Page 1 of 2
#1
Im 18 right now, and my parents are pressuring me to go university to study something or to get a job as they hardly believe that guitar playing can get me financially further than subway busking. I always tell them that great players like Woody Guthrie started busking for food and that most buskers or financially poor guiatrists are just standard players and nothing more. I dedicate my whole time for reading about music and playing till my fingers hurt at the end of the day - but that wont cut it. Living on my own isnt an option as the prices for rent, food, and probably anything are cosniderably higher in my country than most western countries, and i dont want to be enslaved to some job that will suck out my playing time.


I know im going to play for my living no matter what happens, and im not going to study at a university just to "prove" im doing something in my life. (which we all know had decreased in value since there are more degree holders, higher tution prices, decreasing level of teaching throughout the years and just a bad job market.)

Im looking for some cold hard evidence, like the percentage of guitarists which are employed, the basic salary for a normal session player, the percentage of players which are sessionists or in a band - anything i can know about that field from the financial aspect.

Maybe with the correct information i can shatter thier bias about music which goes like "Either you succeed by luck like Eric Clapton or you play at the subway".
Last edited by Standarduser at Sep 22, 2011,
#2
Never give up hope that you'll make it, but take your parent's advice and go to university as well.

Yes, there are people who manage to make a living as a musician, but they are 1% of the people who hoped it would happen for them - and that is probably a high estimate, it's probably actually closer to 0.01%.

Don't throw away your chance of having a secure future in the hope that you are one of the lucky ones.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#3
It's a giant misconception that going to university will secure you a job. I know several people who went to university and still don't have a job and as a result they are £25,000
in debt.

Always follow your dream. If you don't aim high you will never get there. There is a lot of money to be made in music and you may as well do something you enjoy doing for a living.

It would still be worth you getting a part time job while studying the guitar. Have you considered going to a guitar school or music college part time ? This will gain you qualifications in the field of music and will give you contacts and jam buddies hopefully.

Sorry i couldnt give you any figures.
#4
Go to college and get to know people to have a network, thats how life works.

Beside i'm sure you'll find a second choice for your life at college, you might find an interesting course with maybe job opportunities
#5
Problem is i dont believe in luck. Ana Vidovic played from the age of 5 - is that a "luck" gained by plucking a four leaved clover? I dont think so.

I believe in hard work, in playing till my fingers hurt and reading about music and knowing about music more than anyone else. I know that there are alot who dont make it, but there are also 33% of college grads who are underemployed either.

I hardly believe that 1% of professional players are employed. There are people who learned at harvard and turn out to be broker dealers.

I just need some numbers or statistics to stop my parents bias about that "university is a sure bet" and "art is just a hobby".


There must be some kind of financial data about professional guitarists out there.
Last edited by Standarduser at Sep 22, 2011,
#6
Quote by mrbabo91
It's a giant misconception that going to university will secure you a job.

It won't secure you a job, but it will greatly improve your chances of getting one. Nothing can guarantee you a future, however focusing solely on something with such a small chance of success can almost guarantee failure.

Like I said, never give up hope, but don't be stupid about it and have a backup plan.

If you're that determined, the suggestion to go to uni and study something related to music is probably a good idea.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#7
Quote by Standarduser
I hardly believe that 1% of professional players are employed.

No, 100% of professional players are employed. That's why they are professional players. However they represent less than 1% of people like yourself who hoped it would happen for them.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#8
Quote by GaryBillington
It won't secure you a job, but it will greatly improve your chances of getting one. Nothing can guarantee you a future, however focusing solely on something with such a small chance of success can almost guarantee failure.

Like I said, never give up hope, but don't be stupid about it and have a backup plan.

If you're that determined, the suggestion to go to uni and study something related to music is probably a good idea.



I am a little afraid of music "teaching" as i always read about many guitarists who attended an art school and usually quit during the first year. Whys that?


And youre telling me that out of a million guitarists only 10,000 are employed? Are you counting the amateur guitarsits also?
Last edited by Standarduser at Sep 22, 2011,
#9
If you plan on being the " bandleader" make sure got a "good job". Something that pays at least $10 an hour while working a 32-40 hours. First you gotta consider rent, unless you live with your parents but you can't rely on them forever. Then there is gas, so you might need a mid sized gas guzzler for lugging around equipment to gigs and practice for jammng and meeting up with other players. Then you have bills, food. Take all of this out of your monthly allowance and this is your "band allowance" Oh yeah don't forget, cable, internet, and phone bills, and utilities and ur girlfriend too. Half of your total paycheck typically goes to your girlfriend or spouse.

