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#1
Two French women who continue to wear the full-face veil in defiance of a new law banning it in France have been fined.

Thursday's court ruling on the controversial new ban follows a law approved by parliament in April.

They were both fined a total of 200 euros ($271) by a French court, in what many believe is a test case.

Al Jazeera's Emma Hayward, reporting from Paris, said the court's decision to fine these women "was no great surprise really because we knew this was always going to be a test case here in France".

Police have issued several on-the-spot fines since the ban came into effect in April but these are the first court-issued fines, with the women vowing to appeal their case all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.

Speaking to our correspondent, Rachid Nekkaz, a French businessman, explained why he had decided to pay the fines for these women.
Al Jazeera's Tim Friend reports on the ban that came into force in April amid some defiance [Al Jazeera]

"I consider the freedom of movement in a democracy is very important and I can't accept that my government [has] voted [for] a law [which] doesn't respect the European constitution," he said.

Supporters of the law, including French President Nicolas Sarkozy, say the veils imprison women.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/09/20119228042691399.html

Quite sad this is even brought up in court. You'd think people could be able to go out with any attire they want, but apparently not in France. The below quote by Sarkozy is such an ignorant statement as well, how anyone hasn't slapped his shit already is beyond me.
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#3
As defiant as these women want to be, as someone who lives in the Middle East, I support the ban as the veil promotes ignorance.
Catch me,
heal me,
Lift me back up to the Sun
I choose to live
#5
Why on earth would you support the ban...? There aren't any good reasons whatsoever.
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#7
Quote by Kensai
vote deleriumbassst




1977 Burny FLG70
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2016 SE Holcolmb
#8
Quote by Zeletros
I support the ban.


Why? If women want to wear them why should the government say no? It's not harming anyone. I suppose France has laws regarding freedom of religion and freedom of expression. I would have to think that this law is violating both of those.
#9
I dont necessarily suppor the ban, but i definitely do understand the sentiment behind it. Say what you want, but immigration (particularly from the middle east/north africa) is causing problems in europe.
#11
Yeah I don't see how dictating what a women can't wear is fighting for women's rights.

Thankfully 2 out of 3 Americans say they are opposed to this because of the first amendment.
Last edited by WaterGod at Sep 22, 2011,
#12
Quote by alex lifeson7
I dont necessarily suppor the ban, but i definitely do understand the sentiment behind it. Say what you want, but immigration (particularly from the middle east/north africa) is causing problems in europe.


Oh god not again...
#13
Quote by alex lifeson7
I dont necessarily suppor the ban, but i definitely do understand the sentiment behind it. Say what you want, but immigration (particularly from the middle east/north africa) is causing problems in europe.


Dem pakis taking our jobs.
#16
How strange, when reading this article, I have an uncontrollable urge to vote deleriumbassst
#17
Quote by Kensai
Why on earth would you support the ban...? There aren't any good reasons whatsoever.

Concealing your identity and playing the religion-culture card as a copout when every other citizen has to obey the law imposed on the land. I'd like to see the eyes and face of people when I go out in public. It's a lot less threatening and you will know who did what if any crimes are committed.
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#18
Quote by Zaphikh
Concealing your identity and playing the religion-culture card as a copout when every other citizen has to obey the law imposed on the land. I'd like to see the eyes and face of people when I go out in public. It's a lot less threatening and you will know who did what if any crimes are committed.

Theres that good reason everyone wanted
#19
That reason being why I support a ban on anything that completely obscures the face.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#20
Quote by Zaphikh
Concealing your identity and playing the religion-culture card as a copout when every other citizen has to obey the law imposed on the land. I'd like to see the eyes and face of people when I go out in public. It's a lot less threatening and you will know who did what if any crimes are committed.


I'd like to see every hot woman unclothed when I go out in public. Doesn't mean there should be a law against clothes. The world doesn't revolve around you and me, meaning there are people out there that should be able to dress as they like.

