#1
I'm wondering what's so hard about playing fast on guitar?

Songs like Paganini's 5th Caprice, shredding, etc.
What is so complicated about it?

Far Beyond the Sun and Altitudes, these songs were released by musicians at an age of 21 and 19!!! I'm 16 and I can almost, ALMOST play the 5th Caprice at 100bpm and Far Beyond the Sun (and some others COncerto Suite in Eb songs).

I know that if you want to play fast you require a very good, and especially clean technique. But what makes it so hard to achieve? Today I was playing the Caprice and I was missing notes at 100bpm and yesterday I wasn't xD

I know speed isn't everything, but technique is appreciated and valued. How can it be so hard to master?
#3
It's not "hard" per say, it just takes a lot of time because you need to let your muscle memory develop.
#4
Quote by Cavalcade
Absolutely nothing.

What's hard is playing a good solo, not a fast one.



As I expected, people think that just because a solo is fast, it's rubbish. I love slow solos and songs (Howlin' Wolf) and Malsmteen's solos too.

Fast solo can be good, and others (like Batio), can be puure rubbish.
#5
Some problems you'll encounter also has to do with tension in your hands from quicker movements and it's hard because people don't learn to slow down the song and gradually speed up. And when they do, they start making mistakes because they either lose timing or don't think about their notes correctly. You have to know exactly what you're playing

It's incredibly important that when you do make mistakes, you go back and fix them before moving onto the next higher tempo. (Mistakes add up if you don't go back and fix them.)
We're all alright!
#6
The speed alone isn't what makes solos or fast riffs difficult, it's playing fast things accurately that make it tough. Anyone can play fast, only a fraction of people can play accurately while playing fast.
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#7
Building muscle memory. You want your fingers to move from one place to another and another etc. After practicing for a while your muscles remembers the movements more easily and can do it better. Then if you speed up it have to get used to doing it at a higher tempo.

So really it's mostly about building muscle memory.
#8
I'm wondering what's so hard about playing fast on guitar?

Songs like Paganini's 5th Caprice, shredding, etc.
What is so complicated about it?

Far Beyond the Sun and Altitudes, these songs were released by musicians at an age of 21 and 19!!! I'm 16 and I can almost, ALMOST play the 5th Caprice at 100bpm and Far Beyond the Sun (and some others COncerto Suite in Eb songs).

I know that if you want to play fast you require a very good, and especially clean technique. But what makes it so hard to achieve? Today I was playing the Caprice and I was missing notes at 100bpm and yesterday I wasn't xD

I know speed isn't everything, but technique is appreciated and valued. How can it be so hard to master?


... it takes lots of time, effort, concentration and dedication to do it right. That's what hard is.

100bpm isn't really where you have to start investing serious effort. When you start getting the 5th Caprice to 140, that's when you'll feel the pain.

Most performances of that piece are around 180->200bpm btw. Maybe one in ten thousand guitarists will ever put in enough work to play something as difficult at that kind of speed. Let me know if you become one of them.
#9
Quote by YYMMalmsteen
As I expected, people think that just because a solo is fast, it's rubbish. I love slow solos and songs (Howlin' Wolf) and Malsmteen's solos too.

Fast solo can be good, and others (like Batio), can be puure rubbish.

I never said they were mutually exclusive.
#10
Quote by Freepower
... it takes lots of time, effort, concentration and dedication to do it right. That's what hard is.

100bpm isn't really where you have to start investing serious effort. When you start getting the 5th Caprice to 140, that's when you'll feel the pain.

Most performances of that piece are around 180->200bpm btw. Maybe one in ten thousand guitarists will ever put in enough work to play something as difficult at that kind of speed. Let me know if you become one of them.


I know the original piece is 170bpm if I'm not wrong, but anyone must admit, that when you start that song, and enter the world of shredding, even 100bpm can become a thick wall to cross. I suppose everyone has struggled at the beginning on the simplest things. I've just started playing the Caprice. It's not that bad, is it?
#11
Quote by YYMMalmsteen
I know the original piece is 170bpm if I'm not wrong, but anyone must admit, that when you start that song, and enter the world of shredding, even 100bpm can become a thick wall to cross. I suppose everyone has struggled at the beginning on the simplest things. I've just started playing the Caprice. It's not that bad, is it?

It's not bad, but you seem to think that your progress will continue at a similar pace. 100 bpm is just so much less than 190 bpm or even 150 bpm (Jason Becker). When you reach those speeds you'll be struggling for long times to even get 5 additional bpm. Practising to become really fast isn't hard, it's just very time consuming and requires lots and lots of patience.
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
#12
Quote by YYMMalmsteen
I know the original piece is 170bpm if I'm not wrong, but anyone must admit, that when you start that song, and enter the world of shredding, even 100bpm can become a thick wall to cross. I suppose everyone has struggled at the beginning on the simplest things. I've just started playing the Caprice. It's not that bad, is it?


It's pretty bad.

Those arpeggio sections are monstrous, both the opening ones and these horrible things


E||--------------------------------------------------|
B||-----------------------------18----------17-------|
G||--------------------------------17----------18----|
D||-----15----------14----------------18-17-------17-|
A||--------15----------15----------------------------|
E||--17-------17-15-------15-17----------------------|


                                                   
--------------------------------------------------|
-----15----------14----------15----------12-------|
--------14----------12----------14----------14----|
--15-------15-14-------14-15-------15-13-------13-|
--------------------------------------------------|
--------------------------------------------------|


                                                    
-----------------------------18----------17-------||
--------------------------------18-15-------18----||
-----15----------14-------------------18-------17-||
--------15----------13----------------------------||
--17-------17-15-------15-17----------------------||
--------------------------------------------------||


... how are you planning to pick that at 150+ bpm exactly?