So after all this, "this" i s your true band allowance. Scared yet?
Now equipment lets assume you have a decent guitar and a nice combo amp.
Well a combo amp won't do for live shows you need a halfstack $400 on craigslist.
PA system another $200-$500
backup guitar If you're lucky you can find one that just has cosmetic damage and get it for just under $150.

Pedals These are all optional by the way
Noisegate $25-$100 Don't worry about name brands they all pretty much do the same thing.
Chorus $25-150. You want those clean passages and leads that last forever right?
Delay $50-200 Consider this your solo pedal.
Distortion pedal $20-100. This is also your solo pedal. I don't use a distortion since I just use my amp distortion. Good moneysaver tip btw (I learned it from EVH)
Wah pedal $25-75


Picks $.50 cents at any music store for ANY SIZE!!!!
Strings $7.00 at any music store. Best to buy in bulk. Go to nakedstrings.com so you can select your own custom guages. Every guitar player has broken a string once in his/her life. I also knew this one guy who broke 4 in one week...
Cables $10-75.00 Again best to buy in bulk. Just buy the decent $10.00 cables.
Capo optional $5-75.00 yes I have seen some for $75 on ebay and guitar center.
Slide optional $5-$40
Chromatic tuner $5-$150 You wanna be in tune right? Don't be cocky just buy the damn tuner its $10. Best to buy the Fender Chromatic tuner or if you can spare the cash get a strobe pedal chromatic tuner also by Fender.

This is also optional Merchandise
Expect to spend a lot!!!!!!!!!!
And of course the website.
No, not myspace, Twitter, Facebook, reverbnation, Youtube or whatever social sites are out these days.
A real website you built from the ground up. Producers wanna see that you are a real musician and not some little kid who knows only three chords.

I'm pretty sure I missed a few things but who cares its 3a.m.
#10
Thanks but i was hoping for more "50 players out of 100 are amaters. 20 of 100 players play decently..." and things like that.
#11
Quote by Standarduser
I am a little afraid of music "teaching" as i always read about many guitarists who attended an art school and usually quit during the first year. Whys that?

Because music school is a lot harder than most people seem to believe, especially as you have to be able to read music up to the level, and play up to the level, and also play stuff that you may not want to play, or have no idea how to play. Most guitarists just play off tabs, and only play a couple of genres. Incidentally, a lot of that also applies with:
And youre telling me that out of a million guitarists only 10,000 are employed? Are you counting the amateur guitarsits also?

Most guitarists lack the skills and knowledge to professionally play. Then you factor in the number of jobs available, and that takes out more people. The thing you have to realise here is that there is a huge amount of guitarists.

And 100% of amateur guitarists aren't working as guitarists, just like 100% of professionals are. Take out the amateurs, and all that's left are professionals, because an amateur is someone who doesn't get paid to play.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#12
If you can sightread sheet music then you shouldn't have a problem. However I would go for uni so atleast you have a back up
JUST ANOTHER ANNOYING BIG STATUS
#13
as everyone else has said, and i'm gonna summarise, it's a VERY LONG SHOT thinking you're gonna be a pro guitarist, what with the way the music business is these days where everything that's computerised (black eyed peas as one primary example) massively outsells guitar based work and as such, 'proper' musicians are deteriorating.

by all means, follow your ambitions, BUT please for the love of god have a back-up plan. go to uni, study accountancy or medicine whatever and at least if you don't become a musician then at least you'll still have a well paid job at the end of it with money to spend on nice gear and stuff rather than struggling in the music industry for years!

real life example of person who have waited:
hugh laurie - went to film school, used acting as main career, played guitar etc in spare time, now is a blues musician with tours and cd's and everything

real life example of someone in pop music who fought through the arse end of the music industry:
katy perry - love or hate her, she's still sexier than you, and is richer than you. however she started singing at the age of 14, got into loads of debt travelling america to find people who would listen to her, 10 years on and she's now a millionaire with sell out tours and the such, BUT it's took years and hard work for her to get to where she is. but she is where she is because of the style of music she plays and also the fact she's fit...
Belief is a beautiful armour but makes for the heaviest sword.
#14
Quote by Standarduser
Thanks but i was hoping for more "50 players out of 100 are amaters. 20 of 100 players play decently..." and things like that.

