarists using them, often preferring what the likes of ESP and ibanez and such have to offer.

they are popular in most subgenres in rock because they are the guitars that defined the sounds associated with rock.

i think what the 'pros' use is their own choice, if they can have any guitar they want they will have whatever they want, and it's their choice that often leads to the popularity of that particular brand/model. other guitarists hear the cool sounds these guys make with the guitars and think "that's cool, i want to sound a bit more like that".
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#16
Good question.

Like many here have said it's about the endorsment money. Some of the most popular (and profitable) guitars that companies make are those of the "signature line", but wait, like many things in life, things aren't always as the appear.

Many of the big name guitarists can be very picky when it comes to thier guitar, asking their host company to make them a guitar with certain specifiations and quality. In many cases these big companies are unable to build to the players satisfaction.

This is where the ghostbuilder comes in. A ghostbuilder is a guitar builder and or luthier that makes a custom guitar for the artist but the host companies name gets put on the headstock.

When some poor kid lays down his savings on the Slash sig modal he believes hes getting the same guitar slash is using, but the facts of the matter say otherwise, the late Kris Derrig built Slashes 59 LP replicas and later it was done by a guy that Slash refered to as Max but many believe Max to be a builder named Peter Barant.

There are many other artists that do the same.
#17
Quote by chadreed32
Almost.

Because they are Fender they are allowed to charge whatever they want, as long as people buy it.

not really.


there are usa made godin's that are just as amazing as american strats. there is G&L the true fender, and their stuff blows fender out the water. there are also custom shop guitar makers, like kline.
#18
Quote by BlackbirdPie
When some poor kid lays down his savings on the Slash sig modal he believes hes getting the same guitar slash is using, but the facts of the matter say otherwise, the late Kris Derrig built Slashes 59 LP replicas and later it was done by a guy that Slash refered to as Max but many believe Max to be a builder named Peter Barant.

this is true but i think more people also need to understand that even if that wasn't true, and the signature models the actual artist played was one off the same production line as the ones in the shops, it still wouldn't be 'the same' guitar, and in different hands it wouldn't sound the same anyway, even if it was the same guitar.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#19
the other thing worth pointing out (in addition to the endorsements/they get good custom shop models thing) is that a lot of non-players will have heard of fender and gibson, and a lot of people will think a band's no good unless they use the correct brand name stuff. Now, this might not matter that much, but they're probably not going to take the risk either.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#20
Quote by BlackbirdPie
Good question.

Like many here have said it's about the endorsment money. Some of the most popular (and profitable) guitars that companies make are those of the "signature line", but wait, like many things in life, things aren't always as the appear.

Many of the big name guitarists can be very picky when it comes to thier guitar, asking their host company to make them a guitar with certain specifiations and quality. In many cases these big companies are unable to build to the players satisfaction.

This is where the ghostbuilder comes in. A ghostbuilder is a guitar builder and or luthier that makes a custom guitar for the artist but the host companies name gets put on the headstock.


When some poor kid lays down his savings on the Slash sig modal he believes hes getting the same guitar slash is using, but the facts of the matter say otherwise, the late Kris Derrig built Slashes 59 LP replicas and later it was done by a guy that Slash refered to as Max but many believe Max to be a builder named Peter Barant.

There are many other artists that do the same.



If you really think the big name companies cannot build top quality guitars or afford some of the best builders around, your mental.

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#21
yeah i mean you're often paying a premium for the name, but if a big name player goes to fender or gibson and asks them to make him/her a nice guitar, they'll probably manage it.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
I heard that Gibson and Fender outsource their signature guitars to Samick because they can't meet the high expectations of the artist...


#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
the other thing worth pointing out (in addition to the endorsements/they get good custom shop models thing) is that a lot of non-players will have heard of fender and gibson, and a lot of people will think a band's no good unless they use the correct brand name stuff. Now, this might not matter that much, but they're probably not going to take the risk either.


So basically the Intel argument? "Nobody will ever get fired for buying Intel."

Besides the argument of the big names taking care of the gear of popular/influential guitarists it is also a kind of vicious circle.
Most people will indeed recognise the Fender and Gibson models and when they start to pick up a guitar those are the exact models they will first look at. (copy mostly)
Once they got used to the sound/feel/looks/... it will be more difficult to change afterwards and the 'real thing' will be higher on the priority list than any completely different model from a different brand.
Just because I have some strong opinions doesn't mean I agree with everything I say.
#24
Quote by Tom 1.0
If you really think the big name companies cannot build top quality guitars or afford some of the best builders around, your mental.



Wow, name calling, very mature, a true mark of intelligence.

Large companies are tooled and set up to build lots of guitars, often things that are mass produced can't quite match products crafted and put together by hand. Even Gibson's custom shop is limited to what it can and can't do.

