#1
I know this is probably not the best place to put this, but it's always rather slow going over in the music theory forums. So I'll try my luck here.

Anyway, I'm stuck doing a theory test to get into a music course next week, and I've been given a sample test from my uni that has no answers.
I was wondering if anyone would be able to look at page 5 ofthis (mainly page 5, any more help is great) and tell me what answers they got?
I badly need to see how far off my answers are.


I know the chances of me getting help here are slim, but I'm pretty desperate.

Thanks to anyone who can help
#5
gimme a couple of minutes

stupid assholes don't freakin number the measures
#6
Quote by Xiaoxi
gimme a couple of minutes

stupid assholes don't freakin number the measures



Yeah I stopped once I saw that.
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#7
Quote by Xiaoxi
gimme a couple of minutes

stupid assholes don't freakin number the measures


Thankyou so much

And yeah, that killed me too.
I had to count them through about 10 times to make sure I did it right.
#8
1a. half cadence in the key of G minor

1b. WHAT FUCKING ASTERISK!??
-m15 is Ab in root position
-m16 is Eb7/G, or first inversion, or Eb 4-2 (postscript 4, subscript 2) in classical notation, functioning as a dominant V in the key of Ab
-m35 is Bb, root position
-m36 is F7/A, or first inversion, or Ab7 4-2 classical, just like m16 (goddamnit this test is so stupid)

1c. A and then D minor on the 3rd beat

1d. octave (fuck this test)

1e. contrary (oh..NOW you go back to m9? fuck you)

1f. sequence

1g. WORST FUCKING DESCRIPTION EVER, NO IDEA BECAUSE YOUR TEACHER IS AN IDIOT AND ABOUT AS CLEAR AS PIE

1h. perfect authentic cadence in the key of D minor.
Last edited by Xiaoxi at Sep 30, 2011,
#10
Quote by LazyLatinoRocke
Shouldn't you be posting this in the Musicians Talk forum?


Yeah, I've tried before but I've never gotten any responses in there.
If I didn't get any responses in here, I planned to go there, but I'm getting a better response than I thought
#11
if you have any goddamn clue what the hell your teacher is trying to ask in 1g, lay it out on me.
#12
Quote by Xiaoxi
1a. half cadence in the key of G minor

1b. WHAT FUCKING ASTERISK!??
-m15 is Ab in root position
-m16 is Eb7/G, or first inversion, or Eb 4-2 (postscript 4, subscript 2) in classical notation, functioning as a dominant V in the key of Ab
-m35 is Bb, root position
-m36 is F7/A, or first inversion, or Ab7 4-2 classical, just like m16 (goddamnit this test is so stupid)

1c. A and then D minor on the 3rd beat

1d. octave (fuck this test)

1e. contrary (oh..NOW you go back to m9? fuck you)

1f. sequence

1g. WORST FUCKING DESCRIPTION EVER, NO IDEA BECAUSE YOUR TEACHER IS AN IDIOT AND ABOUT AS CLEAR AS PIE

1h. perfect authentic cadence in the key of D minor.


Thank you so much for that! I'm so glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought it was explained horrendously.
But that's absolutely fantastic, thanks again

Quote by Xiaoxi
if you have any goddamn clue what the hell your teacher is trying to ask in 1g, lay it out on me.


I'm assuming that what is meant is that, since from bar 64, the same pattern recurs until the end. So, he wants to know which of those 4 options best fits the chords in there.
Since it's in the key of F, and assuming you chose option one, the chords you'd expect to see would be Fm, Dm and C.

I'm only assuming that's what he means, since this test is written shockingly.
Last edited by tyler_j at Sep 30, 2011,
#13
2. 2 sharps, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A#, B

3. 4 flats, Ab, G, F, Eb, Db, C, Bb, Ab

4-6, no examples

7. from lowest to highest note:
E major I: 4 sharps; E, G#, B
F minor V7: 4 flats; C, E nat, G, Bb
A major ii: 3 sharps; B, D, F#
Eb major IV/3rd: 3 flats; C, Eb, Ab

8. from lowest to highest (one possibility with proper voiceleading)
A major: 3 sharps; E, B, G#, D -> A, A, A, C#; V7 -> I
G minor: 2 flats; D, C, F#, D -> G, Bb, G, D; V7 -> i
Last edited by Xiaoxi at Sep 30, 2011,
#14
man i ****en wish i knew something about music theory. i told my parents i wanted to take a class on it and they just laughed at me. those assholes.
#15
Quote by sickassfoo
man i ****en wish i knew something about music theory. i told my parents i wanted to take a class on it and they just laughed at me. those assholes.