There are literally millions of guitarists out there.

There are possibly a few thousand professionals. The rest are amateurs.

You do the maths.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#15
There was a good discussion about this in this thread https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1431101

You want some figures eh?

Here you go mate!

The average originals band will play 5 - 8 shows a year, for a total of $0 per gig.

I'll say they've had a good year and got 8 gigs. 8 x $0 = $0

Now what about original bands? They get work and pay. Sweet.

We'll say they play 2 gigs a month to be nice. We'll say it's half/half corporate gigs/private functions and the average pub. Corporate/private allow the musicians to come away with $200 each, the pubs $100 each. So there's an average of $150/gig.

After 24 gigs you get 24 x $150 = $3,600/year.

There ya go.


I regard myself as a hard working guitarist, I've played 27 gigs this year. I've made somewhere in the realm of $41,600. How did I do it? Well $40,000 came from my day job.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#16
Quote by mrbabo91
I know several people who went to university and still don't have a job and as a result they are £25,000
in debt.

There was a study a while back suggesting that the state of the economy when you first enter the workforce predicts your career earnings.
#17
Quote by Standarduser

I just need some numbers or statistics to stop my parents bias about that "university is a sure bet" and "art is just a hobby".


There must be some kind of financial data about professional guitarists out there.


I tried a search restricted to site:.ac.uk and got the following links that might be relevant.

A PhD Thesis "Becoming a musician"

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/staff/kb/Burland%20PhD.pdf

Prospects: music teacher
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/private_music_teacher_career_development.htm

Prospects: musician
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/musician_career_development.htm

Or the uk gov't career advice website 'Next Step'

https://nextstep.direct.gov.uk/planningyourcareer/jobprofiles/JobProfile1312/Pages/default.aspx

EDIT
If you don't mind paying, City Business Library offer a research service.

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Libraries/City_of_London_libraries/info_focus.htm
Last edited by another_dave at Sep 22, 2011,
#18
Actually rereading your post I have some questions for you TS.

Quote by Standarduser
Im 18 right now, and my parents are pressuring me to go university to study something or to get a job as they hardly believe that guitar playing can get me financially further than subway busking. I always tell them that great players like Woody Guthrie started busking for food and that most buskers or financially poor guiatrists are just standard players and nothing more. I dedicate my whole time for reading about music and playing till my fingers hurt at the end of the day - but that wont cut it. Living on my own isnt an option as the prices for rent, food, and probably anything are cosniderably higher in my country than most western countries, and i dont want to be enslaved to some job that will suck out my playing time.


You're complaining that your parents want you to study or get a job, and you refuse to move out. Grow up mate, they're not bagging out music per se, they're tired of you being a bum.


Quote by Standarduser
I know im going to play for my living no matter what happens, and im not going to study at a university just to "prove" im doing something in my life. (which we all know had decreased in value since there are more degree holders, higher tution prices, decreasing level of teaching throughout the years and just a bad job market.)



Well just go get a job then. Oh there's a bad job market. Whinge whinge whinge bla bla bla, I'll just sit here and play guitar.


Quote by Standarduser
Im looking for some cold hard evidence, like the percentage of guitarists which are employed, the basic salary for a normal session player, the percentage of players which are sessionists or in a band - anything i can know about that field from the financial aspect.


In addition to my stats above, I can also provide evidence that people with jobs make more money than those without jobs.

Quote by Standarduser
Maybe with the correct information i can shatter thier bias about music which goes like "Either you succeed by luck like Eric Clapton or you play at the subway".


Nope, luck is pretty much a main factor. It doesn't sound like you're in a band, or making an effort to get your music out there, so if you're hoping that opportunity is literally going to come knocking on your door, it won't.


What I'm trying to point out is that you're just complaining TS, and not doing anything about it. Your parents are annoyed that you don't do anything, and you're pointing to the guitar and going "yes that's why". I don't see you enrolling in a music course, or a music business course, you're ruling out all degrees and jobs, including those in the musical industry with the exception of those mentioned.

I guess you know that you need a degree in music to become a session musician. You should be able to read music too.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#19
Quote by AlanHB
Actually rereading your post I have some questions for you TS.


You're complaining that your parents want you to study or get a job, and you refuse to move out. Grow up mate, they're not bagging out music per se, they're tired of you being a bum.


