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#1
Im stuck on deciding which would be the better choice...?

ESP LTD EC-1000(vintage black) 649.00


or save a few bills(+250)and get the

Edwards E-MA-110C "Eclipse" 999.00

#2
Edwards.
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#3
Specs, type of music you'll be playing, likes and dislikes about a guitar?
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#4
the edwards is probably slightly better, but i'm not sure it's $300 better. How much is it to get up to the bona fide esp version?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#5
Quote by BreeBreeMiikey
Specs, type of music you'll be playing, likes and dislikes about a guitar?


Metallica
ACDC
ZZTop
LZ

ESP has EMGs
Edwards has SD Blackouts
#6
Quote by Dave_Mc
the edwards is probably slightly better, but i'm not sure it's $300 better. How much is it to get up to the bona fide esp version?



ESP ECLIPSE II is aprox 1500.00
#7
Quote by spadeswyld
Metallica
ACDC
ZZTop
LZ

ESP has EMGs
Edwards has SD Blackouts

I looked up the specs...it seems the edwards uses gotoh hardware, and the ltd uses tonepros. Both are very good...so the biggest difference seems to be whether you want gloss or matte finish, and emg's or blackouts. I would say the LTD is the better buy. But the quality on the Edwards may be slightly better? Whether that warrants the extra 300 bucks is up to you...
Guitars:
LTD KH-602
LTD M-15
Schecter Hellraiser FR (for sale w/hsc, pm me.)
BC Rich Bronze WarCock
BC Rich Ironbird1
Tokai Voyager
Jackson JS30 Kelly
Vester: Metal flake gold/black crackle
Vester: rainbow crackle
Carvin V220
#8
Quote by BreeBreeMiikey
I looked up the specs...it seems the edwards uses gotoh hardware, and the ltd uses tonepros. Both are very good...so the biggest difference seems to be whether you want gloss or matte finish, and emg's or blackouts. I would say the LTD is the better buy. But the quality on the Edwards may be slightly better? Whether that warrants the extra 300 bucks is up to you...



yeah... thats exactly what im thinking.....


thanks!
#9
i would go for the ltd, 1 more frets
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#10
Quote by spadeswyld
ESP ECLIPSE II is aprox 1500.00


ah yeah that's a lot more
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#11
One thing about the Edwards is that you'll have to pay a customs fee. They can't be legally sold by a store in the U.S. I think it's like $80. I'm looking into an Edwards Custom myself.
#12
Got my Edwards Explorer a while ago and quality-wise it's slightly better than my LTD H-1001. Only slightly better. It's entirely up to you to decide if you think it's worth it to pay 30% more for that little extra or not. The LTD Deluxe guitar is a damn fine series by itself but I do believe the quality control of Edwards is a bit more strict. This means you are less likely to get a lemon with Edwards.

I still prefer the satin finish of EC-1000 over the glossy finish of the Edwards. So you know my vote
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ESP Standard Eclipse I CTM VW
ESP LTD Deluxe H-1001
ESP LTD Deluxe Viper-1000 STBC
ESP Edwards E-EX-100STD
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#13
I'd go with the LTD just because of the finish. It won't collect fingerprints and the neck will be faster I'm sure because it's smooth while the Edwards is glossy and a bit sticky (it doesn't make a huge difference, it's just something to consider).
#14
Used ESP. Get the real deal for the same price as the Edwards.
#15
I'd get the Edwards. Better tonewoods used, and more attention to detail/finish. That to me is worth the extra money. Really your call on whether you think it's worth it or not though.
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#16
Quote by W4RP1G
Used ESP. Get the real deal for the same price as the Edwards.

Agree
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#17
Quote by Offworld92
I'd get the Edwards. Better tonewoods used, and more attention to detail/finish. That to me is worth the extra money. Really your call on whether you think it's worth it or not though.


is the edwards using better tonewoods?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#18
i'd say they almost equal in build quality, but i would buy the ltd for the extra frets. looks like a edwards from meestursparkle from ebay...if it is i highly recommend this seller as i have also bought a edwards AL-166 from him
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#19
Quote by W4RP1G
Used ESP. Get the real deal for the same price as the Edwards.

correct me if im wrong, but isnt Edwards the same as ESP? Custom built in Japan. Only difference I notice is that they are preffered among japanese guitarists.
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#20
no, the edwardses are started off in china. they're not the same as esp, esps are better, basically.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Quote by bustapr
correct me if im wrong, but isnt Edwards the same as ESP? Custom built in Japan. Only difference I notice is that they are preffered among japanese guitarists.