I'm not bashing Gibson, I happen to own many of them including the second guitar that I bought in 72 , a custom LP, but to say they are even close to a custom builders quality would be ludacris.
#25
the other thing worth pointing out (in addition to the endorsements/they get good custom shop models thing) is that a lot of non-players will have heard of fender and gibson, and a lot of people will think a band's no good unless they use the correct brand name stuff. Now, this might not matter that much, but they're probably not going to take the risk either.[/QUOTI


I have a feeling that 98% of the music buying public wouldn't know the difference between a strat or a LP nor would they really care.
#26
If you really think an independent luthier who is good enough for a company like Gibson to outsource a custom job to them would

A: be willing to remain anonymous
B: not already have an existing company
C: allow the major brands to take the credit and take away their own business
D: not already work in a top end custom shop


Your a bit of a ding bat.

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#27
john mayer just crashed fender custom shop and asked to build his dream guitar, and he did.
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#28
Quote by BlackbirdPie
I have a feeling that 98% of the music buying public wouldn't know the difference between a strat or a LP nor would they really care.

i'm pretty sure he wasn't even referring to 98% of the music buying public. he was referring to would-be guitarists who decide they want to start playing and want to find out more about different guitars.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#29
Quote by ECistheBest
john mayer just crashed fender custom shop and asked to build his dream guitar, and he did.

This.

If you have the money and the guitar is still recognisable as a Fender guitar (Fender headstock and body style) they will build you pretty much ANYTHING you are after.
Same goes for Gibson (different body styles and headstock options though).
#30
Quote by Tom 1.0
If you really think an independent luthier who is good enough for a company like Gibson to outsource a custom job to them would

A: be willing to remain anonymous
B: not already have an existing company
C: allow the major brands to take the credit and take away their own business
D: not already work in a top end custom shop


Your a bit of a ding bat.



Bought a Slash signature modal did ya?

Slash went on public record saying who made his guitars.

Paul Reed Smith before he became big made Ted Nugent's byrdland.

There are many examples of this throughout the industry.


Sorry if the truth hurts.
#31
name players use what they like and what will get the job done. guys that get endorsements are really few compared to the total amount of name players using a brand. not everyone is a ***** that will sell his name for freebies either (cough dave mustaine cough).

Fender and Gibson have been making pro calibre gear for amny years and are the most associated with rock. look at how much classic rock was made with just those 2 brands. as mentioned this is changing and in certain circles (metal for sure). 30 years from now this same thread will have say PRS and Jackson for instance.
#32
Quote by BlackbirdPie
Paul Reed Smith before he became big made Ted Nugent's byrdland.

got a source for this?


i was going to add that carlos and ted didn't really care about what the public thought when they started using PRS instruments.

if what the TS is stating is true, that artists only use Fender and Gibson, then Tom Anderson, PRS, Nik Huber, Suhr etc, wouldn't be seen on stages around the world.

yet they are.
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#34
Quote by gregs1020
got a source for this?


i was going to add that carlos and ted didn't really care about what the public thought when they started using PRS instruments.

if what the TS is stating is true, that artists only use Fender and Gibson, then Tom Anderson, PRS, Nik Huber, Suhr etc, wouldn't be seen on stages around the world.

yet they are.



My brother was ( I say was because he passed 2002) was a very good patent attorney who specialized in musical intruments, so he was often retained by many of the big makers. He really new the ins and outs about who was using what.

As far as written documentation no, Slash did an interview for one of the guitar rags some years ago, as for which one I really can't recall offhand. As for the Nugent brydland let me see if I can find something.
'
#35
$€$€
Let's put it this way. Do you think Steve Vai payed for those 10 JEMs in his guitar stand?
#36
Quote by W4RP1G
You have to figure all of the big name guitarists that endorse Fender and Gibson receive custom shop guitars, so they get some really high quality guitars for free. So anyone who wants to start the whole "but "INSERT BRAND NAME" is so much better than Gibson/Fender" argument aren't considering that the artist is getting a top of the line guitar from Gibson/Fender. Apparently the artist gets taken care of by Gibson and Fender, so they give the endorsement.

If I were a big artist and I could go to any manufacturer, I sure wouldn't go to Cort or Samick or any other Korean factory. I'd go with Gibson, Fender, or Jackson(though they are owned by Fender)


Not quite.

(a) Some of them pay for their guitars. There's plenty of stories of "picked this up in a pawn (or other) shop". Sure they will get some guitars straight from the manufacturer but not always.

(b) Some big name guitarists use plenty of non-Custom Shop gear. Eric Clapton/Alex Turner have both used Mexican Strats for a period, Albert Hammond Jr uses a MIJ Strat. I can't think of many others immediately but there's plenty of guitarists using mid/low-end gear.