Well just go get a job then. Oh there's a bad job market. Whinge whinge whinge bla bla bla, I'll just sit here and play guitar.


In addition to my stats above, I can also provide evidence that people with jobs make more money than those without jobs.


Nope, luck is pretty much a main factor. It doesn't sound like you're in a band, or making an effort to get your music out there, so if you're hoping that opportunity is literally going to come knocking on your door, it won't.


What I'm trying to point out is that you're just complaining TS, and not doing anything about it. Your parents are annoyed that you don't do anything, and you're pointing to the guitar and going "yes that's why". I don't see you enrolling in a music course, or a music business course, you're ruling out all degrees and jobs, including those in the musical industry with the exception of those mentioned.

I guess you know that you need a degree in music to become a session musician. You should be able to read music too.



And what about what ive read recently about music universities that have professors with little to no practical experience with performing and playing? How are there MANY musicians out there with no degree but great ability?

Youre saying the standard for being a session musician has changed from the 70's and now theyre demanding a knowlage and ability that is more "institutionalized?
#20
Quote by Standarduser

Youre saying the standard for being a session musician has changed from the 70's and now theyre demanding a knowlage and ability that is more "institutionalized?



All I wanted was a Pepsi...

And yes, it is. As has been said their a millions of guitarist, probably a lot of them thinking they are the shit and want to get paid session work. Much easier to know that some sort of standard is being upheld by knowing what their qualifications are.

If you don't have some proof that you're better than (academic or otherwise) then it's a no go. A session musician is expected to play almost any style next to flawlessly.

Also you've asked for opinion then argued against it, just because the rest of us also think you should do something with your life as a precaution, we're not saying you CAN'T do it. But that it's a lot hard then you think.


Quote by Standarduser


And youre telling me that out of a million guitarists only 10,000 are employed? Are you counting the amateur guitarsits also?


I recommend you learn what the words Amateur and Professional actually mean.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Sep 22, 2011,
#21
Quote by ChemicalFire
All I wanted was a Pepsi...

And yes, it is. As has been said their a millions of guitarist, probably a lot of them thinking they are the shit and want to get paid session work. Much easier to know that some sort of standard is being upheld by knowing what their qualifications are.

If you don't have some proof that you're better than (academic or otherwise) then it's a no go. A session musician is expected to play almost any style next to flawlessly.

Also you've asked for opinion then argued against it, just because the rest of us also think you should do something with your life as a precaution, we're not saying you CAN'T do it. But that it's a lot hard then you think.


I recommend you learn what the words Amateur and Professional actually mean.



I may have argued, now im just listening.

I am afraid of any "institutional" way of learning because i think it may be required to learn things in some harsh, robotic unefficent way(like it was at high school. dont take me for a bum for saying that - ive succeeded on many subjects without ever attending a class and just came for tests. im not saying im a genius, just that i find the orthodox teaching unefficent for me and can achieve higher resaults through learning in my own way)


Now i ask this: If i attend a music university, will i be introduced into many types of music geners in a productive way - or im just getting the updated high-school treatment? Are you suggesting a university just for the "ok papers" that ill be asked for, or itll really benefit me - even if im already intrested in every aspect of music?
#22
Your parents are right. If you're searching for rationalizations and justifications, you arem't going to find them here. You may be a great musician. Tom Scholz wen't to MIT, and still managed to be a successful guitarist. Tom Morello also college educated.

It really sounds like arguing why you should give everything in your life play the lottery and slot machines, because a lucky few make it. That's not a rational basis to put everything into it. You can put everything into it, but if you do so AND expect to win, you're not being rational. If you put everything into it AND expect NOT to win, then at least that's rational and mathematically correct.

It's for you to go out and study. I am going to go to your profile. If you are destined for the things that you say you want, you'd better have a lot of compelling evidence of your playing and progress by now, because if not, it's already too late.

EDIT - Yeah you have absolutely nothing in your profile.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Sep 22, 2011,
#23
Personally I wouldn't recommend going to uni for music performance. However, you seriously, seriously, seriously need to work at getting into good professional covers bands, yesterday, if you want to make a living at it.

im not saying im a genius, just that i find the orthodox teaching unefficent for me and can achieve higher resaults through learning in my own way


I'm going to say this once. No-one cares.