Basically what Dave_Mc said. Edwards is the budget line in Japan, they are made in China. Many claim they are higher quality than an LTD, but they aren't going to compare to an ESP.
#22
yeah, basically. I tried an ec1000 very close to getting my edwards (and also head to head, iirc, to an edwards les paul special), and they were pretty close in quality. The edwardses had one-piece bodies and necks whereas the ltd had 3-piece, so that's a tgp victory for the eddies, but in terms of how the things played and sounded, it was very close. I'd give the nod to the eddies, but it was almost at the splitting hairs level. At the time, I got my eddie for half what the LTD cost, so win-win, but I wouldn't want to pay too much more for an eddie over a ltd 1000 (assuming both lines had the exact same model).

Based on the ones I've tried, of course. Maybe I tried a really good ltd and bad eddies etc. etc.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Quote by W4RP1G
Basically what Dave_Mc said. Edwards is the budget line in Japan, they are made in China. Many claim they are higher quality than an LTD, but they aren't going to compare to an ESP.

oh, but budget? I was on ebay the other day and saw a sugizo signature ESP Edwards for $4k. Isnt that overpriced or is the quality better than an Eclipse 2 on this model. This basically confused me to hell.
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damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

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#24
that's an awful lot of money for an edwards if it's the same quality as the other eddies. No idea if it is or not- there are occasionally (from what i hear/read) higher quality eddies in the normal lineup, the relic ones etc., so I dunno.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Quote by bustapr
oh, but budget? I was on ebay the other day and saw a sugizo signature ESP Edwards for $4k. Isnt that overpriced or is the quality better than an Eclipse 2 on this model. This basically confused me to hell.

I don't know exactly how things work over there, but logically, that would be overpriced. Even for a real ESP, that's way overpriced. It's a signature and there's no telling if it will actually sell at that rate.

IDK, maybe Edwards does some MIJ limited editions from time to time, like when Gibson makes an Epiphone at the Gibson factory.


Sometimes pricing is just stupid though. Look at the Ibanez Fireman for a good example.
#26
Used ESP, the LTD has a thinner body and a thinner tone that lacks real balls to me. The Edwards would be bad, but then again I haven't played on one which is why I cant really give a good opinion on it.
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#27
LTD: better base materials.
Edwards: Better QC and fitting.

Also the LTD has a compensated nut which is nice, but the Edwards certainly looks nicer.

There's very little in it. One is entirely made in Korea. The other has its initial shaping done in China but is assembled and finished in Japan. For my money I'd buy the Edwards, but that's mostly because I don't like matte black finishes or the 12th fret inlay that LTDs have.
#28
No matter how many times W4RP1G says Edwards are made in China they still are not. He is doing a disservice to people who are looking for the truth about Edwards. They are made in Japan at one of several ESP factories. The wood is milled at an ESP owned factory in China.

I have LTD EC-1000's and I have an Edwards LP 125. After dispensing with crap about tonewoods (unless your the elite 1% of guitarists who do studio work) both the LTD and the Edwards are exceptional instruments. I can't tell the difference in the way either sound plugged in. Even unplugged they sound the same. My Edwards LP125 was $1320. My LTD EC-1000T was $650. The LTD made in Korea and the Edwards MIJ. There is no discernible difference in fit and finish, playability (other than design differences. The Edwards has a different neck profile and smaller frets.) or quality. They are both excellent instruments.

The Edwards has a full nitro finish and the LTD has a poly finish. Still no discernible difference in sound. Instead of focusing on tech specs or where a guitar was made which mean little to nothing important. Focus on how it feels in your hands. Do you like Jumbo frets or standard frets? Do you like the slimmer LTD neck profile or the Edwards rounder profile which is also barely noticeable. Focus on what matters. Most people on message boards just regurgitate what they read here anyway and have no idea what they are talking about.
Last edited by Finger Cramp at Sep 28, 2011,
#29
dude they are totally made in china and only finished off in japan (unless the high end edwardses are different, which may be true- there was a limited model costing 200k yen fairly recently, and it may have been totally mij at that price). How much finishing off is done in japan, i dunno, but someone at the tokai forum emailed esp and they admitted as much. Richtone, an Edwards dealer here in the UK, also says as much on its website.



I would also point out that only the more expensive eddies like yours have the full nitro finish. The lacquer taste series has a nitro top coat over poly, and the one he's looking at might even just be a poly finish as it's a more modern model.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 29, 2011,
#30
Quote by Dave_Mc
dude they are totally made in china and only finished off in japan (unless the high end edwardses are different, which may be true- there was a limited model costing 200k yen fairly recently, and it may have been totally mij at that price). How much finishing off is done in japan, i dunno, but someone at the tokai forum emailed esp and they admitted as much. Richtone, an Edwards dealer here in the UK, also says as much on its website.