As for giving up freedoms for protections I can't agree. If someone is going to commit a crime you don't think they'll just temporarily put on a mask or something? If you're gonna impose this kind of law you better have damn good reasons. I don't think there's a single one which can't be refuted by common sense.
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#21
Quote by Kensai
I'd like to see every hot woman unclothed when I go out in public. Doesn't mean there should be a law against clothes. The world doesn't revolve around you and me, meaning there are people out there that should be able to dress as they like.

As for giving up freedoms for protections I can't agree. If someone is going to commit a crime you don't think they'll just temporarily put on a mask or something? If you're gonna impose this kind of law you better have damn good reasons. I don't think there's a single one which can't be refuted by common sense.



So I should be able to go about my day completely naked if I want? Just askin'
Check out my band Disturbed
#22
Quote by Kensai
I'd like to see every hot woman unclothed when I go out in public. Doesn't mean there should be a law against clothes. The world doesn't revolve around you and me, meaning there are people out there that should be able to dress as they like.

As for giving up freedoms for protections I can't agree. If someone is going to commit a crime you don't think they'll just temporarily put on a mask or something? If you're gonna impose this kind of law you better have damn good reasons. I don't think there's a single one which can't be refuted by common sense.

If you see someone in a mask, then you know they are committing at least one crime.
#23
As westerners we have to abide by islamic tradition in the middle east so why they wouldnt have to go by our rules would be unfair. Not saying the ban is justified im just going by the women breaking the law.
Is it hot in here??

This one time in Dubai.....

#24
Quote by Kensai
I'd like to see every hot woman unclothed when I go out in public.

Petty rebuttal. You know exactly what I'm getting at.
Doesn't mean there should be a law against clothes. The world doesn't revolve around you and me, meaning there are people out there that should be able to dress as they like.

Dumb shit.
As for giving up freedoms for protections I can't agree.

That's nice. The government does agree though. They have more authority than you since their rule comes from the consensus of the citizens. That's right: opinions being put to work.
If someone is going to commit a crime you don't think they'll just temporarily put on a mask or something?

They will. Imagine the abuse of burka wearing by non-Muslim criminals. Can't wear a mask, but you can wear a burka since it has religious ties? Nice! All criminals will just wear burkas next time they do something since it would be legal.
If you're gonna impose this kind of law you better have damn good reasons.

Already gave the best damn reason.
I don't think there's a single one which can't be refuted by common sense.

I figured out your mentality from the first three words of this sentence.
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#25
Quote by StewieSwan
So I should be able to go about my day completely naked if I want? Just askin'


It's fine by me. Unless you're morbidly obese. Or a guy.

Quote by captaincrunk
If you see someone in a mask, then you know they are committing at least one crime.


Atleast in france. Because masks are the devil or something...

Quote by Spoonman69
As westerners we have to abide by islamic tradition in the middle east so why they wouldnt have to go by our rules would be unfair. Not saying the ban is justified im just going by the women breaking the law.

What? What rules?? The "you have to have your face free of obstruction rule"? I haven't heard of it.

Quote by Zaphikh
Petty rebuttal. You know exactly what I'm getting at.

Dumb shit.

That's nice. The government does agree though. They have more authority than you since their rule comes from the consensus of the citizens. That's right: opinions being put to work.

They will. Imagine the abuse of burka wearing by non-Muslim criminals. Can't wear a mask, but you can wear a burka since it has religious ties? Nice! All criminals will just wear burkas next time they do something since it would be legal.

Already gave the best damn reason.

I figured out your mentality from the first three words of this sentence.


Hur dur I do whatever the goverment tells me to do. I forgot you argue exactly like SYK so I'm not going to bother with you, zapikh. Call me stubborn, agressive and childish if you will but everytime I see you argue I just facepalm through my skull.

edit: That probably came out pretty harsh, but we've argued before and I know where this is going. No hard feelings
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Last edited by Kensai at Sep 22, 2011,
#26
Quote by Kensai
It's fine by me. Unless you're morbidly obese. Or a guy.