It's a really important thing to know. You need to be a good guitarist and good to work with. You need to start working (ie, playing and getting paid). That's the bottom line.

It might also interest you to know that I know literally nobody who is just playing for a living, pretty much everyone does a bit of teaching, a bit of session work, a bit of cover bands, a bit of original... etc etc etc.

Good luck!
#24
Note to StandardUser: Grow up. Either get a job or go to university.

No matter how good a guitarist you are, nobody will take you seriously with your current attitude.

You need to face up to reality and accept the fact that you have to actually work for a living, not just sit in your bedroom while your parents get more and more pissed off with you.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#25
Quote by GaryBillington
Note to StandardUser: Grow up. Either get a job or go to university.

No matter how good a guitarist you are, nobody will take you seriously with your current attitude.

You need to face up to reality and accept the fact that you have to actually work for a living, not just sit in your bedroom while your parents get more and more pissed off with you.



God why dont you relax? I came for you for an advice but doesnt mean you can take free shots at me.


Ive asked you questions about how university study is being done, not for that battered line spiced up with a crappy attitude. Youre not going to change me or anyones world by saying to me "Grow up". Youre going to do that by answering the questions ive presented.

Youre really not getting youreself or me anywhere by throwing "grow up" everytime you feel frustrated at my bumness and dont got anything else to say. At least i came to you with full detail about my situation willing to learn everything thatll help me, and i dont know how it works in your planet, but serving help with a cold dish of jerkiness wont work, and might just actually get me dishearted at wanting to get help at all.
Last edited by Standarduser at Sep 22, 2011,
#26
Quote by Freepower
Personally I wouldn't recommend going to uni for music performance. However, you seriously, seriously, seriously need to work at getting into good professional covers bands, yesterday, if you want to make a living at it.


I'm going to say this once. No-one cares.

It's a really important thing to know. You need to be a good guitarist and good to work with. You need to start working (ie, playing and getting paid). That's the bottom line.

It might also interest you to know that I know literally nobody who is just playing for a living, pretty much everyone does a bit of teaching, a bit of session work, a bit of cover bands, a bit of original... etc etc etc.

Good luck!



Great point. Ever heard of George Strait?

He's country ROYALTY, and yet his own travelling band cannot make a good living. They have to play a lot of side gigs as the "Ace in the Hole" band, for the times when George is NOT on the road with them.

Its hard as hell to make a living in this business doing one thing. I'd suggest that as musicians they are some of the finest that you're liable to find anywhere. It's just the reality of this business.

I teach, own a store, and have a couple of online and brick and mortar companies, to make my living.

Best,

Sean
#27
get a band together man, go out and play gigs, earn a bit of money and show your parents that you're right about guitar playing as a living
#28
I work at walmart for my living. I also havent gone to college. I just graduated and didn't enroll this year.

But, seriously TS, your going to need a job. Statistics? No, you don't need those. If you get a job, then you can play all you want. When you're not working, that is.

Ive heard college is a good thing for musicians, if they do it right. Music performance degrees, Ive heard wont get you far. Maybe a music degree and (in my state) a teaching certificate. Be a teacher at a school.

Oh, and they teachers at the college weren't good? So be better than them.
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#29
Quote by Standarduser
Youre really not getting youreself or me anywhere by throwing "grow up" everytime you feel frustrated at my bumness and dont got anything else to say. At least i came to you with full detail about my situation willing to learn everything thatll help me, and i dont know how it works in your planet, but serving help with a cold dish of jerkiness wont work, and might just actually get me dishearted at wanting to get help at all.

Sometimes it's the only way to get people to listen. The first page of this thread is people telling you how hard it will be to succeed and to focus on having a backup plan, your only response that you don't like school so you don't want to go to university.

You've already said you don't want to get a job as this will impact your practice time, but I'm afraid to say that's just how life is. Other things take priority.

Go to university, get a job, but keep playing - I haven't been negative throughout, as I said earlier: Never give up hope.

Truthfully though, that's all it is - Hope. When I was your age I thought the same as you, I had no plans other than becoming a huge rock star through my guitar playing. I eventually learned that isn't how it works for most people, but not before I'd been thrown out of my parent's home, been out of work & homeless, sleeping on friend's sofas.

I didn't have a backup plan either and that's where it got me. I'm just trying to make sure you don't make the same mistakes I made.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#30
Quote by GaryBillington

I didn't have a backup plan either and that's where it got me. I'm just trying to make sure you don't make the same mistakes I made.