TS - The reason why many pros play these guitars is as follows:

They are big brands because they are some of the oldest and produce great guitars. On the back of that the old guitar heroes played those guitars. Teenage Slash, Frusciante, Derek Trucks, John Mayer or whoever wanted to sound like their heroes (Joe Perry, Jimmy Page, Hendrix, Clapton, SRV) so they bought the same guitars as them, just as we do now to try and recreate our heroes. This chain will go on forever.

Human beings are quite strange about brand loyalty and things like that. I don't know the deep psychology behind it but once we're set on a certain brand we can be quite hard to shake.

Now we have the internet where we can discuss guitars and brands to death, but back in the day there wasn't necessarily the same range of resources available. Going for the Gibson and Fender was the safe bet because you'd heard of them, knew the brand, and knew that pros played them. Then once you're bedded with that brand it can be hard to shake.

Fender, Gibson, Epiphone, Rickenbacker, Gretsch, ESP, Ibanez have become such big and recognisable brands for musicians that they are now the GO-TO people.

Not only do you have the same guitar as your hero but you're also buying into something familiar, a piece of history, a brand you can rely on etc. Then when you know what you're doing you can get custom stuff made or go for obscure brands.

New brands can come along and raise their profile too, but that takes time.

The other main reason I'd say is that now (when vintage gear is 40/50 years old) vintage guitar shops are chock full of old Fenders, Gibsons, Fender amps, Martin acoustics, Epiphones, Gretsches and Marshall amps. Lots of pros go for vintage gear so it's natural they'll end up with one of these brands.

Apologies for rambling. It's a terrible habit.
Last edited by Duv at Sep 19, 2011,
#38
Quote by Duv
Not quite.

(a) Some of them pay for their guitars. There's plenty of stories of "picked this up in a pawn (or other) shop". Sure they will get some guitars straight from the manufacturer but not always.

(b) Some big name guitarists use plenty of non-Custom Shop gear. Eric Clapton/Alex Turner have both used Mexican Strats for a period, Albert Hammond Jr uses a MIJ Strat. I can't think of many others immediately but there's plenty of guitarists using mid/low-end gear.


TS - The reason why many pros play these guitars is as follows:

They are big brands because they are some of the oldest and produce great guitars. On the back of that the old guitar heroes played those guitars. Teenage Slash, Frusciante, Derek Trucks, John Mayer or whoever wanted to sound like their heroes (Joe Perry, Jimmy Page, Hendrix, Clapton, SRV) so they bought the same guitars as them, just as we do now to try and recreate our heroes. This chain will go on forever.

Human beings are quite strange about brand loyalty and things like that. I don't know the deep psychology behind it but once we're set on a certain brand we can be quite hard to shake.

Now we have the internet where we can discuss guitars and brands to death, but back in the day there wasn't necessarily the same range of resources available. Going for the Gibson and Fender was the safe bet because you'd heard of them, knew the brand, and knew that pros played them. Then once you're bedded with that brand it can be hard to shake.

Fender, Gibson, Epiphone, Rickenbacker, Gretsch, ESP, Ibanez have become such big and recognisable brands for musicians that they are now the GO-TO people.

Not only do you have the same guitar as your hero but you're also buying into something familiar, a piece of history, a brand you can rely on etc. Then when you know what you're doing you can get custom stuff made or go for obscure brands.

New brands can come along and raise their profile too, but that takes time.

The other main reason I'd say is that now (when vintage gear is 40/50 years old) vintage guitar shops are chock full of old Fenders, Gibsons, Fender amps, Martin acoustics, Epiphones, Gretsches and Marshall amps. Lots of pros go for vintage gear so it's natural they'll end up with one of these brands.

Apologies for rambling. It's a terrible habit.
That's true. I was more referring to people that have a sig model or a custom model that they play regularly though.

People are ridiculous with brand loyalty. I know guys that will only play Gibson and Fender, and others that will only buy American(though that's out of patriotism). I don't quite understand brand loyalties, especially to huge corporate giants that don't care if we live or die, just so long as they get paid. But I feel the same way about sports and loyalty to a team.

I do, however, see Japanese craftsmanship as being superior, so I buy mainly Japanese guitars and vehicles. But that just comes from years of experience, research, and observation.
#39
Quote by AcousticMirror
suhr more expensive than fender

Fixed
#40
Quote by Duv

Human beings are quite strange about brand loyalty and things like that. I don't know the deep psychology behind it but once we're set on a certain brand we can be quite hard to shake.

Human beings are afraid of being outcasts. This applies to many things, fashion, etc. The media plays a big part in this, but you could argue that it traces back to the times when being an outcast would equal death.
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