Same here, dude.
12th grade, I wanted to study music, my dad told me to pick a 'real' subject. 3 years later and a year and a half of accounting later, I'm finally switching to it.
#16
Xiaoxi's answers look good except I think the 1st cadence is an IAC because it is asking for measures 6-7, not just 6. Also, 1st inversion 7th chords are notated 6-5, not 4-2. And for (1g) I'm pretty sure it is the last option, i iv V.

Edit: ^The key is D minor, not F.

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Last edited by OctoberWind at Sep 30, 2011,
#17
Quote by tyler_j

I'm assuming that what is meant is that, since from bar 64, the same pattern recurs until the end. So, he wants to know which of those 4 options best fits the chords in there.
Since it's in the key of F, and assuming you chose option one, the chords you'd expect to see would be Fm, Dm and C.

I'm only assuming that's what he means, since this test is written shockingly.

I think I got it. the last section is in the key of D minor, not F major or minor. The correct answer is the last one.

There's a repetition of d | g, A7 | or i | iv, V

By the way, who the fuck wrote this piece? If your teacher did, HE doesn't even know music. There are so many problems in this piece.
#18
Quote by OctoberWind
Xiaoxi's answers look good except I think the 1st cadence is an IAC because it is asking for measures 6-7, not just 6. Also, 1st inversion 7th chords are notated 6-5, not 4-2. And for (1g) I'm pretty sure it is the last option, i iv V.

Edit: ^The key is D minor, not F.

good call. I just raged and got so light headed from how shitty this test was that I got careless.

Edit, was looking at 5-6. Actually, 6-7 is just a perfect cadence because the melody lands on the tonic. Personally, I hate these stupid names. They're useless.
Last edited by Xiaoxi at Sep 30, 2011,
#19
Shouldn't you be doing your own homework?
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#20
Quote by OctoberWind

Edit: ^The key is D minor, not F.


THIS. Thank you. Jebus. I was too lazy to count out to bar sixty whatever, but I could tell you that it's minor. I'm doing 4 part score or whatever next semester, so my apologies, wish I could help. When looking for minors, look for lots of sharp 7ths, because remember, most minors are harmonic minors. Best of luck with the audition though! Otherwise, just look for phrases that end in what you would perceive to be the tonic.
#21
Quote by Symphonica
THIS. Thank you. Jebus. I was too lazy to count out to bar sixty whatever, but I could tell you that it's minor. I'm doing 4 part score or whatever next semester, so my apologies, wish I could help. When looking for minors, look for lots of sharp 7ths, because remember, most minors are harmonic minors. Best of luck with the audition though! Otherwise, just look for phrases that end in what you would perceive to be the tonic.

You're on the right track but that's just really mushy.

What you really mean is that if you see a lot of raised 7ths in cadential spots, it's most likely in the minor tonality because the natural scalar positions are all lowered (minor 3rds, 6ths, 7ths), and the raised 7th functions as the necessary leading tone into the tonic to sound like a cadence. This is a pretty fool proof perception for basic tonal harmony but gets unreliable once there's more chromaticism and distant tonalities. The life long tip, though, is to think linearly, not harmonically.
#23
Quote by 1201ZJ
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#24
Quote by Symphonica
THIS. Thank you. Jebus. I was too lazy to count out to bar sixty whatever, but I could tell you that it's minor. I'm doing 4 part score or whatever next semester, so my apologies, wish I could help. When looking for minors, look for lots of sharp 7ths, because remember, most minors are harmonic minors. Best of luck with the audition though! Otherwise, just look for phrases that end in what you would perceive to be the tonic.


Yeah, sorry
Just looked at the chart again to write that out and forgot to work out what it actually is


Quote by Xiaoxi

By the way, who the fuck wrote this piece? If your teacher did, HE doesn't even know music. There are so many problems in this piece.


Trust, I thought the same thing.
I sure hope it wasn't the teacher, otherwise, what hope have I got?


EDIT:

In my opinion, which is quite probably wrong, I would have called last cadence a plagal cadence in D minor.
I called it plagal because it seemed to me like the second to last bar was a G to me, which is the fourth of the D minor scale.
I can see how it could be a PAC, what with the last bar containing the notes to make an A, but I thought you would generally use the first notes of the bar?

I'm quite probably wrong though.
Last edited by tyler_j at Sep 30, 2011,
#25
The cadence at measures 6-7 initially resolves to a G minor chord with Bb in the bass, making it inverted. A PAC would need it to be a G.

The next to last measure starts with a G minor or iv chord, but it moves to A major, which is the V chord in D minor, before it resolves to D minor in the last measure.

Edit: ^It doesn't matter which beat the chord falls on.