Or Kurt Cobain...
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#31
Quote by Freepower
Personally I wouldn't recommend going to uni for music performance. However, you seriously, seriously, seriously need to work at getting into good professional covers bands, yesterday, if you want to make a living at it.


I'm going to say this once. No-one cares.

It's a really important thing to know. You need to be a good guitarist and good to work with. You need to start working (ie, playing and getting paid). That's the bottom line.

It might also interest you to know that I know literally nobody who is just playing for a living, pretty much everyone does a bit of teaching, a bit of session work, a bit of cover bands, a bit of original... etc etc etc.

Good luck!



Solid advice. You can learn all the theory you want and practice 12 hours a day but if you don't go out an play, and network with other musicians its all useless. Also, if you have a chance to go to school take it man. I'm 22 and felt the same way you do a few years ago. I was in school for 2 years and had to leave for financial reasons. Thankfully I am managing alright, but it would be much easier with a degree. Just go to school or get a good job and dedicate all your free time to music. If it works out, great, if not at least you wont be screwed. Good luck man hope you figure it out.
#32
Quote by Standarduser
Youre not going to change me or anyones world by saying to me "Grow up".


This is true but it'll happen to you one day. I'm not being sarcastic.

We don't have much sense of perspective at your age. That's not a bad thing.

You probably won't get EXACTLY the kind of life you dream of. The knack is learning to enjoy the life you actually have.

Having music as a hobby is in many ways better than having it as a job. Personally I think I'd hate to be a session guitarist: somebody's fret monkey.

Better would be to be in a band, my own music. This is more realistic anyway. And you can at least start it off in tandem with a 'regular' job. If it works out (that tiny chance everyone's been talking about) - go full time.
#33
your going to work without a net eh...better know how to fall and not get hurt...your approach is self defeating...if you don't make it..whatever you think "it" is..what do you do...i have met alot of 40-50 yrs olds still living the dream of "one day..ill show em"...

lots of back up plan advise giving on here...well its not a "backup" .. its part of the plan...almost mandatory...i have worked with lots of "near famous" and some name folks in the industry..some have talent some dont..some have ability some dont..amazing what a good manager and promo team can do for your career even if you have no talent...

the point...you can be the best guitar player ever..and you may be overlooked or never accepted or for whatever reason cant "break into the business"...

i did "session/studio" work for 12 yrs in los angeles...i have heard people say "your the best guitarist i have ever heard" and i have heard ..."sorry...we want a different sound.." and somewhere in the middle was the ..." how bout them dodgers.." i never wanted to be the best guitarist in the world...but i have met and worked with some that are in that league.

years ago i went back to school and studied business...and worked day jobs in finance offices and learned accounting etc...now i work with a software company as their finance manager , teach guitar and help friends with the music projects..i still practice 2-3 hrs every day .. i am at peace with my past and present..priceless

you can realize your dream..but you have to be awake to do it...

play well

wolf
#34
I think you'd be better off becoming a sound engineer, music producer or even promoter... something similar to that anyway. Just play guitar in your spare time for now because it is incredibly difficult to become a regular performer these days. Even if you play like a god-like genius, you need much, much more! You have to become friends with the right people in the industry and have a long list of contacts. Also, being extremely social, versatile and hard working is essential.

If you are definitely sure your up to it though, remember that playing guitar in a band, selling cd's and putting on live shows will very likely get you nowhere. I'd suggest looking into all types of different ways a freelance guitarist can make money from other things, such writing jingles for television or radio, doing session work, busking (Some buskers earn on average around 150 quid a day, its totally worth it!), performing music for films and video games, and also doing library work. Don't think of it as selling out, but more as an actual job that puts food on your table and pays your mortgage. Bet it's a lot more fun than working in an office or fitting doors, right?
#35
Quote by GaryBillington
Sometimes it's the only way to get people to listen. The first page of this thread is people telling you how hard it will be to succeed and to focus on having a backup plan, your only response that you don't like school so you don't want to go to university.

You've already said you don't want to get a job as this will impact your practice time, but I'm afraid to say that's just how life is. Other things take priority.

Go to university, get a job, but keep playing - I haven't been negative throughout, as I said earlier: Never give up hope.

