#1
Hi all

I've worked out that it is in E and that it uses the following notes:

E - F# - G# - A - B - C# - D

What I'd like to know is what key this would be from a music theory POV. There seems to me to be 2 options... E Major (with a flattened/natural seventh). Or E Mixolydian. I'm inclined to think it is the latter because D# is not used anywhere in the song.

But am I right here? Cold someone please confirm, point out where my logic has gone wrong, or join in to discuss????

Huge thanks

Max
#3
Have you investigated the possibility that it could be in Amajor or F#minor which contains the notes

A B C # D E F# G#

just looking at the chords on the internet tells me that its probably A major. Its interesting that the song finishes on A so it would be worth listening to it to see if it resolves at the end.

It appears to just be a

V II IV I progression for the intro

V II I progression for the verses


The fact that the B is played as a minor chord pretty much confirms that its in A major. If it was in E major like you said, B would be the 5th so would be played as a major.
Last edited by mrbabo91 at Sep 23, 2011,
#4
Quote by Max Dread
I'm inclined to think it is the latter because D# is not used anywhere in the song.

Huge thanks

Max

I'd go with your instinct.
#5
Interesting responses guys and some good food for thought. Cheers.

This might sound a bit whacky but I'll say it anyway....

If you play the main melody (or the chords underneath for that matter: E - B - D - A), in both instances when you end or resolve to an A it "hangs". Resolve to an E and it sounds like it has reached home and fully resolved. Does that not therefore make E the root/tonic? And if so, should the key therefore not be E or one variety or another? Or does it not work like that?

Cheers for bearing with me!

Max
#6
Sounds like E major. I can't really remember the song but singing the progression above V - II VI - I, to me it sounds like I - V - bVII - IV.
#7
Quote by Max Dread
Interesting responses guys and some good food for thought. Cheers.

This might sound a bit whacky but I'll say it anyway....

If you play the main melody (or the chords underneath for that matter: E - B - D - A), in both instances when you end or resolve to an A it "hangs". Resolve to an E and it sounds like it has reached home and fully resolved. Does that not therefore make E the root/tonic? And if so, should the key therefore not be E or one variety or another? Or does it not work like that?

Cheers for bearing with me!

Max

It's very subjective, but I also agree that it resolves to E. You mentioned that there is no D# in the riff, but a D natural instead, and this really makes it sound like Mixolydian, at least to me.

Personally I'd write the key signature with 3#'s in it.
#8
Quote by Jesse Clarkson
Sounds like E major. I can't really remember the song but singing the progression above V - II VI - I, to me it sounds like I - V - bVII - IV.


Even though the song never makes use of the D# note, using D instead?

Perhaps I can ask another related question.... Is it possible to have a key based on a mode or is that not theoretically correct in music terms? Is there such thing as an E Mixolydian key?

Thanks for the input!
#9
***Changed Post after listening to the song***

The chord progression goes:

E Bm D A

I think it resolves to A.

So the key would be A major. A V - ii - IV - I progression.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#11
Quote by AlanHB
***Changed Post after listening to the song***

The chord progression goes:

E Bm D A

I think it resolves to A.

So the key would be A major. A V - ii - IV - I progression.


Interesting - does anyone else feel that the song resolves to A? I certainly doesn't to my ears.....

Quote by Jesse Clarkson
Mode police. <.<


Please - tell me more!!! Not sure what you mean by that!
#12
Quote by Max Dread
Interesting - does anyone else feel that the song resolves to A? I certainly doesn't to my ears.....


Sorry cancel that. Now I think it resolves to Bm quite nicely.


Quote by Max Dread
Please - tell me more!!! Not sure what you mean by that!


Do a search for any threads on modes and you'll find out more.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#13
Quote by AlanHB
Sorry cancel that. Now I think it resolves to Bm quite nicely.


Agreed - sound nice, but try then following the B with an E and I think the cadence sounds more complete. That's both in the melody and in the chords beneath. What do you reckon?

Quote by AlanHB
Do a search for any threads on modes and you'll find out more.


Will do - cheers.
#14
Quote by Max Dread
Agreed - sound nice, but try then following the B with an E and I think the cadence sounds more complete. That's both in the melody and in the chords beneath. What do you reckon?


B maj to E would make for a strong cadence. B minor to E, not really.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#16
The way I hear it, the main progression after the intro is:

E Bm7 Asus4 A.

First play those four chords as:

0---2---0---0---
0---3---3---2---
1---2---2---2---
2---4---2---2---
2---2---0---0---
0-----------------

Then to center your ear around the A major feel at the end play it this way instead:

0---2---0---5---
0---3---3---5---
1---2---2---2---
2---4---2---2---
2---2---0---0---
0-----------------

It isn't how the chords are voiced in the song but it helps you hear the key better.
#17
Quote by mdc
So are you saying it's in B Dorian or B Minor?


No modes.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#18
Quote by Max Dread
Even though the song never makes use of the D# note, using D instead?

Perhaps I can ask another related question.... Is it possible to have a key based on a mode or is that not theoretically correct in music terms? Is there such thing as an E Mixolydian key?

Thanks for the input!

No one answered your question, but no, modes and keys are separate things.
#20
Quote by mrbabo91
I still think its in A major after listening to it 5 times.


Seems to me that it is in A Major too, especially on paper with the three #s and all. But i still maintain that if you play the main melody and/or the chord sequence, if feels most resolved when you end on E. Sounds quite resolved going to a B but not as much as E. And does not sound like it resolves to A at all to my ears....
#21
Quote by Max Dread
Seems to me that it is in A Major too, especially on paper with the three #s and all. But i still maintain that if you play the main melody and/or the chord sequence, if feels most resolved when you end on E. Sounds quite resolved going to a B but not as much as E. And does not sound like it resolves to A at all to my ears....

The key signature can denote any one of the modes, not just the relative major or minor, in this case A Major or F# Minor respectively.

I still go with my ear and say it's E Mixolydian, 3#'s in the key signature.

Ideally, the sheet music should have this key signature with a little note at the top of the score saying "E Mixolydian". Or a key signature of 4#'s, but any D's that appear within the score will be labelled with a natural sign.
Last edited by mdc at Sep 23, 2011,
#22
It is definitively in A major from what I can hear. It makes a lot of sense when playing around in A major, with chords and melodies. I cannot hear it resolving to E, it absolutely resolves to A in my ears.
#23
The chords for Bittersweet Symphony resolve to E Major.

E - Bm7 - Asus4 - A

I - ii - IVsus - IV

The melody also clearly points to E as the tonic.

You could refer to the song as being in E Mixolydian. If you're a mode denier you could call it E Major "with accidentals".
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Sep 23, 2011,
#24
Thanks for all the input and opinions.....

Really interesting how not only opinions vary, but also how people hear it so differently, especially with regard to what the music naturally resolves to.....
#25
Quote by GuitarMunky
The chords for Bittersweet Symphony resolve to E Major.

E - Bm7 - Asus4 - A

I - ii - IVsus - IV

The melody also clearly points to E as the tonic.



This. Listen to the melody and it's clear it's in E (the no...no....no sequence ends on E while the chord progression starts with E major)