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Reign, Rain

Call me Drew
Last edited by OctoberWind at Sep 30, 2011,
#26
who learns music theory?

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#27
Don't listen to anyone on the first page saying that Q1 is in the key of F whatever, it's clearly D minor and a perfect cadence from the A to the D

EDIT: infact im not even sure anymore this is ****ing horribly worded
Last edited by Bass First at Sep 30, 2011,
#28
Quote by OctoberWind
The cadence at measures 6-7 initially resolves to a G minor chord with Bb in the bass, making it inverted. A PAC would need it to be a G.

The next to last measure starts with a G minor or iv chord, but it moves to A major, which is the V chord in D minor, before it resolves to D minor in the last measure.

Edit: ^It doesn't matter which beat the chord falls on.


Didn't Xiaoxi also say the first was was a PAC though? (I think he went back and changed his opinion on the first one)
Sorry, I'm just trying to work out which is the correct way, y'know?

Quote by OctoberWind
The cadence at measures 6-7 initially resolves to a G minor chord with Bb in the bass, making it inverted. A PAC would need it to be a G.


But it still ends on a G though, while Bb is the mediant though, right?

It just seems like you're treating the first bar for both cadences differently


Quote by Bass First
Don't listen to anyone on the first page saying that Q1 is in the key of F whatever, it's clearly D minor and a perfect cadence from the A to the D

EDIT: infact im not even sure anymore this is ****ing horribly worded


It's awful.
I thought the cadence there was a perfect cadence in the G minor since it ends on the G and starts with the D, which is the i and the v of the G minor scale.
Both of them end on the tonic note, which I would make it a PAC.
Last edited by tyler_j at Sep 30, 2011,
#29
Quote by Xiaoxi
1a. half cadence in the key of G minor

1b. WHAT FUCKING ASTERISK!??
-m15 is Ab in root position
-m16 is Eb7/G, or first inversion, or Eb 4-2 (postscript 4, subscript 2) in classical notation, functioning as a dominant V in the key of Ab
-m35 is Bb, root position
-m36 is F7/A, or first inversion, or Ab7 4-2 classical, just like m16 (goddamnit this test is so stupid)

1c. A and then D minor on the 3rd beat

1d. octave (fuck this test)

1e. contrary (oh..NOW you go back to m9? fuck you)

1f. sequence

1g. WORST FUCKING DESCRIPTION EVER, NO IDEA BECAUSE YOUR TEACHER IS AN IDIOT AND ABOUT AS CLEAR AS PIE

1h. perfect authentic cadence in the key of D minor.

what?
Why are you including the bass note in your chords if it falls on a different pulse? 1 b in bar 15 would be a major 6 in eb? You're right if you put the Ab under it but it doesn't come with the Eb C Eb chord

But then again, you wouldn't get asked for an Eb C Eb chord, this test is stupid and horribly worded and devoid of asterisks

Who wrote this? Can that shit even be considered as a cadence, doesn't seem to have any significance at all to the piece

EDIT: scratch that just played it in context with the whole piece, it's a perfect cadence in g minor i was only looking at bar 6 before
Last edited by Bass First at Sep 30, 2011,
#30
Quote by Bass First
what?
Why are you including the bass note in your chords if it falls on a different pulse? 1 b in bar 15 would be a major 6 in eb? You're right if you put the Ab under it but it doesn't come with the Eb C Eb chord

But then again, you wouldn't get asked for an Eb C Eb chord, this test is stupid and horribly worded and devoid of asterisks

You have to consider the entire harmony in context with time. Not every chord is completed at once. You also can't perceive everything in relations to the lowest note, which is a shitty practice of jazz/pop harmony and obscures harmonic function. There are no "6ths" chords in classical tonal harmony, as in chords with a 6th extension above the root.

When you see that Eb C Eb, that's just the particular voicing, but essentially you have an Eb and a C, which in the simplest root form, the Eb is above the C, and can either be the 3rd of C or 5th of A or Ab. Since there is an Ab here, regardless of where the A is spatially (below or above the E and C), the harmony is an Ab major chord. So no matter the arrangement of Ab, C, and Eb, the harmony is some form of Ab. It would be entirely ok to only have the upper voicing Eb C Eb in the context of the music because not all chord tones have to be present all the times and is filled in by implied harmony.

I suggest you get a better understanding of harmonic voicings and inversions.
#31
Quote by OctoberWind
The cadence at measures 6-7 initially resolves to a G minor chord with Bb in the bass, making it inverted. A PAC would need it to be a G.

I don't there's really a set answer for that. We could probably just agree that it is an authentic cadence, which regardless of the voicing, is always V -> I. Like I said, these designations have no place in actual practice and is just semantics by textbook writers.