Too bad. You're gonna be staring at my 8 inch dick all day.
Check out my band Disturbed
#27
Quote by Kensai
Hur dur I do whatever the goverment tells me to do.

lol.
I forgot you argue exactly like SYK

I kick people's asses in discussions? I'm flattered.
so I'm not going to bother with you, zapikh.

Do whatever the hell you want. lol.
Call me stubborn

Stubborn.
agressive

Agressive.
and childish if you will

Childish.
I see you argue I just facepalm through my skull.

Aparently, thinking doesn't cause enough hurt for your head so you resort to physical violence. Go ahead, knock yourself out.
Quote by StewieSwan
Too bad. You're gonna be staring at my 8 inch dick all day.

Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
Last edited by Zaphikh at Sep 22, 2011,
#28
Quote by StewieSwan
Too bad. You're gonna be staring at my 8 inch dick all day.

You're going to have to stare at mine so I guess we're even


Really though I think everyone should have the choice to dress like they want, unless it's just intentionally offensive, like racist t-shirts or whatever. You can understand why that would piss people off. But come on, banning clothes that obstruct the face in case it might be used in criminal contexts? Not only is there a way around this dumbass law that can be used, but just the very idea of banning something people use (niqabs, burkas, whatever) just because you think that'll help fight crime is ridiculous. It's like banning all knife sale in case people buy knives to rob/stab people with.

Quote by Zaphikh
lol.

I kick people's asses in discussions? I'm flattered.

Do whatever the hell you want. lol.

Stubborn.

Agressive.

Childish.

Aparently, thinking doesn't cause enough hurt for your head so you resort to physical violence. Go ahead, knock yourself out.

See my edit.
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#29
supporters of this are all either dumb nationalists, or white feminists who don't want darkie culture bringing down womynkind.

Jack my swag
Last edited by gopherthegreat at Sep 22, 2011,
#30
Quote by Kensai
See my edit.

Just did. No hard feelings at all. I too know how this will end. You will leave because you are either unwilling or unable to acknowledge that legalizing burkas will result in criminals just using burkas as masks for crimes. Why should one sect of people be above the law because of their woman-demeaning, barbaric religion? There are solid reasons for this ban. You just don't like them. That's fine with me just as long as you don't become a political figure in the future.
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#31
Stupid law using the "crime fighting" card as an excuse for intolerance.
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SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


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#32
Quote by Kensai
You're going to have to stare at mine so I guess we're even


I'll stare at it to the point that it makes you uncomfortable.


Really though I think everyone should have the choice to dress like they want, unless it's just intentionally offensive, like racist t-shirts or whatever. You can understand why that would piss people off. But come on, banning clothes that obstruct the face in case it might be used in criminal contexts? Not only is there a way around this dumbass law that can be used, but just the very idea of banning something people use (niqabs, burkas, whatever) just because you think that'll help fight crime is ridiculous. It's like banning all knife sale in case people buy knives to rob/stab people with.



Intentionally offensive stuff is fine by me. I don't see the logic in banning that. I am not strongly for or against the burqa ban. I think both sides point out legitimate concerns. I do, however, strongly support the right of shopkeepers to require women to remove their burqas while inside their stores.
Check out my band Disturbed
#33
Quote by Kensai
What? What rules?? The "you have to have your face free of obstruction rule"? I haven't heard of it.


Here banks will turn you away for not taking off a bike helmet because it covers you face. My dad got turned away for wearing a fire helmet...while responding to a fire alarm there as a firefighter. It's a double standard if a woman can refuse to show here face for ID wearing a face veil, but everyone else has to remove head gear. I don't know if it's something that can be made a law, but it is a rule some places enforce.

Aside from that, people can wear what they want as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT:
I do, however, strongly support the right of shopkeepers to require women to remove their burqas while inside their stores.