I would also point out that only the more expensive eddies like yours have the full nitro finish. The lacquer taste series has a nitro top coat over poly, and the one he's looking at might even just be a poly finish as it's a more modern model.


No they are not made in China... The CNC milling and joinery are done in China. And the other work is done at an ESP factory. So if ESP is doing the work "in house" who cares where the work is being done. The guitars are assembled and finished by ESP luthiers at one of several factories they have in Japan. If you don't know how much finishing is done in Japan then why are you arguing? I just told you. I think in anyones book that constitutes MIJ.

I'm aware of what features all the Edwards models have... which has laquer, and which has poly.

But I am also supporting an argument which is flawed in the first place. What's wrong with a guitar made in China. The Chinese people aren't capable of building quality guitars? It's peoples perceptions about Chinas manufacturing capabilities that are flawed. It's not 1970. China has aerospace manufacturing capabilities. Its' the price point manufacturers are demanding their products be built too and not giving a rats @ss about quality control. that's the truth.
Last edited by Finger Cramp at Sep 29, 2011,
#31
oh i agree. But the point is for a long time there esp and/or their dealers were pretty cagey about the fact that they were started off in china. Certainly when I bought mine I was under the impression it was MIJ (and to me MIJ means 100% MIJ). If the wood is milled in china it might not be as good wood as is used in the ESPs, for example.

I care if I'm being charged big money which I might be willing to pay if they truly were MIJ. Labour costs are much higher in Japan, too, and I might be willing to pay extra for that. That's my prerogative.

http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/support/brand-information/esp_edwards/frequently_asked_questions.asp

that doesn't sound to me like they're just milling the wood in china. It's saying they're only assembled in Japan. And when things like MIJ Tokais, which are 100% MIJ (as far as i'm aware) are at a similar price point...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#32
I'd like to finish this discussion with a summation I think we can all agree with.... Try before you buy and buy what you like. Don't worry where it's made. Worry about manufacturers who have poor quality control. Some manufacturers got to China and seek the lowest bidder. Some go to China and seek the best builder for their product. Some like ESP build their own factories in China. made in China means nothing. Bottom line go find a guitar you enjoy playing and have fun!
#33
agreed.

I just think it's worth pointing these things out so that the buyers have as much info as possible.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
If Gibson had their Gibson guitar line cut out and painted in China, and then sent to the US for finishing(which I'm guessing "finishing" means fret work), no one would say they are made in the USA.

I don't believe the still do it, but Fender used to actually cut out the guitar bodies and make the necks for the Mexican guitars before sending them down to Mexico for painting and assembly. They never claimed they were made in the USA.

The bottom line is, the Edwards line is made in China. Whatever little work the Japanese do on it, which doesn't look like much, doesn't make it made in Japan.

I'm not saying Edwards are low quality, but they are hardly made in Japan. It seems ESP has found some kind of logical loophole that allows the ignorant and unnecessarily optimistic to believe they are made in Japan.
#35
+1

i think it's japanese law (it's probably the same everywhere, to be fair), if over a certain percentage of the work is done in japan it can be claimed to be made in japan.

but yeah, to me mij means mij.

EDIT: actually if gibson had any sense they'd let the chinese do the fretwork too
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Quote by Dave_Mc
+1

i think it's japanese law (it's probably the same everywhere, to be fair), if over a certain percentage of the work is done in japan it can be claimed to be made in japan.

but yeah, to me mij means mij.

EDIT: actually if gibson had any sense they'd let the chinese do the fretwork too

I thought the PLEKing system was supposed to be the best fretwork available? I've noticed a lot of complaints about Gibsons fretwork.
#37
oh yeah that's true, they're using that now. i'm not sure if they use it on their cheapest models, though? They're the ones i was talking about...

fwiw my framus claims to be plekked, and while the fretwork is very good, i wouldn't say it's the absolute best fretjob i've ever tried.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
My 60s tribute is supposedly PLEK'd and it's one of the cheapest Gibsons. I don't think the fretwork stands above a traditional level/crowing from a good luthier, but I have to say, it's the best factory fretwork of any guitar I own, including my Ibbys.
#39
oh right even on the cheaper ones now? Interesting. I liked how the cheaper gibsons sounded, but hated how they played... if they're plekked now then that would help a fair bit.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
Quote by Dave_Mc
oh right even on the cheaper ones now? Interesting. I liked how the cheaper gibsons sounded, but hated how they played... if they're plekked now then that would help a fair bit.

Well, I have a 60s tribute, so it's not a standard studio. I don't know if being PLEK'd was just because it's a limited run.

You also have to consider if the guitar is setup poorly or not, and how long it's been since it left the factory. My Studio was in my hands less than a month after it left the factory. If it sat in box for a year first, that may have some effect on the frets as well.
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