#1
So my friend and I have this idea. He does alot of logging at his dad's wood lot, so he has alot of experience doing that. Me, not so much, but I'm always hell bent on learning if it makes me money.

He had this idea that, let's say someone wants a small piece of land cleared out so he/she can build on it. So we would get a contract out of them and go ahead and cut down all the trees they want (minus a few, because a property with no trees would be odd). It sounds like good money, and I don't care if it's hard work. But I'm thinking, just getting these contracts would be a rare and lucky thing. Most construction and excavation companies would most likely be able to that right? Considering they have bulldozers, even though they don't work too well for doing that.

So I'm thinking we do it all ourselves. Buy cheap land near small towns (I know alot of them around where I live are about to explode and they're always growing with new houses), I don't know, from a few acres to a bit more (not like 1000 hectares like these logging giants), we do the logging and everything ourselves, work like horses because time is money, then clear it out, sell the wood as lumber and/or firewood. And then either sit on the land for a while, wait for it to appreciate slightly (because we don't want to wait too long) and sell it. The land would be worth more when cleared, plus the slight waiting period which could give it a chance to grow in value, plus we've made pure profit on the wood. And then we sell the land and move on to the next, grow, diversify and so on.

How does that sound? Am I pissing up a rope? There are obviously more technicalities and nothing ever goes to plan but this is just a general brainstorm.
#2
Building companies already do this.
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#3
Quote by metalblaster
So my friend and I have this idea. He does alot of logging at his dad's wood, so he has alot of experience doing that. Me, not so much, but I'm always hell bent on learning if it makes me money.

Wut?

Also; THINK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. You capitalist pig.
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#4
Did your friend remind you that logging is difficult and extremely dangerous, not to mention includes high upfront cost in equipment, and then knowledge of that equipment so that you can repair it?

Also, only certain types of trees fair as lumber or firewood. Most of your logs would end up being a side-of-the-road-sale venture, and you'd have to sell them cheap unless you cleared a forest of locus.

Have either of you ever bought property before?

Have you ever used a chainsaw?
i don't know why i feel so dry
#5
Quote by Eastwinn
Did your friend remind you that logging is difficult and extremely dangerous, not to mention includes high upfront cost in equipment, and then knowledge of that equipment so that you can repair it?

Also, only certain types of trees fair as lumber or firewood. Most of your logs would end up being a side-of-the-road-sale venture, and you'd have to sell them cheap unless you cleared a forest of locus.

Have either of you ever bought property before?

Have you ever used a chainsaw?



Never bought property before. I know some things about it, but can't say I know all. Thing is that we wouldn't keep it for long.

Nope. Ya I thought of that. I'd need some serious time to practice, learn how to handle it and of course get the all the info as far a safety goes. I know how to cut trees, I've just never cut any (nothing bigger than a foot round so doesnt really count) so I can't just say I know what I'm doing.

And yes, that's why I would sell it as firewood and lumber. His dad pretty much already does all this with his own mill, it's just for himself though, we could get some golden expertise from him too. Of course we would scope out the land before buying it. We're not just gonna go ahead and buy an acre full of poplar while the lot a few miles over is full of white oak.

We can use the mill, we'll spend the money on chainsaws. Repairs are something to laugh at honestly, we have all the tools to fix pretty much anything and they're almost always doing some sort of side-project (like their corvette engine they're rebuilding), I'm pretty ok with that stuff. My only problem, would be the stumps. You can't just pull those out. I hear burning works, but that requires wood, brush, fuel and seems like so much work for nothing. I hear dynamite works well, but good luck trying to get some sort of permit for dynamite in Canada. Out of all countries, Canada is right up there with sweden and finland on gun control and explosives and all that jazz.
Last edited by metalblaster at Sep 22, 2011,
#6
Basic economic principles:

Price land cleared = price land with wood - wood profit + cost of clearing

You are contradicting yourself. You say that land cleared is worth more.
This would be if the cost of clearing is more than the profit to be made from the wood.
If that is the case, what's the point to do it?

Another basic principle. Buying and selling properties brings risk along.
For starters, there is market risk. The value can drop.
Then there is the risk involving liquidity, or in this case the lack of.
You can buy stocks in a matter of milliseconds, but it takes a lot longer to trade properties (extra risk) and the costs are a lot higher.

It is easy to get rich when using a calculator, but this doesn't resemble real life or conditions.
Just because I have some strong opinions doesn't mean I agree with everything I say.
#7
^ Chainsaws definitely take practice. So long as you're not scared of it, practicing is easy.