This basically.
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Last edited by lyonk55 at Sep 22, 2011,
#34
Quote by Zaphikh
Just did. No hard feelings at all. I too know how this will end. You will leave because you are either unwilling or unable to acknowledge that legalizing burkas will result in criminals just using burkas as masks for crimes.
just so you know, it was not a widespread epidemic for people to dress in burkas when robbing places, etc. and even then you can, uh, say the person in the burka did it. muslims aren't exactly a huge part of the french population, theres not going to be a big amount of burkas in one public place.

Why should one sect of people be above the law because of their woman-demeaning, barbaric religion?
good thing there are strong protectors of womyn like you. after all, muslims were totally turning france into a sexist sharia state!

Jack my swag
Last edited by gopherthegreat at Sep 22, 2011,
#35
Quote by gopherthegreat
supporters of this are all either dumb nationalists, or white feminists who don't want darkie culture bringing down womynkind.

Include: folks who disagree with one sect of people being above face-concealing laws because of their religion while the rest of the citizens respect the law.
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#36
Quote by Zaphikh
Include: folks who disagree with one sect of people being above face-concealing laws because of their religion while the rest of the citizens respect the law.
I rob banks in a burka. it works because I can just run out into the sea of burkas in france, like there are in all public places. that way i can't be recognized among all the burkas that are everywhere in france.

Jack my swag
#37
Quote by Zaphikh
Just did. No hard feelings at all. I too know how this will end. You will leave because you are either unwilling or unable to acknowledge that legalizing burkas will result in criminals just using burkas as masks for crimes. Why should one sect of people be above the law because of their woman-demeaning, barbaric religion? There are solid reasons for this ban. You just don't like them. That's fine with me just as long as you don't become a political figure in the future.


Rational question: Has this actually happened? Like, ever? In the rest of world, where burkas are allowed. If I was robbing a bank my first thought wouldn't be a burka, truthfully.
#38
Quote by gopherthegreat
then ban masks too.

Sure. I'm all for that. Obviously the law would be lenient during particular events or theatrical showings. That's de facto.
just so you know, it was not a widespread epidemic for people to dress in burkas when robbing places, etc. and even then you can, uh, say the person in the burka did it. muslims aren't exactly a huge part of the french population, theres not going to be a big amount of burkas in one public place.

A white man with no ties to religion could successfully rob a store with a burka on and the Islamic community is to be blamed and chastised for this? That's not fair, is it?
good thing there are strong protectors of womyn like you.

I have no problem with women and men being equal. There's no shame in that.
after all, muslims were totally turning france into a sexist sharia state!

lol wat...
Ах, так вы не пьете и не курите?
Хорошо для вас: вы здоровым умрете!
#39
Quote by Zaphikh
Just did. No hard feelings at all. I too know how this will end. You will leave because you are either unwilling or unable to acknowledge that legalizing burkas will result in criminals just using burkas as masks for crimes. Why should one sect of people be above the law because of their woman-demeaning, barbaric religion? There are solid reasons for this ban. You just don't like them. That's fine with me just as long as you don't become a political figure in the future.



Lrn2Qur'an

OT:
It's not banned in England and I don't think there's too many cases of people robbing shops whilst wearing Burkas.

I'd love to see some figures showing how many criminals are able to rob shops and get away with it each year because they hid their face with a Burka.

People always give that argument as one of the main ones, but if you're against that then surely you should also be in favour of making it illegal to wrap a scarf round your face whilst you've got your hood up. Bandanas acoss your face should be outlawed. Holding your arm across your face for a prolonged period should be illegal. Holding your head in your hands for a prolonged time should be illegal.

I don't see the huge difference between walking around in a burka and walking around holding your arm in front of your face for the whole time your out but I highly doubt I'm gonna see any policeman warning people to hold their arms by their side any time soon.
Last edited by willT08 at Sep 22, 2011,
#40
funny how all of a sudden criminals started using burkas at the same time as the muslims started stealing our jobs and corrupting our way of life with their terrorist ways. I wonder if the muslims and the criminals in burkas coordinated that.

Jack my swag
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