It's a really tough piece. I kinda learn a few bars every couple of months but it's still pretty far beyond me to be honest.

And the difference between 100bpm and 150 is HUGE.

Most guitarists can play 100bpm 16ths.

Very few can play clean and consistently at 150 - never mind 3 octave arpeggios and horrible sequences.

Very, very, very few can play in the region of 190, let alone stuff like the 5th Caprice.

It may interest you to know the orginal tempo marking isn't "170" but rather Agitato, which no-one can agree on but it was bloody quick. Here's a score in the composer's handwriting - http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/c1/IMSLP12926-Paganini_Capricci_manoscritto_originale.pdf
#13
any song can be played if practiced enough. hell i could play @ 250/min just give me 2 hours. this is not important.

not everyone can create <-- this is the point. writing music, creating something, a beautiful tune out of nothing is what matters, i believe.
#14
There is nothing important universally, remember our advice is most of the time self justification for the effort and time we have spent doing something, otherwise we couldnt make sense of ourselves, for some speed is important for others it isnt, for some technique is their bible, others play with only 2 fingers..

In the end its really gonna make a difference but not gonna matter!
do what you love, do it all the time, know what you want, put all your heart into it, you will achieve it.
Last edited by Slashiepie at Oct 5, 2011,
#15
Quote by Freepower
It's pretty bad.

Those arpeggio sections are monstrous, both the opening ones and these horrible things

... how are you planning to pick that at 150+ bpm exactly?

It's a really tough piece. I kinda learn a few bars every couple of months but it's still pretty far beyond me to be honest.

And the difference between 100bpm and 150 is HUGE.

Most guitarists can play 100bpm 16ths.

Very few can play clean and consistently at 150 - never mind 3 octave arpeggios and horrible sequences.

Very, very, very few can play in the region of 190, let alone stuff like the 5th Caprice.

It may interest you to know the orginal tempo marking isn't "170" but rather Agitato, which no-one can agree on but it was bloody quick. Here's a score in the composer's handwriting - http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/c1/IMSLP12926-Paganini_Capricci_manoscritto_originale.pdf



I realize that I wrote wrong some information. I'm not interested in the whole Caprice, only the beginning. It's still f*cking hard, yes, but I bet anyone here I will at some point be able to play the piece faster than 100bpm. I doubt that there are more than 50 guitarists in the whole who can PLAY that Caprice at a proper, original speed.
#16
Quote by YYMMalmsteen
I realize that I wrote wrong some information. I'm not interested in the whole Caprice, only the beginning. It's still f*cking hard, yes, but I bet anyone here I will at some point be able to play the piece faster than 100bpm. I doubt that there are more than 50 guitarists in the whole who can PLAY that Caprice at a proper, original speed.



I'm also wondering, and this isn't a frustrated kid talking.. It's more of a philosophical question: how can it be that Paganini WAS capable of such and extraordinary ability that almost no one in years to come could play like him?
#17
He started on the mandolin at age 5, and moved on to violin at age 7. His father forced him to practise for up to 15 hours a day, locking him in his room until his practice quota had been fulfilled.
#19
He actually exploited that myth to his own advantage by dressing in all black during his performances.
#21
^ I think a lot of the time Paganini just didn't deny rumours, I don't know if he was that big on spreading them.

It's also worth pointing out that he was so terrifyingly good he made a guy go insane permanently after seeing him.

(most likely Paganini didn't see the need in pointing out that the guy was insane to begin with tbh )

I'm not interested in the whole Caprice, only the beginning.


What, the bit where you basically shoot up an arpeggio and down a scale as quickly as you can? That's no fun at all.

I had trouble fitting all the notes in, I think you end up flying off the fretboard IIRC... >.>

I'm also wondering, and this isn't a frustrated kid talking.. It's more of a philosophical question: how can it be that Paganini WAS capable of such and extraordinary ability that almost no one in years to come could play like him?


Well, he had a bastard of a father who made him practice lots, and studied under the best teachers available to him. When he surpassed them he kept practising and developing and extending new techniques.

There's no secret - study with the best and work incredibly hard.
#23
Quote by Cavalcade
Nah, everyone knows he sold his soul to the devil. He was like a Baroque Robert Johnson.



ಠ_ಠ

Paganini was 19th century. Baroque music was long gone by then.


Anyway, how could Paganini play so ridiculously well? He practiced like ****. You also have to remember that violin and guitar are totally different instruments, both instruments have their own difficulties to over-come in terms of becoming technically proficient.

Playing fast isn't impressive anyway, it just ends up sounding like mice ****ing since most people have shit tone when they play fast. If you can play fast and still have a nice tone, I'll be impressed
#25
Playing fast is important, otherwise there wouldn't be so many threads on it and so many people concerned about it. Playing fast comes easily for some people, for others, not so easy. I had a friend who had the fasted right hand technique (picking) I've ever seen, he could tremolo pick so fast after only a few weeks of playing that you couldn't even hear the note anymore--just the picking. His, left hand, however was not so good--but it didn't save him from me chopping off his right hand in envy, however, lol.