Here are some big expensive things that you'll need:

- A couple of chainsaws
- A decent tractor, with a bucket on the front and a mower bed
- A wood splitter, to be attached to that tractor
- A brush hog, to be attached to that tractor
- A durable truck, to carry logs, hay, etc
- A stump grinder, to be attached to the truck
- A trailer to carry equipment

Of course, you also need to understand all of that equipment so that you can repair it. Plus, you need to buy gas for all of those things. Tractors almost always take diesel. The truck could be gas or diesel, depends on what you can get your hands on. The chainsaws will need a gas and oil mix. You have to take that mix and extra oil with you any time you bring the chainsaws, along with an assortment of tools that the chainsaws could require at any time. Even if your truck was a piece of shit, it would be more reliable than a chainsaw.

I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to make sure you've considered everything.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#8
Quote by xgunterx
Basic economic principles:

Price land cleared = price land with wood - wood profit + cost of clearing

You are contradicting yourself. You say that land cleared is worth more.
This would be if the cost of clearing is more than the profit to be made from the wood.
If that is the case, what's the point to do it?

Another basic principle. Buying and selling properties brings risk along.
For starters, there is market risk. The value can drop.
Then there is the risk involving liquidity, or in this case the lack of.
You can buy stocks in a matter of milliseconds, but it takes a lot longer to trade properties (extra risk) and the costs are a lot higher.

It is easy to get rich when using a calculator, but this doesn't resemble real life or conditions.


Our capital investments would include, our chainsaws, sharpening equipment, extra chains, chain lube and other small maintenance items. Safety equipment, helmets, boots, all stuff we mostly already have. Besides that... gasoline?

Our costs would be minimal because we put in the man hours ourselves. I we need to hire someone (I mean, if we ABSOLUTELY need someone else) then we do so, and it would most likely be someone we know and trust, which we would give a small portion of the final profit, or something like a daily wage, which ever would cost us less but would give them a slight increase in their income. Which would be a fine balance to sort out.

What I'm saying, is besides our capital investments and besides the cost of land (which is another subject), our running costs would be low because we wouldn't mind working extremely long days constantly because it's our money, right? We don't have to run a log-cutter/bark stripper/sectioner/giant machine. Maybe wayyy down the road when we can more than afford it, ok. But for now, we don't cost ourselves anything besides man power and our small running costs.

The properties I can understand. I do have a generally good idea of how things run and go for around here, but I would never trust myself on just that. We would have to find a way of still buying affordable/cheap land with quality profit in it and be able to sell it without having to sit on it for a long time. Sitting on it is fine for a short time, but I know what you mean about the market, it's all over the goddamn place and realtors even have a hard time following it. I guess this is the area where the bigger risk is involved, if the proper planning does lack in it.
#9
Quote by Eastwinn
^ Chainsaws definitely take practice. So long as you're not scared of it, practicing is easy.

Here are some big expensive things that you'll need:

- A couple of chainsaws
- A decent tractor, with a bucket on the front and a mower bed
- A wood splitter, to be attached to that tractor
- A brush hog, to be attached to that tractor
- A durable truck, to carry logs, hay, etc
- A stump grinder, to be attached to the truck
- A trailer to carry equipment

Of course, you also need to understand all of that equipment so that you can repair it. Plus, you need to buy gas for all of those things. Tractors almost always take diesel. The truck could be gas or diesel, depends on what you can get your hands on. The chainsaws will need a gas and oil mix. You have to take that mix and extra oil with you any time you bring the chainsaws, along with an assortment of tools that the chainsaws could require at any time. Even if your truck was a piece of shit, it would be more reliable than a chainsaw.

I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to make sure you've considered everything.


I have my truck, a few mods on the suspension and a tranny cooler will have to be added. Couple hundred bucks at least, that's ok because I've been thinking of doing that since I got it. My buddy has his old silverado workhorse which has paid for itself many times over. Plus he might be looking at a new truck for himself.

We could use his tractor. Although it's not really his, we could use it, carefully and sparingly.

I think he has one or two log splitters.

Can't say I know what a brush hog is.

We have trailer(S)

And this stump grinder, I've only heard of them, don't know how they work and how well.

And yeah I know all about the gas, diesel and two stroke stuff.

Well I don't mind if you try to discourage me, because it makes me think worst case scenario, which in my mind is always the best way to plan things.
Last edited by metalblaster at Sep 22, 2011,
#12
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Be a magician instead. People like magicians.




This kitty... it's an ilooshun.
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#13
Quote by homeless-john
Be a magician instead. People like magicians.


**** it. I'm going for it. I mean criss angel does it? Anyone can **** around with a camera and edit shit. I'm off! lol
#14
Holy shit, look at all the 17 year old logging experts.
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