Truthfully though, that's all it is - Hope. When I was your age I thought the same as you, I had no plans other than becoming a huge rock star through my guitar playing. I eventually learned that isn't how it works for most people, but not before I'd been thrown out of my parent's home, been out of work & homeless, sleeping on friend's sofas.

I didn't have a backup plan either and that's where it got me. I'm just trying to make sure you don't make the same mistakes I made.



Fine then. You have to understand though that in my country, youre drafted into the military just when you turn 18, so you practically start life in the age of 21. Furthermore americans earn 25% more per year than Israelis, pay half for gas, much less for rent and much less for everything else. If you frequently watch the news you can see that young couples are forced to live with thier parents as of the high prices of practically everything - even the ones with the high income and people with hi-tech jobs. Not to mention singles. Maybe its going to change - not soon though.

It is totally different from america or US or whatever youre writing me from. The country is different. The mentality is different. Here it is acceptable to financially be supported untill you get on your feet, even for my cousins(one is an accountant and one is a lawyer that had the highest grades of its university) yet still i dont feel comfortable being supported, and thats why im asking people who i assumed have understanding about music.


I am aware of back up plans and thier importance. Im asking now - do you recommend me a music school just so ill be a "Certified guitarist" or can it really give me things which i wont get from my teacher or from my self taught training?
Are there any articles or books out there that describe how the industry work? practical stuff?
Last edited by Standarduser at Sep 22, 2011,
#36
Quote by Standarduser
Fine then. You have to understand though that in my country, youre drafted into the military just when you turn 18, so you practically start life in the age of 21. Furthermore americans earn 25% more per year than Israelis, pay half for gas, much less for rent and much less for everything else. If you frequently watch the news you can see that young couples are forced to live with thier parents as of the high prices of practically everything - even the ones with the high income and people with hi-tech jobs. Not to mention singles. Maybe its going to change - not soon though.

It is totally different from america or US or whatever youre writing me from. The country is different. The mentality is different. Here it is acceptable to financially be supported untill you get on your feet, even for my cousins(one is an accountant and one is a lawyer that had the highest grades of its university) yet still i dont feel comfortable being supported, and thats why im asking people who i assumed have understanding about music.


I am aware of back up plans and thier importance. Im asking now - do you recommend me a music school just so ill be a "Certified guitarist" or can it really give me things which i wont get from my teacher or from my self taught training?
Are there any articles or books out there that describe how the industry work? practical stuff?



Theory wise everything they teach in a music school I guess you could learn on your own but more importantly you will meet people when you go there. Having connections in the industry is very important and you won't find that sitting at home.

Also, yes there are tons of books out on the music industry.
Last edited by damage_inc07 at Sep 22, 2011,
#37
Quote by Standarduser
hier importance. Im asking now - do you recommend me a music school just so ill be a "Certified guitarist" or can it really give me things which i wont get from my teacher or from my self taught training?
Are there any articles or books out there that describe how the industry work? practical stuff?


Perspective, industry insight/contacts, other musicians you can start a band with and an attitude adjustment, stop making excuses and do it. If you really want to do it, you'll do what ever it takes.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Sep 22, 2011,
#38
Quote by ChemicalFire
Perspective, industry insight/contacts, other musicians you can start a band with and an attitude adjustment, stop making excuses and do it. If you really want to do it, you'll do what ever it takes.



Excuse me for wanting to plan out and read before doing anything.

Im tired of tolerating this crappy attittude. I read, i ask, i make sure - thats how i do things. You dont like my way, fine, dont call it an excuse.
#39
You're asking the wrong people. Find those in your area that do what you do, or similar to what you do, and ask them if they would be willing to go out to lunch so that you can pick their brain and ask questions. Have your questions ready before the lunch and ask questions only as needed, let the mentor do the talking. You will have learned some tricks of the trade, another perspective, made a contact, and possibly a friend.

This community is not the community you are trying to break into; go find where you want to be and start there.
#40
The other thing that going to a music school will give you is a certificate to say you've been there and are qualified in the field of work you're hoping to succeed in.

Employers want either qualifications or experience, preferably both. At the moment you have neither, and you're unlikely to get experience until you've got qualifications to earn yourself the work which will give you that experience.

And that goes for any career, not just careers in music.

Everyone here wishes you luck, and I expect I'm right in saying that within every single person on this site there is a small part of them that still hasn't given up hope that it will happen for them. If it happens for you, we will all be jealous. When it doesn't, you need a backup plan.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
Page 1 of 2